DJI-Ken Posted at 2017-3-29 06:45
I've sent another email to R&D to look at this thread again as it's growing.

Thanks. Let's hope they can understand our concerns.

Perhaps you could also offer to give @Logger some help with his support case. It seems unfair to me that DJI should claim his crash to be pilot error, considering they removed a valuable safety feature that would have saved his Mavic, and neglected to even tell anybody about the change.

Logger Posted at 2017-3-28 14:21
I heard back from support and they classified  it pilot error. Frustrating part was there was zero acknowledgment of the fact the Mavic started to drift away from a stationary hover mid autoland even though the logs clearly show it occurred. Nor any acknowledgment of the fact I  Ineventually vainly put in full up stick with no response milliseconds before it crashed.

What is your case or ticket# and your email and I'll look into it.

Jason Lane Posted at 2017-3-29 07:08
Thanks. Let's hope they can understand our concerns.

Perhaps you could also offer to give @Logger some help with his support case. It seems unfair to me that DJI should claim his crash to be pilot error, considering they removed a valuable safety feature that would have saved his Mavic, and neglected to even tell anybody about the change.

He said the aircraft was drifting, that's not a function of auto land so I need to see the flight to see if I see anything unusual.

This is just great, I got my Mavic crashed because I accidently slided RH and auto landing.
My mavic was just 1 metre from the ground and flied up to the tree within a second and crashed because I coundn't cancel auto mode in time.....

Can anyone confirm the turning off  "Landing Protection" 100% stops this uncontrollable Auto Landing feature?
If so this is how I would prefer to fly until there is an official fix.

Jason Lane Posted at 2017-3-29 07:08
Thanks. Let's hope they can understand our concerns.

Perhaps you could also offer to give @Logger some help with his support case. It seems unfair to me that DJI should claim his crash to be pilot error, considering they removed a valuable safety feature that would have saved his Mavic, and neglected to even tell anybody about the change.

Jason,
Good news, I just heard back from R&D and the throttle to cancel auto land will be back on the next firmware sometime next month.
Thanks for starting the thread.

VAS67 Posted at 2017-3-29 10:46
Can anyone confirm the turning off  "Landing Protection" 100% stops this uncontrollable Auto Landing feature?
If so this is how I would prefer to fly until there is an official fix.

Yes, turn off protective landing will stop the auto-landing

Lieta F4 Posted at 2017-3-29 09:18
This is just great, I got my Mavic crashed because I accidently slided RH and auto landing.
My mavic was just 1 metre from the ground and flied up to the tree within a second and crashed because I coundn't cancel auto mode in time.....

Can hit the rth button on the rc to cancel, or the pause button should work too. Yeah I stay away from all that auto takeoff and landing stuff.

DJI-Ken Posted at 2017-3-29 19:09
Jason,
Good news, I just heard back from R&D and the throttle to cancel auto land will be back on the next firmware sometime next month.
Thanks for starting the thread.

Nice! Thanks.

Any chance they'll allow the Pause button to abort, too? :-) Just so it's consistent with (I think) every other automated maneuver.

Lieta F4 Posted at 2017-3-29 09:18
This is just great, I got my Mavic crashed because I accidently slided RH and auto landing.
My mavic was just 1 metre from the ground and flied up to the tree within a second and crashed because I coundn't cancel auto mode in time.....

Sorry to hear about your crash. I can see how you could easily tap the RTH button instead of Land, as those on-screen icons are a bit too similar to each other. I personally never use either of those on-screen buttons. For RTH I use the button on the remote, and for landing I just do it manually, with Landing Protection disabled most of the time.

Unfortunately, however, your incident is a bit different from what this thread is discussing. You accidentally initiated RTH, which you can quickly cancel by pressing the RTH or Pause buttons on the remote. As far as I know, this hasn't been changed in the new firmware.

Jason Lane Posted at 2017-3-29 21:20
Nice! Thanks.

Any chance they'll allow the Pause button to abort, too? :-) Just so it's consistent with (I think) every other automated maneuver.

I haven't tried it yet, but I think the first thing you would do is raise the throttle to cancel since your hand is probably already on the stick.

DJI-Ken Posted at 2017-3-30 05:59
I haven't tried it yet, but I think the first thing you would do is raise the throttle to cancel since your hand is probably already on the stick.

This is very good news.  Thanks Ken!

Gary Mac Posted at 2017-3-30 11:15
This is very good news.  Thanks Ken!

No problem, I also like it better being able to hit the throttle and it climbs.

Same problem happened to me, i hitted the propellers and i dont know if it will back to work, I landed into the rocks close to the river that i was filming at
DJI should fix this and respond for the damaged on users that could not land safely

DJI-Ken Posted at 2017-3-29 07:51
He said the aircraft was drifting, that's not a function of auto land so I need to see the flight to see if I see anything unusual.

Thanks for the support guys & Ken I have sent you a PM with my case details.
In between my earlier post here and getting back to this forum I did get response from DJI to my query about the undesired drift.  They said it was "within tolerances of Horizontal: +/- 0.3 m (when Vision Positioning is active) or +/-1.5 m".
I had VPS active and the logs showed it drifted from stationary hover to 0.5 m away in 1 sec, prior to me applying any lateral control input.

I just paid the refresh and got on with it. Because when I saw the sudden drift, I made the error of flying it further away toward a safe spot where it had extra clearance above the water instead of back sticking it. Only then did I remember I could not stop the descent with the new firmware, so with a literal sinking feeling I did back stick so it would be closer to me for recovery from the water allowing it to hit the river back instead of ditching offshore. Had it not drifted it would have landed perfectly safely as it had done in the same spot twice in the previous few minutes. I eventually got full upstick in a nano sec before the collision but it was moot bacuse it was never going to do anything. No video of the crash becuase my SD card was full.

I will just be happy to have another Mavic to be honest as this REFURB unit definitely had issues.
This is the same Mavic 2 weeks earlier.



and http://mavicpilots.com/threads/precision-landing-protocol-question.809/page-2#post-118549

This is clearly way out of any spec tolerances and fully hands off as it drifts away in Precision autoland.

I passes the full logs of this earlier flight on to DJI as part of my incident report but they did not even make mention that they had even looked at it.

Logger Posted at 2017-3-30 21:29
Thanks for the support guys & Ken I have sent you a PM with my case details.
In between my earlier post here and getting back to this forum I did get response from DJI to my query about the undesired drift.  They said it was "within tolerances of Horizontal: +/- 0.3 m (when Vision Positioning is active) or +/-1.5 m".
I had VPS active and the logs showed it drifted from stationary hover to 0.5 m away in 1 sec, prior to me applying any lateral control input.

That video does not look like a precision landing, it looks like it was coming down correctly then something made it move away from the landing zone and it move quite a distance and looks like landing was cancelled and then throttle given to ascend.
I've looked at a few of your flights and I do not see that flight. What is the date, distance, flight time, and max altitude and I can find it that way.

DJI-Ken Posted at 2017-3-31 07:03
That video does not look like a precision landing, it looks like it was coming down correctly then something made it move away from the landing zone and it move quite a distance and looks like landing was cancelled and then throttle given to ascend.
I've looked at a few of your flights and I do not see that flight. What is the date, distance, flight time, and max altitude and I can find it that way.

It doesn't  does it. But it is.
05 March. 6th flight listed that day. Only one Starred that day in flight log.  As I was so shocked with its behaviour at the time I also took a copy of the full DAT from the aircraft and it is sitting in google drive should you want that too.  You will note zero control input from RTH trigger some distance away through out precision landing until after it drifted off rapidly to 30 feet away where I eventually over rode it moments before it would have crashed.
Sorry I assumed you may have had access to the repair case notes  where  I detailed this flight date and linked the URL to the flyDAT.
Ps 3min 66 feet.
PPS and note the Ground plain safe to land message when it is about to crash 39 feet from home point.

Logger Posted at 2017-3-31 11:12
It doesn't  does it. But it is.
05 March. 6th flight listed that day. Only one Starred that day in flight log.  As I was so shocked with its behaviour at the time I also took a copy of the full DAT from the aircraft and it is sitting in google drive should you want that too.  You will note zero control input from RTH trigger some distance away through out precision landing until after it drifted off rapidly to 30 feet away where I eventually over rode it moments before it would have crashed.
Sorry I assumed you may have had access to the repair case notes  where  I detailed this flight date and linked the URL to the flyDAT.

WOW, you have tons and tons of flights. What is the flight distance, time, and max altitude and I can easily look it up.

DJI-Ken Posted at 2017-3-31 11:43
WOW, you have tons and tons of flights. What is the flight distance, time, and max altitude and I can easily look it up.

05 Mar 17,  243ft 3min 66ft.

Logger Posted at 2017-3-31 14:52
05 Mar 17,  243ft 3min 66ft.

I'm sorry but I'm not seeing that flight.
If you are able to screen record the playback with the sticks overlayed and post it that would be great.

DJI-Ken Posted at 2017-4-1 09:28
I'm sorry but I'm not seeing that flight.
If you are able to screen record the playback with the sticks overlayed and post it that would be great.

The video I posted is from about the 1:20 mark when the RTH arrives back over Home Point.

Logger Posted at 2017-4-1 13:58

The video I posted is from about the 1:20 mark when the RTH arrives back over Home Point.

Wow that's a start of a tbe. Look at the curve. Big one though. Mine does it after flying in sport ~1 minute full out. As soon as I switch back, can watch the drone go in tiny to bigger circles. Looked on airdata and it does look like a toilet bowl flush. It recovers pretty quickly though.



But look at the line, it's curved. That's the start of a big one. Guy on here had the same thing happen. He was in some backwoods and it went full tidy bowl like in your video and he semi crash landed it. You press the pause button?

Logger Posted at 2017-4-1 13:58
https://youtu.be/L8uYWbKuPJY
The video I posted is from about the 1:20 mark when the RTH arrives back over Home Point.

Ok I see, I've forwarded your DAT files to R&D for them to review. Your IMU and compass readings are stable right?

DJI-Ken Posted at 2017-4-1 15:32
Ok I see, I've forwarded your DAT files to R&D for them to review. Your IMU and compass readings are stable right?

When you say "Your IMU and Compass readings ARE stable?"  I can only say, YES they were. The Mavic is now drowned and with DJI so cannot check it anymore.  
At the time we pulled the DAT and checked it to see if the landing site was geomagnetically distorted. It wasn't. If it were there would be a Yaw/magYaw separation in the logs.  There were No Compass or IMU warnings. Immediately after the event I actually repeated the flight about 5 times hoping to get a real time  screen recording of it but it did not reoccur again then.  
Next time it started to drift off in a similar manner was a couple of weeks later, when I crashed.

It does clearly show my refurb Mavic was prone to drifting away un-commanded - way above any allowed specification.


The next time it happened (two weeks later) it took me by surprise, I mishandled it, leading to a crash.   I know with 99.9% certaintly that had it not drifted, it would not have ended up crashing. It was hovering stationary 2 feet off the ground about 4 feet  in front of me.  I commanded down stick to land with the expectation it would descend vertically and land like it normally does. It started to do so, then rapidly started drifting away towards the river bank and drop off into river. Looking to me like it would smash sideways into the path right where the footpath dropped 5 feet into the river, or even fly on in to the river. My respsonse was to pitch forward, to clear the obstacle and put my self into the clear position over the river. Did this then realised my mistake as it was still descending . Had been testing the lack of autoland cancel a with the new firmware a couple of days prior so I was aware of it. So the moment I crossed above the river and saw the continuing descent,  it dawned on me I was in this situation & I knew the flight was doomed.  So I had to chose between ditching  offshore = hard to retrieve, or bring it back close against the bank and allow it to crash which is what I did.

DJI in assessing my crash event simply quoted my stick inputs and implied that had I not done them the aircraft would not have crashed. Therefore Pilot Error. Disingenius. They did not at this point acknowledge that the aircraft was drifting (the trigger for my control inputs), nor extrapolate where it would have landed had I kept my hands off the controls, which in autoland would have been a perfectly reasonable thing to do.

Anyway hopefully I will pick up my second refurb tomorrow and be back in the air.

thehippoz Posted at 2017-4-1 14:40
Wow that's a start of a tbe. Look at the curve. Big one though. Mine does it after flying in sport ~1 minute full out. As soon as I switch back, can watch the drone go in tiny to bigger circles. Looked on airdata and it does look like a toilet bowl flush. It recovers pretty quickly though.

[view_image]

"You press the pause button?"


YES - that is exactly what I did to stop it and it stopped rock solid.  What I cannot fathom is, how does the flight control system know to stop dead still & hover with the pause button, while at the same time being stupid enough to allow itself to autoland in this unsafe condition. Flying itself away from landing site at a considerable lateral speed. One would think a simple check "..if horizontal speed is above x then abort autoland" would fix this drift away and land elsewhere issue.  If it had no idea it was drifting away then I cannot see how pause would stop it, as it would not know what stop is.


BTW, this was a few weeks ago with firmware v01.03.0400 when Pause and upstick still worked.
In the interem I updated to v01.03.0500.  So Pause & Upthrottle abort were removed, making them no longer an option when it ultimately crashed. Toggling P/S would have saved my backside but the whole event took 3 seconds and I did not think quickly enough to use it.

Logger Posted at 2017-4-1 19:12
"You press the pause button?"

Yeah you're right, it wouldn't know how to stop on a tbe. Oh well, maybe they will look at your dat again. I can see the guy looking at these crashes, he probably don't care much for the backstory and watches the stick input, marks it user error.

"..if horizontal speed is above x then abort autoland"

If common sense were only common. I write code, but not for a big company. Sometimes deadlines override a good nights sleep, cause you always have murphy's law at the base of what you're writing. This is more a case of bad coding (China, bad code, no way!). There is no user input. Actually a friend of mine said they don't write code, they steal it. (sarcasm in case anyone gets offended)

[UPDATE 2017-04-07] Firmware v1.03.0550 was release a few days ago, and although DJI has promised to fix this in a future firmware, it seems the fix did not make it into v1.03.0550 I haven't have a chance to test it myself, but a few forum members have reported it's still not fixed. (If anybody would like to correct me before I get a chance to test the new firmware myself, please do so.)

DJI-Ken Posted at 2017-3-30 05:59
I haven't tried it yet, but I think the first thing you would do is raise the throttle to cancel since your hand is probably already on the stick.

I think the biggest reason for wanting the Pause button to also work, is the fact that the Pause button works to pause/cancel pretty much every other flight mode I can think of. I've made it a point to train myself to keep my thumb over the Pause button during any automated maneuvers (eg. RTH), or at least to be prepared to quickly reach for it if things go wrong. Maybe I'm alone in this, but it's basically my go-to button for when I want the Mavic to stop whatever it's doing.

Jason Lane Posted at 2017-4-7 07:44
Firmware v1.03.0550 was release a few days ago, and although DJI has promised to fix this in a future firmware, it seems the fix did not make it into v1.03.0550 I haven't have a chance to test it myself, but a few forum members have reported it's still not fixed. (If anybody would like to correct me before I get a chance to test the new firmware myself, please do so.)

That is correct and I have inquired about it.
Also, pause will not stop the auto land either.

Jason Lane Posted at 2017-4-7 07:48
I think the biggest reason for wanting the Pause button to also work, is the fact that the Pause button works to pause/cancel pretty much every other flight mode I can think of. I've made it a point to train myself to keep my thumb over the Pause button during any automated maneuvers (eg. RTH), or at least to be prepared to quickly reach for it if things go wrong. Maybe I'm alone in this, but it's basically my go-to button for when I want the Mavic to stop whatever it's doing.

I'll be taking that tip about having my finger near the pause button. I won't let a active track or home return hurt my feelings and wallet again. lol Thanks

Jason Lane Posted at 2017-3-30 04:11
Sorry to hear about your crash. I can see how you could easily tap the RTH button instead of Land, as those on-screen icons are a bit too similar to each other. I personally never use either of those on-screen buttons. For RTH I use the button on the remote, and for landing I just do it manually, with Landing Protection disabled most of the time.

Unfortunately, however, your incident is a bit different from what this thread is discussing. You accidentally initiated RTH, which you can quickly cancel by pressing the RTH or Pause buttons on the remote. As far as I know, this hasn't been changed in the new firmware.

Thank you, I replaced Gimbal Upper Mount Vibration Dampener Board (Aircraft Aluminium) and also the cable, my MP is alive!

Doesn't anyone see how dangerous this is. You can call this pilot error if they change something like this lol.

I meant can't

jeebs-9 Posted at 2017-4-7 09:52
I'll be taking that tip about having my finger near the pause button. I won't let a active track or home return hurt my feelings and wallet again. lol Thanks

Flying these AC is all about getting to know them reading the manual and continually referring to it, there are many ways to get yourself out of trouble, being able to read telemetry and feeling comfortable that you have the knowledge what to do when things go wrong..

Today was a beautiful day and I was thinking that I want to test programs that I never had used before.
So my test today was to test the Home Lock feature.

Everything went well, but when after 7 minutes and 50 seconds flight time (100 m from home and around 44 m altitude), I decided that I want to fly little bit lower.
So I started to decent but I was surprised when I suddenly notify that the remote controller tell me that Mavic was landing.
I didn't understand why it should start the auto landing, but I pushed the stick up without any response.
I then tried to cancel using the Pause button but i still was in auto land program. I then tried the RTH button without any luck.
The only thing i didn't try was to set it to sport mode.

The result was a crash landing and one crushed propeller. I found my Mavic upside down beside some plants.
I was little upset and thought this is a pilot error, but I'm not sure after I have read this thread.
My Mavic was updated to Firmware v1.03.0550

Here is the flight information from today: http://app.airdata.com/main?share=yUxaWD

What upset me was that I had no control of the Mavic and where it was landing.
It could be people / cars / building under the drone that could have been hurt / damaged.
Or I could have fly over water and drown the Mavic.

Please fix this DJI since this is not a feature that I want.
I should have the possibility cancel the auto landing since we have the Pause button on the remote.
And why was it suddenly in auto landing program when I was flying around 44 m up in the air just that I pushed the stick down little bit.

Jason Lane Posted at 2017-4-7 07:44
Firmware v1.03.0550 was release a few days ago, and although DJI has promised to fix this in a future firmware, it seems the fix did not make it into v1.03.0550 I haven't have a chance to test it myself, but a few forum members have reported it's still not fixed. (If anybody would like to correct me before I get a chance to test the new firmware myself, please do so.)

I'm sorry it was not in the last firmware, it will be in the next firmware coming very soon.But the pause button will not cancel auto landing as it's only for the intelligent flying modes.

DJI-Ken Posted at 2017-4-10 06:11
I'm sorry it was not in the last firmware, it will be in the next firmware coming very soon.But the pause button will not cancel auto landing as it's onkly for the intelligent flying modes.

"But the pause button will not cancel auto landing as it's only for the intelligent flying modes."

That's not true. The Pause button works to abort the Autolanding that's initiated by the app, and it also aborts RTH at any stage of flight, including the landing at the end of an RTH.

hallmark007 Posted at 2017-4-8 12:40
Flying these AC is all about getting to know them reading the manual and continually referring to it, there are many ways to get yourself out of trouble, being able to read telemetry and feeling comfortable that you have the knowledge what to do when things go wrong..

Are kidding me with that? I've have read the manual more then enough times (both versions). But if the drone doesn't let you put input when it going into auto land. When it did for at least 4 months. That's bad design.  Your taking control away from the users. We can shut off the motors mid flight and then turn them back on. But we can't stop a auto landing by throttling up. That should be a given. Even a Vet pilot could make the mistake of flying it one way for months. To them making a small change like this. And your telling its the pilot fault. Man I didn't know people were so ruthless.
And lets not get into the pause button not being able to stop it. The pause button should stop everything!

Jason Lane Posted at 2017-4-10 09:06
"But the pause button will not cancel auto landing as it's only for the intelligent flying modes."

That's not true. The Pause button works to abort the Autolanding that's initiated by the app, and it also aborts RTH at any stage of flight, including the landing at the end of an RTH.

We'll wait and see, I'm talking about pressing the stop button after you've closed the throttle stick.
That is what they have said, new firmware will be out shortly.
And I know the stop button stops a RTH, I was only talking about when the aircraft goes into auto land by lowering the throttle during hover.

jeebs-9 Posted at 2017-4-10 10:44
Are kidding me with that? I've have read the manual more then enough times (both versions). But if the drone doesn't let you put input when it going into auto land. When it did for at least 4 months. That's bad design.  Your taking control away from the users. We can shut off the motors mid flight and then turn them back on. But we can't stop a auto landing by throttling up. That should be a given. Even a Vet pilot could make the mistake of flying it one way for months. To them making a small change like this. And your telling its the pilot fault. Man I didn't know people were so ruthless.
And lets not get into the pause button not being able to stop it. The pause button should stop everything!

Thought you crashed your drone because you didn't have prop on correctly?