DJI Mindy Posted at 2017-8-15 21:17
Most of crash accidents are caused by pilot's fault, but if the aircraft has malfunction in warranty, it will be repaired or replaced without any charge.
For your drone, have you contacted our support to start a ticket for data analysis? We will have professional team to try their best to find out the reason of the accident and provide further resolution to you.

Hi Mindy. If as you say DJI investigate the matter, why then did DJI not inform the owner of the outcome of the investigation?
Complete openness and honesty is the norm in the aviation world when it comes to safety - its the only way.
Kind regards
Allan

allanart Posted at 2017-8-16 00:05
Hi Mindy. If as you say DJI investigate the matter, why then did DJI not inform the owner of the outcome of the investigation?
Complete openness and honesty is the norm in the aviation world when it comes to safety - its the only way.
Kind regards

We have data analysis service if the aircraft is crashed for unknown reason in warranty, and the outcome will be sent to end users once it is done, this is how we always do. Sorry that I don't get your point. If customers didn't receive the result of data analysis, we'd love to help to look into the case.

Hi Mindy.
My point is that, at least in this case, the customer was apparently NOT informed of the case of the crash.
I have asked WHY not.

Kind regards
Allan

allanart Posted at 2017-8-16 01:50
Hi Mindy.
My point is that, at least in this case, the customer was apparently NOT informed of the case of the crash.
I have asked WHY not.

I see, thank you for clarifying and we are sorry for this situation, I will look into what happened and try my best to get it addressed as long as he provides the case number.

That's good to know Mindy.
Its clearly nothing directly to do with me, I only raised the matter because the  user concerned specifically said that  no reason had been given.
I have been campaigning since May for a proper solution for the "loose propellers" (see separate thread) and I am somewhat concerned that this *might* have been a factor contributing to this accident.

Kind regards
Allan

so any news about the various crashes?

ukaleq Posted at 2017-9-18 15:59
so any news about the various crashes?

The reason of crash accident should be analyzed case by case, do you encounter the same problem? How can we help you?

DJI Mindy Posted at 2017-9-19 01:54
The reason of crash accident should be analyzed case by case, do you encounter the same problem? How can we help you?

no, I experienced a crash with a phantom in Greenland (I guess it had to do with poor GPS + compass) , and I wanted to buy an Inspire 2 or a Matrice but reading all this I am really not sure any more...

I just crashed an I2 after it began uncommanded yaw, and sudden loss of stability while flying less than 50 feet from me. I managed to lower the landing gear, and the crash left my X5S and lens unharmed. The bird is on the way to DJI in California for analysis and repair.
During the incident, it sounded like one of the motors was speeding up and slowing down. No odd error messages, and no lost props.

the fact that satellite positioning was turned off would be my best guess for you as we are supposed to fly with 10+ satellites outdoors

Hi Dan.

Sorry to hear about your crash.

What firmware were you using?

Did the props wobble at all?

I've seen a few cases where the motor has come away from the carbon fiber arm, mid-flight. This may have gone unnoticed amid the panic with the aircraft spinning out of control and the dismembered motor not looking out of place when laying amongst the wreckage. This seems to be emerging as such a common problem with the I2, that pilots have begun designing their own splint type devices to make sure their motors can't come loose. I have seen a video of this happening mid-flight with the props of the front starboard motor hitting the carbon fiber arm, this could possibly explain the motor obstruction message.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1094576207238891/permalink/1807506742612497/

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1094576207238891/permalink/1809606502402521/

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1094576207238891/permalink/1813168092046362/




Whether or not this was the cause in this instance, it doesn't look good for I2 pilots. For now, I would suggest everyone fly gently if they have to fly until you get some splints fitted.

Fly safe guys

Mark G.

Motor coming off mid-flight.

Altitude Drones Posted at 2017-9-19 07:27
Hi Dan.

Sorry to hear about your crash.

Fully updated with stock props, but the sound of one of the motors has me wondering if there was an ESC failure. It sounded like one motor was speeding, then slowing down.  I almost landed the thing, even though it was fighting me.  I finally had to make a safety call, and dropped the gear, and grounded it hard to prevent any possibility of a flyaway.

Wow.

Does anyone know where I can get some shims please and how much they would cost?

Thanks in advance.

I thought that the motors are attached with screws as well as glue?

Altitude Drones Posted at 2017-9-19 10:36
Wow.

Does anyone know where I can get some shims please and how much they would cost?

These can be 3D printed, here's a link to te file.
Mark G.

ukaleq Posted at 2017-9-19 02:32
no, I experienced a crash with a phantom in Greenland (I guess it had to do with poor GPS + compass) , and I wanted to buy an Inspire 2 or a Matrice but reading all this I am really not sure any more...

Well, accident happens, and there are many possibilities, DJI will be responsible if it is malfunction in warranty period. If you request high quality footage, Inspire 2 would be the best choice.

Mark Guille Posted at 2017-9-19 09:46
Motor coming off mid-flight.

Mark, thanks for your summary. We care much about your feedback and have reported this issue to our engineers for attention.
But wish other users don't be panic, if the motor arm is loose, please provide the serial number to us.

Altitude Drones Posted at 2017-9-19 10:36
Wow.

Does anyone know where I can get some shims please and how much they would cost?

Does your motor arm got loose? If so, please PM me the serial number, thanks.

Dan M Posted at 2017-9-19 10:31
Fully updated with stock props, but the sound of one of the motors has me wondering if there was an ESC failure. It sounded like one motor was speeding, then slowing down.  I almost landed the thing, even though it was fighting me.  I finally had to make a safety call, and dropped the gear, and grounded it hard to prevent any possibility of a flyaway.

Dan, sorry for the accident, could you please provide us the case number? I will keep an eye on the data analysis.

Thanks Mark!

Do you think that using 3M Double sided mounting tape on the inside of the clamps is a good idea? I'm a bit worried they would never come off..

I don't have loose motors or arms at the moment but think that if they did become loose then it'd be a disaster. I like to track cars and bikes at high speeds so this additional support seems a really good idea.

One cause might be excessively strong braking causing very high stress on the motor / airframe link. I think this problem might be in the process of being addressed by reducing the 'standard' braking force especially when sticks are let go inadvertently when the craft is flying at near its max speed.

I think that's highly likely.

Another feasible idea is the props being loose and causing massive vibrations throughout the airframe, particularly on the arms.

I visually and audibly witnessed what vibrating effect loose props can have on the I2. Since I made the fit as tight as possible, I have not had any issues.

Even so, I'm getting some quotes to have the clamps printed as a fail safe.

By looking at the images of the exposed arm joint, there doesn't seem much glue holding the motors on. I'm not an expert and I'm sure they have been stress tested but anything to make the joint stronger seems like a reasonable thing to do?

Altitude Drones Posted at 2017-9-20 06:34
Thanks Mark!

Do you think that using 3M Double sided mounting tape on the inside of the clamps is a good idea? I'm a bit worried they would never come off..

I would imagine the idea of them "never coming off"  would appeal to most people.

Mark G.

Mike-the-cat Posted at 2017-9-20 07:05
One cause might be excessively strong braking causing very high stress on the motor / airframe link. I think this problem might be in the process of being addressed by reducing the 'standard' braking force especially when sticks are let go inadvertently when the craft is flying at near its max speed.

Hi Mike,

I too would imagine strong breaking /sharp maneuvres would not help if there was a weak joint but I have heard from one I2 pilot who had the motor come off in his hand.
Link Here

Mark G.

DJI Mindy Posted at 2017-9-20 00:14
Mark, thanks for your summary. We care much about your feedback and have reported this issue to our engineers for attention.
But wish other users don't be panic, if the motor arm is loose, please provide the serial number to us. Hope you will transfer this info to them and we will keep an eye on all social media platform too.

It would be a bad discovery that your i2 had the "loose arm" midflight. DJI should investigate in depth the root of the problem and be able to say if this can happen to just a batch or to every i2...
We are flying a 3+ kg machine! The consequences could be disastrous. And then I don´t think I would be happy with DJI saying "we are responsible of this malfunction" if I destroyed property or even injure people.

DJI Mindy Posted at 2017-9-20 00:14
Mark, thanks for your summary. We care much about your feedback and have reported this issue to our engineers for attention.
But wish other users don't be panic, if the motor arm is loose, please provide the serial number to us. Hope you will transfer this info to them and we will keep an eye on all social media platform too.

I asked about this once and DJI response was that was impossible to a motor to get loose unless a big shock like a previous crash...

DJI Mindy
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It is not possible the tube got broken for unknown reason in open area during mid-flight unless the drone was crashed something.
I would suggest to do not worry about it, it is solid enough to flight.

https://forum.dji.com/thread-109378-1-1.html

Ale Reynoso Posted at 2017-9-20 10:33
I asked about this once and DJI response was that was impossible to a motor to get loose unless a big shock like a previous crash...

DJI Mindy

So?
What´s the truth?
Can happen in just normal operation?
Has DJI made some test DJI Mindy?

Ale Reynoso Posted at 2017-9-20 10:35
So?
What´s the truth?
Can happen in just normal operation?

At the time when you asked, DJI believed that this was impossible, they are now aware of reports of this happening and are investigating the issue, when they have a definitive conclusion,  they will share it with us.
Not a lot of point asking as it would be unwise for them to comment until they have all the facts.

Sit tight and be safe.

Mark G.

Mark Guille Posted at 2017-9-20 10:52
At the time when you asked, DJI believed that this was impossible, they are now aware of reports of this happening and are investigating the issue, when they have a definitive conclusion,  they will share it with us.
Not a lot of point asking as it would be unwise for them to comment until they have all the facts.

Good points Mark!

Just had a quote back for the clamps to be made in the UK.

£150..

3M Tape costs around £15 then the nuts and bolts so I guess £170.

I'm with Ale, it's more about what could happen if it malfunctioned and caused an injury. I think that if you knew there was an present risk and you didn't mitigate that risk by maybe adding clamps, you could be liable and this could invalidate your insurance.

As Mark mentioned, DJI are likely to be investigating this and come up with a solution. The issue here is that this may need to happen a certain amount of times before it's seen as a common malfunction and then they may decide to supply their own version of a clamp or other method.

This will take time. In the meantime I still need to fly so am ordering the clamps today. I'll post on how I get on.

Cheers

Ale Reynoso Posted at 2017-9-20 10:35
So?
What´s the truth?
Can happen in just normal operation?

That post was replied by myself. And we have not found other users reporting that motor arm caused the crash, that is the the only one we know so far. Then that video was spread and more and more users discuss and exaggerate it.
From Mark's post, I do found several customer reported the motor arm is a little loose, we have no idea it occurs in batch or just exceptionally. Now I'm asking for serial number so that our engineers will make investigation. Please calm down, I still believe the arm is solid enough to fly.

Mark Guille Posted at 2017-9-20 10:52
At the time when you asked, DJI believed that this was impossible, they are now aware of reports of this happening and are investigating the issue, when they have a definitive conclusion,  they will share it with us.
Not a lot of point asking as it would be unwise for them to comment until they have all the facts.

Mark, thank you for your impartial comment, really appreciate that.

As Mindy says, although this is a serious problem there only seems to be less than a handful of reported instances. Good practice would be to make sure the motor mounts are sound as part of your preflight checks. Bear in mind guys, if you don't feel the aircraft is fit to be flown and there is an incident legally, you will be held responsible, not DJI.
Mindy, have you any idea how many Inspire 2 units have been sold worldwide in total as I'm sure the percentage of I2's with this problem is minute.

Mark G.

Mark Guille Posted at 2017-9-21 01:08
As Mindy says, although this is a serious problem there only seems to be less than a handful of reported instances. Good practice would be to make sure the motor mounts are sound as part of your preflight checks. Bear in mind guys, if you don't feel the aircraft is fit to be flown and there is an incident legally, you will be held responsible, not DJI.
Mindy, have you any idea how many Inspire 2 units have been sold worldwide in total as I'm sure the percentage of I2's with this problem is minute.

Mark, I really don't know how many had been sold, this is Pre-sales data and we only deal with after-sales issues, sorry for that.
I have faith on Inspire 2 and it is a good and professional drone, hope every user could make preflight check to make sure the drone is in good condition.

Mark Guille Posted at 2017-9-20 10:52
At the time when you asked, DJI believed that this was impossible, they are now aware of reports of this happening and are investigating the issue, when they have a definitive conclusion,  they will share it with us.
Not a lot of point asking as it would be unwise for them to comment until they have all the facts.

How do you know that Mark?

Ale Reynoso Posted at 2017-9-21 09:48
How do you know that Mark?

Because they have only just found out about this issue Ale.

Mark G.

Mark Guille Posted at 2017-9-21 10:02
Because they have only just found out about this issue Ale.

Mark G.

"They are now aware of reports of this happening and are investigating the issue, when they have a definitive conclusion,  they will share it with us"
I mean, how can you be so sure about this statement? I find "sharing info with customers" a little bit short from DJI. There are a lot of examples of legitimate questions that have been never been answered.
No trying to start an argue, but feeling not so sure about this.
We will check this possible issue as preflight check anyway. I don´t know if it is enough.
And as for DJI, I would like some words ASAP. If I was DJI, I will take several i2, from early production, mid and late production. Pull the motor assembly with full force and see what happens.  If this way some of the i2 just keep the motors on, then I would say to all the i2 pilots: "Don´t worry, this for sure will not happen to every i2, anyway as a preflight check please inspect the arm motor joint looking for looseness and don´t fly the drone if you feel something abnormal and contact your supplier ASAP".
This should be in every i2 buyer´s inbox. There are some i2 pilots that not check so often DJI groups.
If I would have received something like this from DJI, I could have some peace of mind and I´d be thinking we have a product from a company that really cares about their customers satisfaction and safety.

DJI Mindy Posted at 2017-9-20 00:16
Dan, sorry for the accident, could you please provide us the case number? I will keep an eye on the data analysis.

DJI Mindy,

The motors and ESCs all tested out ok. No notable compass or GPS errors.  Crash damage has been repaired, and the flight controller is being replaced.