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How to expose correctly if D-Log is fixed to ISO500 !!??
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raven4
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fans1ae0d041 Posted at 2017-5-7 06:20
Hello,
thank you so much for all your information. I have a few questions I am hoping you can answer. I am no expert so please bear with me as I ask these questions.  I have been reading your posts on DLOG and was wondering if you could tell me:
- what are the IRE for DLOG at 0%, 18% and 90%

Here's the unofficial Dlog Gamma from Ben Turley's LUTCALC. I have no idea if it's still current, but, I assume it is. I am no longer over-exposing Dlog, as long as the ISO is set to 500. I believe this minimizes shadow noise and maximizes hilite detail.

Dlog Gamma

Dlog Gamma
2017-5-7
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CP Anson
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raven4 Posted at 2017-5-7 12:17
Here's the unofficial Dlog Gamma from Ben Turley's LUTCALC. I have no idea if it's still current, but, I assume it is. I am no longer over-exposing Dlog, as long as the ISO is set to 500. I believe this minimizes shadow noise and maximizes hilite detail.

Thank you!
2017-5-7
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nargzul
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Hi,

I've the same kind of "issue" but for the phantom 4 pro:

In order to get the best motion blur, I did fixed the shooting speed to 120(I film in 60fps). I was starting my flight and I just saw that everything was highly overexposed. After some research, I finally found that the ISO was locked to 500.

Also, after retrieving my footage, I definitely see more noise on the image, and for me, it's not worth the small amount of highlight preservation we get.

@DJI-CAO: Is there a way to have the same behavior than before? I was having better results(no noise and footage exposed correctly)? Or is there any workaround?
2017-5-13
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fans3bcd7682
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So the question still stands. How do you properly expose with D Log? The ISO being locked at 500 makes my footage extremely noisy if I overexpose at all.
2017-5-28
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Gybo102
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As I mentioned before, I appreciate the improvements at ISO 500.. but would still like to have ISO 100 for clean footage, even if its at the loss of some DR.
2017-5-29
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raven4
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Gybo102 Posted at 2017-5-29 04:19
As I mentioned before, I appreciate the improvements at ISO 500.. but would still like to have ISO 100 for clean footage, even if its at the loss of some DR.

When one shoots DLOG/cDNG, the files have a flag written to the header that notates that it was shot in Log. That flag is then used in post to alert the NLE. Shooting in STANDARD, which allows variable ISO, is exctly the same as DLOG, except there is no flag written to the header file. I would suggest shooting in STANDARD mode if you want to use ISO 100. Note that none of this applies if you're shooting ProRes. In this case, the gamma applied to the files demand that a DLOG gamma be inversely applied in post.
2017-5-29
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Gybo102
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raven4 Posted at 2017-5-29 05:38
When one shoots DLOG/cDNG, the files have a flag written to the header that notates that it was shot in Log. That flag is then used in post to alert the NLE. Shooting in STANDARD, which allows variable ISO, is exctly the same as DLOG, except there is no flag written to the header file. I would suggest shooting in STANDARD mode if you want to use ISO 100. Note that none of this applies if you're shooting ProRes. In this case, the gamma applied to the files demand that a DLOG gamma be inversely applied in post.

Understood, I should have been more clear, I did mean for ProRes. I dont use RAW all too much, only when I really need it.


DJI, you need to update your X5s product page, still shows 12.8 stops dynamic range at iso 100... and about 11 stops at iso 500. Unless im missing something, The whole reason for locking us into iso 500 (with Dlog) was better dynamic range?

So, if iso 500 is better, your advertisement charts are incorrect.
Mini rant over
2017-5-29
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raven4
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Gybo102 Posted at 2017-5-29 07:05
Understood, I should have been more clear, I did mean for ProRes. I dont use RAW all too much, only when I really need it.

There's a bit of mis-understanding around the issue of dynamic range. While, in fact, there's increased overall DR at ISO 100, the detail stored in the nature of "bits" of data tend to be fairly sparse in the higher end of the gamma curve. In order to improve the detail level in the highs, the way the data is stored with DLOG forces more data bits to be stored for highs, resulting in better highlight detail. This is done, obviously, at the expense of shadow details, which are, typically, not as significant. The net effect is a visually apparent high dynamic range. So, fundamentally, the performance curves DJI shows are not incorrect. There's a lot of very subtle nuances to how data is stored and displayed, especially when 14 or 16 bit data (12 stops) has to be squeezed down to REC709 (6 stops).
2017-5-29
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Barry Goyette
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Gybo102 Posted at 2017-5-29 04:19
As I mentioned before, I appreciate the improvements at ISO 500.. but would still like to have ISO 100 for clean footage, even if its at the loss of some DR.

I shoot almost every day with D-Log at ISO 500, and I've really never found the noise to be objectionable. (and I think I'm a pretty tough cookie). Yes there is some noise, but it's very fine, and largely invisible at 100%.  I also have compared the current D-log at 500 with the old d-log at 100 and I don't see any significant difference between the two in terms of noise. The new D-log, of course has much more linear color and is a proper log gamma, and in every way is superior to the old d-log.

I think it's been said several times here...if you want to expose like it's 100...simply increase your exposure by 2.3 stops. It is the same net effect in terms of noise as DJI creating an ISO 100 version of D-log.

Fwiw. I did a short post regarding exposure for D-log over at RCgroups, showing a relatively challenging scene, waveforms and what that scene looks like, exposed properly in Log and then graded back to "normal". I don't know how you're exposing your D-log, but if you'r getting problematic noise, the first thing I'd be looking at is exposure, because there's nothing wrong with DJI's current implementation.

https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/ ... &postcount=8052

All that said, some flexibility on ISO would be appreciated, but not for the reason you've listed.

Barry
2017-5-29
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raven4
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Barry Goyette Posted at 2017-5-29 17:22
I shoot almost every day with D-Log at ISO 500, and I've really never found the noise to be objectionable. (and I think I'm a pretty tough cookie). Yes there is some noise, but it's very fine, and largely invisible at 100%.  I also have compared the current D-log at 500 with the old d-log at 100 and I don't see any significant difference between the two in terms of noise. The new D-log, of course has much more linear color and is a proper log gamma, and in every way is superior to the old d-log.

I think it's been said several times here...if you want to expose like it's 100...simply increase your exposure by 2.3 stops. It is the same net effect in terms of noise as DJI creating an ISO 100 version of D-log.

Right on, Barry. I do wish DJI wouldn't lock the eV to 0.0 in DLOG mode. If, instead one could set an over/under exposure value, via eV, it would conveniently allow a variable. I have, however, begun to dislike the stepwise shift in exposure in all the auto modes. I am shooting manual, only because it doesn't show these step changes.
2017-5-30
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Gybo102
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Barry Goyette Posted at 2017-5-29 17:22
I shoot almost every day with D-Log at ISO 500, and I've really never found the noise to be objectionable. (and I think I'm a pretty tough cookie). Yes there is some noise, but it's very fine, and largely invisible at 100%.  I also have compared the current D-log at 500 with the old d-log at 100 and I don't see any significant difference between the two in terms of noise. The new D-log, of course has much more linear color and is a proper log gamma, and in every way is superior to the old d-log.

I think it's been said several times here...if you want to expose like it's 100...simply increase your exposure by 2.3 stops. It is the same net effect in terms of noise as DJI creating an ISO 100 version of D-log.

Maybe im not exposing properly at iso 500, but I notice more noise in my footage compared to what DLOG was at 100. The improvements are welcome, I just dont like the restrictive approach is all.
2017-5-30
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raven4
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Gybo102 Posted at 2017-5-30 05:54
Maybe im not exposing properly at iso 500, but I notice more noise in my footage compared to what DLOG was at 100. The improvements are welcome, I just dont like the restrictive approach is all.

What are you using to set your exposure Gybo? My experience is that the auto mode tends to underexpose. So, in post, you have to slightly raise the exposure, which reveals all that (normal) DLOG shadow noise. The old rule for log applies, here, ETTR. Which means it helps to slightly over-expose in DLOG mode. So that, in post, you need to slightly reduce the exposure, which starts to crush the shadows and you never see that shadow noise. I tend to use the histogram to set exposure, putting the peak of the histo in the middle, and, leave a wee bit of headroom above the highest values and the right side of the histo. This has worked fairly well for me.

2017-5-30
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Gybo102
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raven4 Posted at 2017-5-30 06:16
What are you using to set your exposure Gybo? My experience is that the auto mode tends to underexpose. So, in post, you have to slightly raise the exposure, which reveals all that (normal) DLOG shadow noise. The old rule for log applies, here, ETTR. Which means it helps to slightly over-expose in DLOG mode. So that, in post, you need to slightly reduce the exposure, which starts to crush the shadows and you never see that shadow noise. I tend to use the histogram to set exposure, putting the peak of the histo in the middle, and, leave a wee bit of headroom above the highest values and the right side of the histo. This has worked fairly well for me.

I usually will expose +1 to +1.7ev max, I shoot manually. 180 degree shutter rule with either a .6 / .9 / 1.3 ND. I usually dont have to raise exposure in post, but there are times here and there. I make sure to not clip the footage to not loose the top end. most of the time exposure is not too much an issue and I do not need the best dynamic range. I shot the following footage pre fixed iso 500 and in a way wish I never updated.


again, it may be me... but I liked what we had before at iso 100. seems cleaner. I do need more practice still... just been so busy.
2017-5-30
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fans3bcd7682
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Why does my footage look so bad? I'm shooting in D-log, and its still really noisy, no matter what I do with the settings. I've tested EV 0 - +1.7 and it looks terrible. I thought they fixed it?
2017-5-31
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yoengel
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DJI-CAO Posted at 2017-3-5 05:00
Actually the DLOG is improved in the latest FW.

We will soon release a tutorial to help customers correctly handle the DLOG using Davinci Resolve..

DJI-CAO has the tutorial for using D-LOG been released?  I've tried using D-LOG with different exposures and highlights are slightly better than D-CINE but the shadows come out grainy and mushy compared to using ISO 100 with D-CINE.  I've tried overexposing but it doesn't seem to help, and it only clips the highlights.

It seems that D-LOG is suited for shooting during the middle of the day when there's a lot of light.  Since I usually shoot during golden hour and sunrise/sunset, there are a lot of shadows and the grain at ISO 500 is quite distracting.

A lot of the videos I've seen using D-LOG don't really involve a high dynamic range.  Here's an example of what I shoot.  I used D-CINE at ISO 100.



2017-6-4
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raven4
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yoengel Posted at 2017-6-4 18:31
DJI-CAO has the tutorial for using D-LOG been released?  I've tried using D-LOG with different exposures and highlights are slightly better than D-CINE but the shadows come out grainy and mushy compared to using ISO 100 with D-CINE.  I've tried overexposing but it doesn't seem to help, and it only clips the highlights.

It seems that D-LOG is suited for shooting during the middle of the day when there's a lot of light.  Since I usually shoot during golden hour and sunrise/sunset, there are a lot of shadows and the grain at ISO 500 is quite distracting.

Your observation is consistent with the reality of DLOG. Log footage, as you noted, is designed to reproduce high dynamic ranges, like bright sky and deep shadow, all in the same scene. If the dynamic range of the scene is less than 8 stops, you're much better off shooting STANDARD. DLOG achieves HDR by packing data bits into the hilites and sacrificing shadow detail to get to 12.5 stops. Shooting DLOG in standard dynamic range scene wastes available data bits. The easiest way to tell is to look at the histogram. If you';re overfilling the histogram, switch to DLOG.
2017-6-5
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yoengel
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raven4 Posted at 2017-6-5 03:49
Your observation is consistent with the reality of DLOG. Log footage, as you noted, is designed to reproduce high dynamic ranges, like bright sky and deep shadow, all in the same scene. If the dynamic range of the scene is less than 8 stops, you're much better off shooting STANDARD. DLOG achieves HDR by packing data bits into the hilites and sacrificing shadow detail to get to 12.5 stops. Shooting DLOG in standard dynamic range scene wastes available data bits. The easiest way to tell is to look at the histogram. If you';re overfilling the histogram, switch to DLOG.

I see, thank you for the explanation!
2017-6-5
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fans2280709c
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Question... DLOG is only when you're using ProRes and mov.  When using Cinema DNG you don't have the fixed 500 ISO ?
2017-6-6
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Krakozawr
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DJI-CAO Posted at 2017-3-29 05:46
Actually, shooting still in DLOG is not for the photography purpose. It shoots a sample raw for quick grading. Regarding splitting settings of still and video, I agree with you.

нузб just wrote about that to DJI support couple of weeks ago. It's very strange to keep the same shared settings for photo and video.

Regarding D-LOG. As far as I understand, it have alot of sense for 10-12 BIT output but for 8 bit output, like P4PRO's h.264 it is rather useless. I tried to explain it here (with samples from Sony A7R2): https://www.facebook.com/media/s ... =1&l=663d73cb2f
So, I would prefer D-Cine or even TrueColor if my scenery histogram is fit to the range, using D-LOG only in the situation of extreme wide DR.
But maybe I missed something?
2017-7-18
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WellFlightz
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Still that issue?! Thought that was mistake or had been corrected on latest firmwares...well, here's a fool's tip: DON'T UPDATE ANYMORE...at least, till it's clear that there's no issue reported AT ALL!
2017-7-20
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DJI-CAO Posted at 2017-3-8 07:37
The dynamic range of the latest FW is expaned by 0.5ev and the priority of preserving the highlight is increased.

Soon we will provide the demo video and tutorials of dlog workflow.

So. Where is the video you said in march would come "soon"?


2017-8-6
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truthseekers
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Which firmware DIDNT have this problem from DJI. I want to roll my firmware back. Any idea which firmware is just prior to this mess? Thanks.
2017-8-7
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truthseekers
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Just found out I could downgrade my firmware and going back to 1.2.... fixed the ISO LOCK in D-LOG mode, I can now get iso 100 again. There are instructions on how to do this on a guys youtube called   digdat0  Have fun.
2017-8-7
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Flyviewpictures
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any news from dji yet ? i really like to know why in the new firmware of the inspire 2, we are locked at ISO 500 using D-log ? Thank in advance
2017-8-8
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nargzul
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@DJI-CAO Do you have any news? It makes since march that you tell us that you're testing a new firmware with ISO unlocked. The noise prevent me to use D-LOG since then.

Can't wait more to have some news on that part, 5 month with a broken D-LOG is enough.
2017-8-21
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DJI-CAO
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nargzul Posted at 2017-8-21 22:05
@DJI-CAO Do you have any news? It makes since march that you tell us that you're testing a new firmware with ISO unlocked. The noise prevent me to use D-LOG since then.

Can't wait more to have some news on that part, 5 month with a broken D-LOG is enough.

sorry, it's coming with a upgraded cinecore.
2017-10-12
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DJI-CAO Posted at 2017-10-12 09:00
sorry, it's coming with a upgraded cinecore.

release date ?
2017-11-7
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DJI-CAO Posted at 2017-10-12 09:00
sorry, it's coming with a upgraded cinecore.

Me and my collegues have updated one of our birds to new firmware V01.01.0200. Our main concern was NEW D-Log, which still has THE SAME NAME while it is COMPLETELY DIFFERENET from THREE PREVIOUS VERSIONS (there was D-Log for X3, then original X5 D-Log succeded by improved original X5S D-Log, then D-Log 500, and now we got D-Log D-Gamut).

Ist there any offical specs for this new D-log for X5S? I have found D-Log D-Gammut whitetpaper next to X7 camera, in which that X7 is not mentioned anywhere!
https://dl.djicdn.com/downloads/ ... amut_Whitepaper.pdf
While X5 is mentioned in several places in that document - is this whitepaper valid for X5S? Why it is not published next to X5S camera or next to I2 drone?
Then there is new "D-Log to Rec709 LUT" published next to X7 camera - is this LUT valid for X5S as well, and is it calibrated just for EI 1600 as per whitepater?

Our first test of new D-Log brought worst of the problems I have enconter with old X5 camera - when recording low light footage at modest ISO 400 on SD card there is color banding/posterization and flickering are all over the place in H264 recording. Then there was significant ghosting in shadows. Even dalylight footage on fogy day have very strange uneaven colors (some neutrals are pinkish, some are greenesh, some are purple - color balancing is imposible in post as all of these are in the same frame)...  I would gladely share this footage with you but I am still not allowed by the clinet, who still has to decide what should we do with such messy recording. I am very disapointed at the moment.

Do I understand correclty that EI 1600 is beseline sensitivity in new D-Log, while other lower senitivites are derivatives of that base one?
Are there any guidelines for proper D-Log D-gamut exposure and post workflow in Davinci Resolve or Premiere Pro or FCP X?

2017-11-19
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nargzul
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DJI-CAO Posted at 2017-10-12 09:00
sorry, it's coming with a upgraded cinecore.

@DJI-CAO: Any ETA? What do you mean by cinecore? D-CINELIKE? I took my P4Pro for a run today, didn't saw it was in D-LOG, and now there is so much noise in the shadow. This is really hard to get rid off in post production, really need a solution...

Since march that you gave us no solution.

Also, what about a LUT? There was one present before, why could you not release one?
2017-12-20
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fansdb6ff1f7
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nargzul Posted at 2017-12-20 11:30
@DJI-CAO: Any ETA? What do you mean by cinecore? D-CINELIKE? I took my P4Pro for a run today, didn't saw it was in D-LOG, and now there is so much noise in the shadow. This is really hard to get rid off in post production, really need a solution...

Since march that you gave us no solution.

With the latest firmware DLog/ h264 is not usable. This needs to be corrected by DJI as a matter of urgency. Before the latest firmware update I was using DLog fixed at 500 and h264 with no problems. The footage I get from my Mavic is now better than the footage from the Inspire 2 /X5s. Which is obviously absolutely ridiculous.  To get away from h264 I am Tempted to upgrade to a Prores/SSD  workflow but how can I trust that DJI will support this substantial investment in the future? As recorded in posts on this forum, there are several massive issues with both the latest  Inspire 2 Firmware and the Go4 app and for various reasons it is not possible to roll back or workaround to end up with a setup that is stable. Having upgraded to the "Professional" Inspire 2 to avoid the acceptable restrictions of the Mavics' camera it astonishes me that I now have to resort back to using the Mavic. This issue needs to be addressed imieidiately by DJI.
2017-12-22
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raven4 Posted at 2017-5-7 12:17
Here's the unofficial Dlog Gamma from Ben Turley's LUTCALC. I have no idea if it's still current, but, I assume it is. I am no longer over-exposing Dlog, as long as the ISO is set to 500. I believe this minimizes shadow noise and maximizes hilite detail.

Skating are of many types like simple, electronic etc all types of the skating boards and their detail you can have it on HyperOutdoor. There are learning links given on HyperOutdoor for your training. Competition are also held on HyperOutdoor.
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DJI-CAO Posted at 2017-3-3 22:28
To explain the native ISO of DLOG, let's start with exposure.

1. Exposure

Hello,

does it mean that to correctly expose the 18% gray I have to adjust the EV from the DJI 4Go app to zero (0.0)?
Or do I have to adjust it with the waveform and put it on a reference IRE value?

Thank you
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