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Forward sensor issue
1075 27 2017-5-15
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Parkker
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Fairly new Mavic operator here. Just noticed when flying the other day that sometimes the forward sensor will cause the craft to behave as though it has sensed an obstacle when none exists. I was unable to make reasonable forward progress as it would continually halt itself. I have heard it does this because of the suns position relative to the craft.
If I understand correctly when "Smart Return Home" is enabled it will enable obstacle avoidance even if it is disabled on the other setting. Is that true? If so it would seem very risky to have this enabled as ones Mavic could find itself getting nowhere fast depending on which direction is home in relation to suns position.
Does DJI have any data on this? For example, range of suns angles relative to craft in which forward obstacle avoidance becomes a no go?
2017-5-15
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DroneFlying
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You're correct: having OA enabled can at least theoretically delay or even prevent RTH from completing, though I have to admit that I can't recall offhand a specific case where it was clear that actually happened. And I don't believe I've seen any specifics from DJI on the problem other than an acknowledgment that it exists, so I don't expect that you'll get the kind of detailed information you're asking about.
2017-5-15
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fansf250a652
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2017-5-15
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fansf250a652
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2017-5-15
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Matt-and-Riley
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fansf250a652 Posted at 2017-5-15 17:29
If you keep your AC in LOS then you can adjust the path or angle of the AC in case it stop. Last month I purposely put the AC retun home facing the sun and an performed and RTH and it came back without an issue. Hope this might help!

I looked through your posts and you don't appear to own a Mavic, you're waiting for one? Do you mind if I ask you why are posting in a Mavic forum when you don't own one? Wouldn't want to take advice from someone who doesn't know what they're what their talking about.

lol - hi dronist
2017-5-15
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UCBarkeeper
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i fly a lot with the sun in my back. i knew about this sun issue already and it is still scary. i basically stopped use RTH and toggle sports mode on.
but if you lose videofeed due to the cable issue and are low on battery, this is scary as fck.
2017-5-16
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patman89
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Maybe you can add a kind of lens hood? Or how wide is the angle of the OA cameras at the front? Would this affect the functionality?

It would become dangerous if your RC looses the connection and the drone enters RTH automatically. So you have no chance to influence the path. If it comes to halt because of obstacle sensing, sooner or later it starts to auto-landing where it is.
2017-5-16
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Parkker
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I don't use RTH other than initial testing. I just realized when flying it normally (not RTH mode) that it would sometimes do false positive OA action and realized this could be a potential problem if ever the RTH was used for whatever reason (problem with craft manual control etc.) This is why I decided not to rely on OA much other than special circumstance maybe flying indoors etc. I just don't want it to become active and disrupt a video right in the middle or something like that.
2017-5-16
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M K ULTRA
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For what its worth, my Mavic's OA has activated on a few occasions regardless of it's orientation to the Sun...It would just stop for no obvious reason. There it would be, hovering a 100' in the air with not a damn thing in front of it.
2017-5-16
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TrollsSlayer
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2017-5-16
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Jenee 2
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I have all the OA turned on and since firmware ipdate .0600 I have not had an issue with the sun. Now have .0700 and still no issue.
2017-5-16
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out2sea71
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I have used RTH as well as flying the AC manually.  In one experience, the OA kicked in during RTH and flew 50 higher to avoid a tree without any intervention.  Last month I trashed the AC because I was expecting the same maneuver but it plowed into the obstacle at 23 mph.  If there is a setting change I would also like to know about it.  
2017-5-16
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Parkker
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You have to turn off both forward OA AND "Smart RTH" feature. 2 separate settings.
2017-5-17
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UCBarkeeper
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out2sea71 Posted at 2017-5-16 20:36
I have used RTH as well as flying the AC manually.  In one experience, the OA kicked in during RTH and flew 50 higher to avoid a tree without any intervention.  Last month I trashed the AC because I was expecting the same maneuver but it plowed into the obstacle at 23 mph.  If there is a setting change I would also like to know about it.

set your rth altitude higher than any obstacles... at least that is what i'm doing.
2017-5-18
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SkunkWerxs
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Jenee 2 Posted at 2017-5-16 20:19
I have all the OA turned on and since firmware ipdate .0600 I have not had an issue with the sun. Now have .0700 and still no issue.

Jenee 2,  It's one of those things where everything has to be just right for example, angle of the sun hitting  
              the forward OA sensors justtttt righttttt --- My Mavic seldomly does it but it does happen
       I'm replying to your post just so you are aware it can happen and you won't be caught off guard
FlySafe-FlyFree      
2017-5-18
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SkunkWerxs
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out2sea71 Posted at 2017-5-16 20:36
I have used RTH as well as flying the AC manually.  In one experience, the OA kicked in during RTH and flew 50 higher to avoid a tree without any intervention.  Last month I trashed the AC because I was expecting the same maneuver but it plowed into the obstacle at 23 mph.  If there is a setting change I would also like to know about it.

out2sea71, The reason the Mavic plowed into the obstacle at 23 mph during RTH is because it was doing
                 it's  top speed while in P-Mode --- I believe the owner's manual states that at higher speeds
                 the OA would not be as affective if you were going slower The Mavic needs time to slow  
                 down , I would compare it to driving a car on ice with an obstacle coming up in front of you
                 then apply the brakes too  late then Bammm
                 I've done this a few times in the past because of my misjudgment of flying with a tail wind.   
                Cheers
               
                              

                                 
2017-5-18
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Jenee 2
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It might be helpful for you to read the latest manual v1.6 from page 13. There are several pages there that fully explain the RTH. Even though Smart RTH will attempt to avoid obstacles, it cannot do so if OA is turned off.
I think the main thing you have to consider is that, regardless of the safety features built into the Mavic, you are ultimately responsible for flying and controlling it. You need to learn to manoeuvre the Mavic so that you are in control of it. Until you feel comfortable, don't fly too far away, choose an area free of obstacles and always take into account that something can go wrong.
2017-5-18
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Parkker
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Jenee 2 Posted at 2017-5-18 14:49
It might be helpful for you to read the latest manual v1.6 from page 13. There are several pages there that fully explain the RTH. Even though Smart RTH will attempt to avoid obstacles, it cannot do so if OA is turned off.
I think the main thing you have to consider is that, regardless of the safety features built into the Mavic, you are ultimately responsible for flying and controlling it. You need to learn to manoeuvre the Mavic so that you are in control of it. Until you feel comfortable, don't fly too far away, choose an area free of obstacles and always take into account that something can go wrong.

I am not a neophyte pilot. I can hand fly without auto level, drones, RC airplanes and helicopters. I also hold FAA A&P Licenses, Commercial Pilot Rotorcraft and Private ASEL. That being said I think I understand what is and is not safe flying and how to evaluate the risk (overall situational awareness).
I was simply asking a question about the forward vision sensing and clarifying that it would appear to be somewhat quirky and many who rely on RTH all the time might possibly find themselves befuddled when the drone keeps stopping due to OA being active under certain conditions.
I have read the manual thank you. My understanding on RTH features and OA is as follows:

Smart RTH if active in GO4 app will initiate RTH when remaining battery is only enough to return home. It will use OA only if enabled. Again, if OA is enabled and SRTH engages there would apparently exist certain conditions regarding sun angle which could prevent the aircraft from making it back.

Return to Home Obstacle check setting if enabled (under OA sensor menu GO4), will use OA EVEN if it is disabled with the other setting, so if you have OA disabled but have RTH obstacle check enabled (under advanced OA settings) it will still use OA and again, under certain conditions the aircraft could keep getting continuous false Obstacle sense and keep halting forward motion, wasting valuable battery and possibly causing problems for some situations.

Personally I don't use RTH, preferring to fly it back myself. I also disable all OA so that if RTH ever engages due to an error, momentary loss of controller signal, or SmartRTH due to battery state. That way I know 100% I will avoid false OA triggering and causing problems under these circumstances.
2017-5-18
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hallmark007
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Parkker Posted at 2017-5-18 16:02
I am not a neophyte pilot. I can hand fly without auto level, drones, RC airplanes and helicopters. I also hold FAA A&P Licenses, Commercial Pilot Rotorcraft and Private ASEL. That being said I think I understand what is and is not safe flying and how to evaluate the risk (overall situational awareness).
I was simply asking a question about the forward vision sensing and clarifying that it would appear to be somewhat quirky and many who rely on RTH all the time might possibly find themselves befuddled when the drone keeps stopping due to OA being active under certain conditions.
I have read the manual thank you. My understanding on RTH features and OA is as follows:

It has happened in circumstances where OA detects the sun, it will try to climb to get free of obstacle it sees, so don't be alarmed if your Mavic climbs to its maximum height,
I think once this has happened once we are all aware what it is so we can take action , but it might be in dji interest to mention this in the manual,
2017-5-18
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Parkker
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hallmark007 Posted at 2017-5-18 16:19
It has happened in circumstances where OA detects the sun, it will try to climb to get free of obstacle it sees, so don't be alarmed if your Mavic climbs to its maximum height,
I think once this has happened once we are all aware what it is so we can take action , but it might be in dji interest to mention this in the manual,

This wasn't the behavior my Mavic displayed. The downward looking sensors did not appear to come into play which is logical since the sun is not going to affect them as it will the forward OA sensors. The Mavic simply reared back to decelerate quickly to a stop as though it were approaching a vertical wall where none existed. Keeping the stick forward it would then begin to move forward again for a short distance and then immediately rear back again so forward progress was greatly hindered.
The craft did not climb as it would when downward sensors detect obstacle, rising terrain etc.
2017-5-18
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Parkker
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UCBarkeeper Posted at 2017-5-18 03:49
set your rth altitude higher than any obstacles... at least that is what i'm doing.

Of course that is standard procedure in any case. I always make sure my RTH altitude is set well above any obstacles in the flying area and then leave OA off since it won't be needed if you set RTH altitude correctly anyway.
2017-5-18
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out2sea71
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Jenee 2 Posted at 2017-5-18 14:49
It might be helpful for you to read the latest manual v1.6 from page 13. There are several pages there that fully explain the RTH. Even though Smart RTH will attempt to avoid obstacles, it cannot do so if OA is turned off.
I think the main thing you have to consider is that, regardless of the safety features built into the Mavic, you are ultimately responsible for flying and controlling it. You need to learn to manoeuvre the Mavic so that you are in control of it. Until you feel comfortable, don't fly too far away, choose an area free of obstacles and always take into account that something can go wrong.

can you provide a link to the manual please?
2017-5-18
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Jenee 2
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out2sea71 Posted at 2017-5-18 23:02
can you provide a link to the manual please?

No problem:

https://dl.djicdn.com/downloads/ ... ser+Manual+V1.6.pdf
2017-5-18
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out2sea71
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Jenee 2 Posted at 2017-5-18 23:14
No problem:

https://dl.djicdn.com/downloads/mavic/20170428/Mavic+Pro+User+Manual+V1.6.pdf

Thank you very much.
2017-5-18
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hallmark007
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Parkker Posted at 2017-5-18 19:57
This wasn't the behavior my Mavic displayed. The downward looking sensors did not appear to come into play which is logical since the sun is not going to affect them as it will the forward OA sensors. The Mavic simply reared back to decelerate quickly to a stop as though it were approaching a vertical wall where none existed. Keeping the stick forward it would then begin to move forward again for a short distance and then immediately rear back again so forward progress was greatly hindered.
The craft did not climb as it would when downward sensors detect obstacle, rising terrain etc.

If you left it it would have risen, you will read in your manual that AC comes up against an obstacle it will stop wait then proceed to climb 15 meters clear of obstacle.
This is what I was talking about, I may not have made myself clear, I wasn't talking about downward sensors.

2017-5-19
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Parkker
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hallmark007 Posted at 2017-5-19 01:32
If you left it it would have risen, you will read in your manual that AC comes up against an obstacle it will stop wait then proceed to climb 15 meters clear of obstacle.
This is what I was talking about, I may not have made myself clear, I wasn't talking about downward sensors.

Okay but that is only during RTH with OA enabled correct? I don't think it does this when flying with OA enabled other than RTH or am I wrong.?
Also not keen on the RTH with OA enabled feature where between 16 and 66 feet from home point if RTH triggers for any reason and aircraft is lower than 32 feet it will automatically ascend to 32 feet if you are below that when triggered RTH. This could cause craft to rise into power lines, trees, etc.  I guess I just prefer to remain as much in control myself as possible without all these automatic overrides taking control suddenly.. I am wary!
2017-5-19
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hallmark007
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Parkker Posted at 2017-5-19 14:05
Okay but that is only during RTH with OA enabled correct? I don't think it does this when flying with OA enabled other than RTH or am I wrong.?
Also not keen on the RTH with OA enabled feature where between 16 and 66 feet from home point if RTH triggers for any reason and aircraft is lower than 32 feet it will automatically ascend to 32 feet if you are below that when triggered RTH. This could cause craft to rise into power lines, trees, etc.  I guess I just prefer to remain as much in control myself as possible without all these automatic overrides taking control suddenly.. I am wary!

Yes it is for RTH, with regards to your other scenario if your flying low and close around trees then set OA according to what might suit your situation, I wouldn't recommend flying close to power lines . A lot of this is about looking at the area and conditions you are going to be flying in and set up your aircraft according.
2017-5-19
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Parkker
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I don't fly close to power lines I am simply bringing up scenarios that could occur to clarify the risks and many people doing simple videos at very low altitude, selfies, etc aren't thinking about anything like a cable tv line, power line or tree branch overhang flying 6 feet above the ground. in these situations, albeit very low probability if RTH triggered you could damage tyour drone as it climbs up into obstacle.
I like to examine every possible scenario I can imagine, even if low probability just to be aware as possible.
2017-5-19
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