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Poor 4K Quality
415 14 2017-5-19 11:03:26
Sowa
Beginner
Poland
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Hello,

I have spent some time trying to get the video in 4K better, but finally it always gets 'pixelized' after You Tube compression. But only P4P clips, not others...

Here you can find link to one video I prepare, first 50 seconds (and some parts further) are done with P4P.



4K, 30fps, h264, ND8 filter, 1/60 shutter, some parts ISO 100 + D-Cinematic and some with D-Log (ISO 500), in camera settings set as -3, -3, -3. Processing in Final Cut Pro X, color corrections and sharpening. Still really terrible look when scaled down to 1080p. Even in 4K it looks like poor 1080. And straight in FCPX it doesn't look like 4K.

The rest of the material (from Olympus EM1 Mk II) is perfectly sharp, fantastic. So it's not FCPX compression/conversion issue or YouTube issue alone... It doesn't even look like too aggresive processing (and I dragged lights and darks to +/- 40, even 50). I added 5-10 sharpening max.

Is that something known about Phantom 4? Is it so bad in 4K when there are fast moving objects and the scene is not lit so well? In fact, all scenes look ugly. I really struggle with it so far.

Any suggestion as to what settings/resolution is really best and gives great results? It seems that video is a bit disappointing, at least not what I expected. Thankfully, photos are really great!

Thanks for any suggestions! Would be really helpful, as I'm getting frustrated

Cheers,
Marcin

2017-5-19 11:03:26
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JoiCam
Student Pilot
Flight distance : 44057
Iceland
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Try lower the sharpness and contrast to -2 and bring it back as needed in post.  
2017-5-19 12:50:16
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Geebax
Captain
Australia
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Almost your entire clip is made up of fine tree foliage and detail, probably the worst subject to shoot with a camera that utilises MPEG compression. And the short answer is no, you cannot expect the P4 to produce better results than that. If you then put it through YouTube, the final result is always going to be worse.
2017-5-19 14:26:48
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Sowa
Beginner
Poland
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JoiCam Posted at 2017-5-19 12:50
Try lower the sharpness and contrast to -2 and bring it back as needed in post.

Yes, I had it set at -3 during shooting.
2017-5-20 00:18:45
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Sowa
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Poland
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Geebax Posted at 2017-5-19 14:26
Almost your entire clip is made up of fine tree foliage and detail, probably the worst subject to shoot with a camera that utilises MPEG compression. And the short answer is no, you cannot expect the P4 to produce better results than that. If you then put it through YouTube, the final result is always going to be worse.

I was suspecting that, but was hoping it's not about the subject only.

But would it look better if recorder in 1080 straight away, rather than 4K and downscaling?

Thanks!
2017-5-20 00:19:44
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Geebax
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Sowa Posted at 2017-5-20 00:19
I was suspecting that, but was hoping it's not about the subject only.

But would it look better if recorder in 1080 straight away, rather than 4K and downscaling?

Hmm, it might look a bit better, as the bitrate of 1080p is less susceptible to compression of detail. But hey, only one way to find out.
2017-5-20 01:56:28
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JoiCam
Student Pilot
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Sowa Posted at 2017-5-20 00:18
Yes, I had it set at -3 during shooting.

It was in your post   Sorry.
This looks like over sharpness in the details. I do lot of 4k shooting and do not having this problem, even when I use them in 1080 projects.
I usually use D Log and -2 -2 -2 in the settings and shutter set to 2x frame rate and even if I am using non color profile I do not have this problem. When I am filming trees in bright sun I get just minimal over sharpness noise effect only if I use non color profile and all set to -0, It does not happen If I have all set to -2. And I get the best outcome when I use use D Log and All set to -2.
2017-5-20 02:23:19
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Sowa
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Poland
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JoiCam Posted at 2017-5-20 02:23
It was in your post   Sorry.
This looks like over sharpness in the details. I do lot of 4k shooting and do not having this problem, even when I use them in 1080 projects.
I usually use D Log and -2 -2 -2 in the settings and shutter set to 2x frame rate and even if I am using non color profile I do not have this problem. When I am filming trees in bright sun I get just minimal over sharpness noise effect only if I use non color profile and all set to -0, It does not happen If I have all set to -2. And I get the best outcome when I use use D Log and All set to -2.

So basically I has very similar approach and it somehow failed. Well, I need to try more, or maybe I use FCPX wrong and my workflow destroys it?

Anyway, same footage made with Olympus, in same forest, full of branches and lots of details, is perfectly sharp.

Thanks!
2017-5-25 12:31:20
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Sowa
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Poland
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Geebax Posted at 2017-5-20 01:56
Hmm, it might look a bit better, as the bitrate of 1080p is less susceptible to compression of detail. But hey, only one way to find out.

Yep! I have to keep going and see when it gets worse and when I have best results! Maybe one P4 is not perfectly same as another!
2017-5-25 12:32:42
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Dobmatt
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Canada
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Sowa Posted at 2017-5-25 12:32
Yep! I have to keep going and see when it gets worse and when I have best results! Maybe one P4 is not perfectly same as another!

Your sample video (nice, by the way) contains clips made by two hugely different cameras. To be honest, comparing Oly EM-1 MkII excellent performance with Phantom 4 camera doesn't make much sense. The main culprit here is the bitrate: Oly does UHD 4K video with 102 Mbps easily, while P4 camera struggle with 60 Mbps bottleneck. Another issue: grass and foliage on fast and close passages are extremely difficult to digest by compression algorithm at such low 4K bitrate. That's why your P4 footage looks so pixelated in comparison to Oly footage. Poor implementation of codec by DJI aside, further YouTube processing doesn't help either. Unfortunately not sufficient 4K video recording bitrate is given to any DJI drone camera up to Zenmuse X5R and P4P. Particularly with DJI D-Log formula, which is rather useless IMHO. If you really expect fair competition with your Oly, you must try P4Pro camera, which is absolutely amazing.

I had some success dealing with such artifacts of previous generation 4K footage in Premiere Pro. Try to export troubled clip with identical parameters but with - say - CTR 25 Mbps bitrate and highest rendering quality (not default VBR, 1 pass 10-12). This will deliver bigger output file, naturally. Later assemble new project with original Oly clips and "doctored" Phantom clips and see if there's any improvement. Try to publish you work on Vimeo, perhaps. Let us know ...
2017-5-25 20:50:20
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Geebax
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Australia
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Dobmatt Posted at 2017-5-25 20:50
Your sample video (nice, by the way) contains clips made by two hugely different cameras. To be honest, comparing Oly EM-1 MkII excellent performance with Phantom 4 camera doesn't make much sense. The main culprit here is the bitrate: Oly does UHD 4K video with 102 Mbps easily, while P4 camera struggle with 60 Mbps bottleneck. Another issue: grass and foliage with fast and close passages are extremely difficult to digest by compression algorithm at such low 4K bitrate. That's why your P4 footage looks so pixelated in comparison to Oly footage. Poor implementation of codec by DJI aside, further YouTube processing doesn't help either. Unfortunately not sufficient 4K video recording bitrate is given to any DJI drone camera up to Zenmuse X5R and P4P.

I had some success dealing with such artifacts of previous generation 4K footage in Premiere Pro. Try to export troubled clip with identical parameters but with - say - CTR 25 Mbps bitrate and highest rendering quality (not default VBR, 1 pass 10-12). Later assemble your project with original Oly clips and "doctored" Phantom clips and see if there's any improvement. Let us know ...

Sowa says in the opening post that he is using a P4P, which can shoot with a bit rate of 100 Mbs, so the bitrate should compare with the Olympus, but he does say if he is using the 100 mbs option.
2017-5-25 20:58:50
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Dobmatt
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Canada
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Geebax Posted at 2017-5-25 20:58
Sowa says in the opening post that he is using a P4P, which can shoot with a bit rate of 100 Mbs, so the bitrate should compare with the Olympus, but he does say if he is using the 100 mbs option.

ooops, what was I thinking? Than I don't know ...
2017-5-25 21:10:19
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Dobmatt
Second Officer
Canada
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Przepraszam za pomyłkę, Sowa. Gdzies w połowie napisałes Phantom 4 i dalej już poszło tym torem. Tak czy inaczej sprobuj tej metody, ale to mi się nie podoba w ogóle. Nic takiego nie widzę w moich klipach z P4P+. Sporo takiego smiecia jest z Zenmuse X5, ale - co ciekawe - tylko w D-Log. Wszyscy narzekali w swoim czasie na tę usterkę, w końcu DJI się wycofał z wszelkich prób naprawy i tak już zostało. Aha, sprobuj jeszcze jakies inne SD, P4P jest trochę grymasny. Sam już nie wiem co Ci doradzić. Powodzenia.
2017-5-25 21:16:30
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Dobmatt
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Geebax Posted at 2017-5-25 20:58
Sowa says in the opening post that he is using a P4P, which can shoot with a bit rate of 100 Mbs, so the bitrate should compare with the Olympus, but he does say if he is using the 100 mbs option.

Gee, are you saying the 100 Mbps is optional within P4P setup? I know it's given, but can you choose lower bitrate?
2017-5-25 21:33:11
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Geebax
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Australia
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Dobmatt Posted at 2017-5-25 21:33
Gee, are you saying the 100 Mbps is optional within P4P setup? I know it's given, but can you choose lower bitrate?

To be honest, I don't know, I don't have a P4P, but it might be optional. Perhaps someone else could answer that. I have a Sony A7R where the bitrate is dependant upon the frame rate, and perhaps the P4P is too. (?)
2017-5-25 21:43:03
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