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Side obstacle avoidance error causes crash
1972 33 2017-3-29
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dcobb23.me
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I'm a pilot with 5 years experience. Obstacle avoidance is something new in my world, so I tested the system and found that the side radar causes the drone to stop and not respond to input. I had to go over and literally grab the drone to move it away from the test fence. So for most situations I have it turned off. However, this flight I was flying around paddleboarders and boats so I wanted to be safe. However, taking off on a boat, there was a cable 2' to the left of my flight path. As the drone passed the cable it stopped moving, started beeping and stopped responding to all input. I never would have thought a 1/4" cable would even register with the radar. Before I could figure out what was happening a  gust of wind blew the drone into the cable, it fell (luckily on the dry side of the boat) 4-5' and broke the camera mount. Now I'm getting a bill from repair that says I owe $328 to fix this.

Has anyone else had this problem? Does this seem like a design error? Do you think this should be a warranty repair?
2017-3-29
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Brian Fist
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I have never had it just "stop dead" because it "saw" something in OA.  Now if I was moving left and something was on the left side and it saw it, it would stop going in the direction of the obstacle.  But if I was moving parallel to the object and it saw it it wouldn't stop the bird from moving forward.
2017-3-29
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Brian Fist
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I have never had it just "stop dead" because it "saw" something in OA.  Now if I was moving left and something was on the left side and it saw it, it would stop going in the direction of the obstacle.  But if I was moving parallel to the object and it saw it it wouldn't stop the bird from moving forward.

Now, are you sure it didn't stop because that was the direction you told it to move in?  If so and if it "saw" something in it's path, it stopped as it was supposed to.  And in that case a gust of wind blowing it into such and object would be considered pilot error.

2017-3-29
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DJI-Jamie
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Could you happen to provide your case number so I can look into this?
2017-3-29
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Antonio76
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What mode were you flying? Infrared is only active in Beginner mode and in Tripod mode, so if from the logs (did you provide the logs, didn't you?) they saw that at the moment of the crash your P4P was not in one of those modes, then the repair would not be covered by warranty...
2017-3-30
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hallmark007
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Side obstacle avoidance only works in beginner mode and tripod mode, and once you direct it away from obstacle it will fly away, you shouldn't have to grab hold of it.
Regarding the wire on the boat maybe it did see it and stop, all you need to have done is back the aircraft up and out of range of the obstacle.
It also takes a good gust of wind to move the p4pro, and if this is what happened to cause your crash, then it might turn out to be your fault.
2017-3-30
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lefgrter
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For cases like that there you can use "narrow sensing" function on C1 or C2 button, or just turn off sensors.  It happened to me flying indoors and the AC got frozed and couldn't go anyware. Narrow sensing usage allowed it to continue.
2017-3-30
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hallmark007
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You should upload your log here and post the link you might be able to find out what went wrong. http://www.phantomhelp.com/Phantom-4/#DataLog
2017-3-30
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method007
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You definitely need to upload logs.  The side sensors only work in certain modes as many people have mentioned already.
2017-3-30
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dcobb23.me
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hallmark007 Posted at 2017-3-30 09:40
Side obstacle avoidance only works in beginner mode and tripod mode, and once you direct it away from obstacle it will fly away, you shouldn't have to grab hold of it.
Regarding the wire on the boat maybe it did see it and stop, all you need to have done is back the aircraft up and out of range of the obstacle.
It also takes a good gust of wind to move the p4pro, and if this is what happened to cause your crash, then it might turn out to be your fault.

Thanks for all the feedback!
I definitely wasn't in beginner mode. I was flying in an obstacle heavy environment so I had it on. I will probably keep it turned off from now on. I've flown for 5 years without it. Kinda stinks when it isn't your fault but it still costs $400 to repair. It was 2 weeks old. Fffffffff!!!!!!
I'm wondering if I shouldn't just get it back and sell the parts and buy a new one. I did that with my P3 and in the end saved myself $600. DJI wanted more to repair the old one then they were selling new. I'm friends with the old head of repair and DJI sees repair as a revenue stream. Of course they do!.
2017-3-31
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dcobb23.me
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DJI-Jamie Posted at 2017-3-29 16:55
Could you happen to provide your case number so I can look into this?

Really? Thanks Jamie!

CAS-512956-T8YZQ7
2017-3-31
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dcobb23.me
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Brian Fist Posted at 2017-3-29 14:06
I have never had it just "stop dead" because it "saw" something in OA.  Now if I was moving left and something was on the left side and it saw it, it would stop going in the direction of the obstacle.  But if I was moving parallel to the object and it saw it it wouldn't stop the bird from moving forward.

Now, are you sure it didn't stop because that was the direction you told it to move in?  If so and if it "saw" something in it's path, it stopped as it was supposed to.  And in that case a gust of wind blowing it into such and object would be considered pilot error.

It definitely stopped dead. I was full stick forward and away from the obstacle. By the time I figured out what was going on it was too late. I could have run over and grabbed it!
2017-3-31
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P4P+
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Have to go into ati mode to gain control, then after flying to a clear area switch back into p mode.
2017-3-31
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Labroides
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dcobb23.me Posted at 2017-3-31 15:30
Thanks for all the feedback!
I definitely wasn't in beginner mode. I was flying in an obstacle heavy environment so I had it on. I will probably keep it turned off from now on. I've flown for 5 years without it. Kinda stinks when it isn't your fault but it still costs $400 to repair. It was 2 weeks old. Fffffffff!!!!!!
I'm wondering if I shouldn't just get it back and sell the parts and buy a new one. I did that with my P3 and in the end saved myself $600. DJI wanted more to repair the old one then they were selling new. I'm friends with the old head of repair and DJI sees repair as a revenue stream. Of course they do!.

"I definitely wasn't in beginner mode."
Since Side obstacle avoidance only works in beginner and tripod modes, unless you were in tripod mode, there was no side obstacle avoidance to have an error so the title and premise of the thread is a mistake.
2017-3-31
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Labroides Posted at 2017-3-31 16:51
"I definitely wasn't in beginner mode."
Since Side obstacle avoidance only works in beginner and tripod modes, unless you were in tripod mode, there was no side obstacle avoidance to have an error so the title and premise of the thread is a mistake.

By the way, here we also need to say that the whole "5 directions obstacle avoidance" thingy could be addressed as false advertising. Personally, this is one of the reasons I chose P4P over Mavic, only to find out that... well.. it's not.

2017-3-31
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dcobb23.me
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P4P+ Posted at 2017-3-31 16:49
Have to go into ati mode to gain control, then after flying to a clear area switch back into p mode.

It happened in about 7 seconds so there was no time to react. Only Thinking back to my initial testing did I realize what happened. I've had fly always but never had the controls lock out. Good to know atti turns it off.
2017-3-31
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dcobb23.me
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betonven Posted at 2017-3-31 17:28
By the way, here we also need to say that the whole "5 directions obstacle avoidance" thingy could be addressed as false advertising. Personally, this is one of the reasons I chose P4P over Mavic, only to find out that... well.. it's not.

I worked on the "tap fly" tutorial video for DJI, and technically was the first civilian to fly the P4 at Switzerl Falls. The software had just been released that morning and it was 5:00 AM call. We were supposed to tell the drone to fly to this bridge using tap fly, and in theory the radar would navigate thru the creek bed. Yeah right.

A little drone lore::That was a job thru Cinedrones and one of the jobs I did for them that never got paid for. They were the contract shop for DJI till word about this got around:

https://m.yellowpages.com/orlando-fl/mip/cinedrones-483801754

Mike burned A LOT of pilots I know. Beware.

I should get my P4P fixed just for that job,  
2017-3-31
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dcobb23.me
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dcobb23.me Posted at 2017-3-31 15:32
Really? Thanks Jamie!

CAS-512956-T8YZQ7

Hey Jamie, checking in to see if you had a chance to look at my file. As of this point my P4 sits in limbo and I have jobs coming up where I'll need it.

Thank you!
Drew
2017-4-3
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hallmark007
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dcobb23.me Posted at 2017-4-3 18:19
Hey Jamie, checking in to see if you had a chance to look at my file. As of this point my P4 sits in limbo and I have jobs coming up where I'll need it.

Thank you!

I have to say you seem to be talking through your hat here, you haven't answered any of the relevant questions, have made no attempt to put up your flight log, but continue to blame dji or their AC for your woes.
With all your experience this should be quite common for you.
2017-4-4
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Sestaceans
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dcobb23.me Posted at 2017-4-3 18:19
Hey Jamie, checking in to see if you had a chance to look at my file. As of this point my P4 sits in limbo and I have jobs coming up where I'll need it.

Thank you!

@dcobb23,
You're asking the right person in Jamie.  Let him look at your log and file as he will give you an unbiased opinion based on his vast experience (though you seem to know the name of the game  ).   
2017-4-4
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hallmark007
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Sestaceans Posted at 2017-4-4 02:53
@dcobb23,
You're asking the right person in Jamie.  Let him look at your log and file as he will give you an unbiased opinion based on his vast experience (though you seem to know the name of the game avoiding the salivates ).

Maybe you should accept dji's assessment of your own crash.
2017-4-4
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Glimmerman
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2017-4-4
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dcobb23.me
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hallmark007 Posted at 2017-4-4 02:04
I have to say you seem to be talking through your hat here, you haven't answered any of the relevant questions, have made no attempt to put up your flight log, but continue to blame dji or their AC for your woes.
With all your experience this should be quite common for you.

What "relevant" questions have been asked? I uploaded my flight log thru the app when I submitted my claim, but this is my first time on this forum. I haven't crashed a drone since my early days so this app/forum is all pretty new. I went to that page someone provided a link to and it was exactly clear on how to upload flight logs. And this forum is pretty difficult to navigate on my phone. So snotty comments are not appreciated. You want to help, do so.

Jamie offered to look into it. I thought that was the extent of what I needed to do. Is he looking internally? Is he a DJI employee?
2017-4-4
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dcobb23.me
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Brian Fist Posted at 2017-3-29 14:06
I have never had it just "stop dead" because it "saw" something in OA.  Now if I was moving left and something was on the left side and it saw it, it would stop going in the direction of the obstacle.  But if I was moving parallel to the object and it saw it it wouldn't stop the bird from moving forward.

Now, are you sure it didn't stop because that was the direction you told it to move in?  If so and if it "saw" something in it's path, it stopped as it was supposed to.  And in that case a gust of wind blowing it into such and object would be considered pilot error.

No, I was moving past the cable (which was 2' to my left), not toward it. I understand how the obstacle avoidance is supposed to work. But the problem was the drone literally just stopped, would not respond to input to continue forward or move away from cable and allowed wind to push it into it.

I thought I made the pretty clear in my description. I'm not an idiot and have owned and flown countless drones.
2017-4-4
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hallmark007
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dcobb23.me Posted at 2017-4-4 08:49
What "relevant" questions have been asked? I uploaded my flight log thru the app when I submitted my claim, but this is my first time on this forum. I haven't crashed a drone since my early days so this app/forum is all pretty new. I went to that page someone provided a link to and it was exactly clear on how to upload flight logs. And this forum is pretty difficult to navigate on my phone. So snotty comments are not appreciated. You want to help, do so.

Jamie offered to look into it. I thought that was the extent of what I needed to do. Is he looking internally? Is he a DJI employee?

There were many, relevant questions which you never answered,

One example I will give you, you said side obstacle avoidance stoped your aircraft dead but you also wen on to say you weren't in beginner mode, so as this AC goes you can't have side obstacle avoidance on unless your in beginner mode or tripod.

So let's say this is what happened, then there is some sort of malfunction with obstacle avoidance, so you post here on this forum, and others are keen to know if there might be a problem for them in the future, so they can learn from your experience, so you posted and some asked for you to post your logs, and with your self confessed experience, I would have thought this would not have been a difficulty for you.
You came to the forum to ask for help and others were willing to help you, you decided not to take them up on that, so maybe Dji Jamie will take a look at your logs you sent to dji and come back and tell us that there is or is not a problem with side obstacle avoidance stopping dead when it should not have been on in the first place.
Regards being snotty , take a look again at your posts they don't make a huge amount of sense and there are a lot of things you said just don't add up, so yes I think regarding some of your posts you are talking through your hat.
2017-4-4
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dcobb23.me
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hallmark007 Posted at 2017-3-30 09:40
Side obstacle avoidance only works in beginner mode and tripod mode, and once you direct it away from obstacle it will fly away, you shouldn't have to grab hold of it.
Regarding the wire on the boat maybe it did see it and stop, all you need to have done is back the aircraft up and out of range of the obstacle.
It also takes a good gust of wind to move the p4pro, and if this is what happened to cause your crash, then it might turn out to be your fault.

Not sure how many ways I can say this so you'll understand it. Drone passes cable. Stops. Will not respond to stick input. Wind blows drone into cable. Drone falls on boat deck. Breaks gimbal.

I just spent the last hour trying to upload the flight records, but on IOS there's no way to access anything but photos, and there's no way to save the flight records to the photo file.
2017-4-4
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dcobb23.me
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method007 Posted at 2017-3-30 09:48
You definitely need to upload logs.  The side sensors only work in certain modes as many people have mentioned already.

I just spent an hour trying to upload the flight logs. In the app the only option is to upload a photo, but there's no way to save the flight log as a photo. Not sure how to work around this?
2017-4-4
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hallmark007
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Just a few points

1/ I had to go over and grab the AC away from the fence , if you did this it would just go straight back unless you turned it off or took control with remote.

2/ post 1 it will cost me $328/ in post number 10 but it still cost me $400/

3/ post 1 obstacle avoidance is new in my world, post 17, first civilian to fly P 4 at switzer fall. Well then you would have known P4 has obstacle avoidance.
2017-4-4
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hallmark007
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dcobb23.me Posted at 2017-4-4 10:00
Not sure how many ways I can say this so you'll understand it. Drone passes cable. Stops. Will not respond to stick input. Wind blows drone into cable. Drone falls on boat deck. Breaks gimbal.

I just spent the last hour trying to upload the flight records, but on IOS there's no way to access anything but photos, and there's no way to save the flight records to the photo file.

If you read my post I'm not doubting what happened to you, but if it happened the way you said it did then it shouldn't have, and I thought that was the problem you were trying to sort out, if dji have already got your Aircraft and given you a price, then you should already know what their decision was.
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dcobb23.me
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hallmark007 Posted at 2017-4-4 10:20
Just a few points

1/ I had to go over and grab the AC away from the fence , if you did this it would just go straight back unless you turned it off or took control with remote.

When grabbing the drone, I shut the motors down. I almost always catch my Phantoms and usually catch my inspire to avoid dust getting in.

I flew the P4 (not pro) which didn't have side avoidance and that situation did not present itself.

$328, I probably transposed in my mind making it $382. Oops.

You're probably right. DJI will do whatever they feel like and as I said I knew the old repair manager, DJI views fixing drones as a revenue stream, not a service to their clients. That came straight from him (I reserve his privacy) I love DJI's products, but not their corporate policies. They're basically cannibalizing the industry they helped create. I've talked to so many producers, and fellow pilots  who said DJI came in a shot production for free. That's putting guys like me out of work. It's almost impossible to find a dealer in LA who carries their products because there's hardly any money to be made.

I'm one of many who are retooling their approach, and going away from making aerials my main source, thus buying less drones and getting back to camera work. Greed is always short sited.
2017-4-4
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dcobb23.me Posted at 2017-4-4 11:38
When grabbing the drone, I shut the motors down. I almost always catch my Phantoms and usually catch my inspire to avoid dust getting in.

I flew the P4 (not pro) which didn't have side avoidance and that situation did not present itself.

Sorry to hear about your drone man.  Terrible feeling.   
See if this helps:
Plug your iPhone into MAC and run iTunes.

When your device appears in iTunes at top of screen, click on this.

Under 'Summary' click on 'Apps'

Scroll down the main page and you'll see a section called 'file sharing', in there click on the DJI GO App, to the right you will see a list appear, in that list is a folder called 'Flight Records', click on this and then click on 'save' at the bottom of the list. This then gives you the option to save a copy of this flight record folder. Once done open up folder from the saved position and you will see all your flight record files.

This may be dated, let me know.   
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dcobb23.me
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Heir InVioLable Posted at 2017-4-4 12:13
Sorry to hear about your drone man.  Terrible feeling.   
See if this helps:
Plug your iPhone into MAC and run iTunes.

Thanks for the suggestion. I was able to get thru this part of the process no problem, it's uploading the data. When I click on upload, the only options it gives me is to upload a photo. I can't save the flight records as photos. Not sure how to go further.
2017-4-4
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Heir InVioLable
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dcobb23.me Posted at 2017-4-4 13:27
Thanks for the suggestion. I was able to get thru this part of the process no problem, it's uploading the data. When I click on upload, the only options it gives me is to upload a photo. I can't save the flight records as photos. Not sure how to go further.

I had this same issue.  I was told to access it through the DJIGo regular application NOT the DJI Go4 application which in turn dowloaded a picture (like your case).  It if it makes you feel better,  DJI wasn't able to upload it either, so I'm not sure what the solution is.  Please let me know if you figure it out.
2017-4-5
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dcobb23.me Posted at 2017-4-3 18:19
Hey Jamie, checking in to see if you had a chance to look at my file. As of this point my P4 sits in limbo and I have jobs coming up where I'll need it.

Thank you!
Pardon the late response. At the moment, they're still performing a re-evaluation to better verify the claim. The NA facility is getting ready to move to a more efficient facility for the increasing repair workflow, so data analysis is a tad delayed. You shouldn't however be waiting for an official answer from the Repair team much longer. I apologize for the inconvenience.

Just to answer one of your other posts, yes I am an employee that can see internally to an extent. The info you provided wasn't "left to the wind", sort of speak.
2017-4-5
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