Hexacopter Posted at 2017-5-20 23:13
I fly from private property. I don't need a licence or a club. Homeowner's insurance covers my liabilty, public liability for paid (CASA) approved work.

The issue is with the local private gun club where I fly the targets as this new 'geofencing' (Gun Club = NFZ) means that we cannot use Mavics as targets and they are our biggest charity earner ($100 a shot).

Are you serious about this Mavic shooting thing ??

fansc15dc5fd Posted at 2017-5-20 19:58
Oh, come on. Cut this BS about using drones to do bad things. I mean how many times that actually happened? Maybe, because there are easier ways, really.
I flew my 2 pound glider at a farm for years and never had issues. And now I would have to call 6 helipads and an airport to do the same.
So if you tell that for a sake of safety I have to make those stupid calls for an hour - kiss my folding prop. It changes nothing.

Most people are good I assume but the "bad"  and "bad people" news via media outlets  tells a different story.  Most drone users do not break the law, however, when you have several people trying to fly the drone into the White House, into wildfires when firefighters are attempting to douse the fire, into NYC (drones are 100% ILLEGAL anywhere in NYC.... good luck with that, NYC has about 8 million people), flying 12,000 Feet or 36,000 meters into airspace territory then bragging about it on the internet, we all know what happens.  The few ALWAYS ruin it for the many.  Restrictions then more restrictions.  Perfect example is the new law in Canada where they cannot fly around animals, people, buildings with 500 meters essentially shutting down any drone users in Canada unless you have a large track of land that is yours.

Mobilcams Posted at 2017-5-20 20:19
The one thing I hope that they DO take care of is when you ARE indoors flying,  get a stray gps signal saying you are in New York or some other place it doesn't try to land or make you say I have permission to fly here.. I am in class G airspace, and when I was doing testing between my P4P and my P4 - my P4 (which acquires GPS signals faster and more reliably I will say) kept coming up with those warnings when I was just hovering in my apartment (it's big and on the second floor)..  My P4P never acquired a signal so It never complained..

In the screen shot of the conversation above I saw something about people trying to circumvent GPS with aluminum foil... Is this new software/hardware update going to make it where you can't fly indoors now too??

NYC which has a population of about 8 million, is illegal for every one of those 8 Million to fly drones per NYC law.  In Manhattan, this is strictly enforced, however, there are stories of people flying drones there anyway, sometimes into high rise skyscrapers smashing into people's windows.   This new update from DJI  will disable all the drones in NYC.  Then hack programs will proliferate that will circumvent DJI's effort.  In my opinion, DJI's effort of ultra restriction will fail.

You will need a data connection to the Internet for your smartphone or  tablet when you log in, in order to verify the account information and  activate the updated software or firmware. If this activation process is  not performed, the aircraft will not have access to the correct  geospatial information and flight functions for that region, and its  operations will be restricted if you update the upcoming firmware: Live  camera streaming will be disabled, and flight will be limited to a  50-meter (164-foot) radius up to 30 meters (98 feet) high.

Let's break this down and ask DJI to verify and agree the breakdown ...

You will need a data connection to the Internet for your smartphone or  tablet when you log in,
   - Nothing unusual here, internet is needed to connect to the DJI servers from your mobile device.

(This is) in order to verify the account information and  activate the updated software or firmware.
  - Again, the connection requirement is nothing unusual ... BUT ...
  - The phrasing suggests the update will be pre-downloaded and pending install BEFORE you login (in the same way that Microsoft can pre-download updates to Windows and they only install when you restart the computer).
  - @DJI - are you doing discrete pre-downloads of updates now?  If so, why and when did you start that method?

If this activation process is  not performed, the aircraft will not have access to the correct  geospatial information and flight functions for that region,
  - Is this due to a "kill switch" in a pre-login download, or due to a change of registration server/software?
  - @DJI - please clarify why the new login is required instead of your devs migrating the prior login to any new server or system.

(If you do not login and activate) and its  operations will be restricted if you update the upcoming firmware: Live  camera streaming will be disabled, and flight will be limited to a  50-meter (164-foot) radius up to 30 meters (98 feet) high.
  - This consequential action expressly implies that a "kill switch" is either pre-downloaded before login and activation, or was programmatically included and date activated in previous versions of the software without announcement to us (the consumers).
  - If that is the case then DJI have not been transparent in the terms of purchase of their equipment and all of our systems may have been mis-sold to us.
  - @DJI - please verify by what method you have the programmatic ability to restrict operations of our aircraft if we do not perform the login and registration.

Please respond to the above as soon as possible.  

Many thanks.

(edit - grammar for clarity)

Indeed, even allowing for translation muddle that announcement is a masterpiece of mis-information and double speak..
It's not even clear if you will be forced to update app or firmware by the severe hobbling mentioned.
Such basic stuff it has obviously not been stated clearly because the intention is to mislead and re-assure so as to make enforced changes less unpalateable until it's too late.

So there'll be hacked versions around soon, possibility of back doors appearing allowing control remotely.. dangerous move dji. My car isn't limited, that's my responsibility. Dji lack of communication makes the situation worse. The 50 metre restriction - see my first posts on 'almost fly away' for a reason why this is VERY dangerous. In summary, this is looking like the end for dji

DJI please address this issue ASAP. Bumping this regulary until clarification is provided

fans6916e6f9 Posted at 2017-5-20 11:46
This is the transcript...
[view_image]

".... so we are sure you have the right stuff for you country" That is the worst of my expectations. Means that restrictions will be applied based on the country where user's profile is registered or shows. What if I registered in one country and then moved to a different one? What if I go for vacation somewhere else? Total control of all DJI users?! If this is the case, I'm firm to say GOOD BYE DJI and cancel Inspire 2 order I've already placed

I agree^^^

What if we go on vacation? So disappointing if our worst fears are confirmed

Don't you mean if you do not update?

All I know is I just got back from my first flight of my DJI P3S -- Think I have that DJI high feeking  LOL  --no problems at all !

JW5255 Posted at 2017-5-20 13:49
As a Canadian I am really concerned.  As others have said, if the DJI geofencing is going to reflect the interim rules recently released in Canada, the entire country will be a NFZ.  To add insult to possible injury, DJI will cause drastic flight restrictions if we don't update?  How is this not a threat !  Seriously, I thought I owned my drone.

DJI you have been reminding me of this update for a few days every time that I use DJI Go.  Please provide some clarification.  You're stressing people out.

They have said they will not enforce the new Canadian rules in software.

The amount of drama and over reaction to this non event story that you will just need to login to your account again when the new software is released is NUTS!

All they did was warn you that if you don't login first you will have limited flying range. Once you login again all will return to normal! Before if you didn't fly login to the app it had no impact now if your not login to your account and fly it has some limits. END OF STORY.... And everyone let there imaginations run wild with all sorts of negative possibilities.  

LOL!!!! This thread is hilarious! Chill out FFSakes!

DJI Joe Posted at 2017-5-19 14:47
It looks like this update is just a step to ensure GEO is being enforced. If one updates and provides the necessary account info, I don't believe any unnecessary flight restrictions will be put in place.

If this activation process is not performed, the aircraft will not have access to the correct geospatial information and flight functions for that region, and its operations will be restricted if you update the upcoming firmware: Live camera streaming will be disabled, and flight will be limited to a 50-meter (164-foot) radius up to 30 meters (98 feet) high.

Joe, in looking at the big picture of the future what you are doing will help us here in the States. The FAA has Facility Maps which are airspace maps with maximum altitudes allowed within different distances of Airports. The height increases as you move away from the Airport. At this time you have to obtain a waiver to fly within the 5 miles of an Airport at any height. In the future Geofencing will incorporate the allowable height at the appropriate distance. For example, I have a mapping job to do for a Technical School that is in Class E Airspace due to the Airport approach pattern and C due to it being at the edge of the 5 mile perimeter. The safe flying Chart height is 1,200' for Aircraft. For my mapping job I will fly at a maximum of 200 feet. Most likely there will not be any issue obtaining permission from ATC. IN the future these heights will be in the Geofencing and most likely I will not have to go through the process.

fans6916e6f9 Posted at 2017-5-21 05:47
The amount of drama and over reaction to this non event story that you will just need to login to your account again when the new software is released is NUTS!

All they did was warn you that if you don't login first you will have limited flying range. Once you login again all will return to normal! Before if you didn't fly login to the app it had no impact now if your not login to your account and fly it has some limits. END OF STORY.... And everyone let there imaginations run wild with all sorts of negative possibilities.

I believe at first, after you login as they've asked, everything will be the same as it was.
This will cause everyone to update their software and be happy.
However, once these versions are on everybody's devices there will be no way back and DJI will have a way of updating flight restrictions according to each country's regulation, without the users being able to do anything about it. From here it's all down hill...
I'm hoping to be proven wrong but if not, it's the end of this hobby.
When I wake up in the morning and put some batteries in the charger, I don't expect my Mavic to decide it doesn't want to fly for some weird reason. When I hit 'Takeoff' it's after I made sure it's safe to fly. This is my responsibility.

Those of you telling people who have concerns about what this update holds should either not comment, or ignore this thread.

DJI would not have made a whole seperate post about this including a 1 week in advance app popup notification if it were not a significant update.

I will continue bumping this thread until we get an official clarification from DJI.

Bond006 Posted at 2017-5-21 00:29
NYC which has a population of about 8 million, is illegal for every one of those 8 Million to fly drones per NYC law.  In Manhattan, this is strictly enforced, however, there are stories of people flying drones there anyway, sometimes into high rise skyscrapers smashing into people's windows.   This new update from DJI  will disable all the drones in NYC.  Then hack programs will proliferate that will circumvent DJI's effort.  In my opinion, DJI's effort of ultra restriction will fail.

No one has proven that it is going to be any extra restrictions yet. Don't state things that you don't know for sure are fact..

Up^^^

/10chars

Dmitry495 Posted at 2017-5-21 04:44
".... so we are sure you have the right stuff for you country" That is the worst of my expectations. Means that restrictions will be applied based on the country where user's profile is registered or shows. What if I registered in one country and then moved to a different one? What if I go for vacation somewhere else? Total control of all DJI users?! If this is the case, I'm firm to say GOOD BYE DJI and cancel Inspire 2 order I've already placed

Yes. I bought a Mavic for travelling through various countries with different rules.
No answer till now at my main question about the precise meaning of "right stuff for your country".
Moreover I fly very often in mountainous areas where the 120m limit is not adapted to many situations (I have very often to climb much more over my home point, even If I just follow the slope at a relative constant altitude of 10m). Could I continue to fly like that in the future ? If not, I'll sale my Phantoms and my Mavic...

I am more and more convinced, I did NOT buy just a little drone to have some fun by flying around and taking some beautiful shots, ...in mistake I must have bought a dangerous weapon!  ...equal to guns (which can be purchased in many countries with near no restrictions), equal to a truck, ...that, without a geofencing system, can be driven into crowds by everyone,...  
I really did not expect to be near terrorists, by purchasing this little toy. Maybe it's time to quit with DJI!?
There seem to be other manufacturers who still sell "just drones"...

calls4u2 Posted at 2017-5-21 02:46
So there'll be hacked versions around soon, possibility of back doors appearing allowing control remotely.. dangerous move dji. My car isn't limited, that's my responsibility. Dji lack of communication makes the situation worse. The 50 metre restriction - see my first posts on 'almost fly away' for a reason why this is VERY dangerous. In summary, this is looking like the end for dji

there are already hacked versions, however, this new restriction will be more pronounced.

The sound of silence from DJI is deafening.

We demand confirmation of what this update brings.

You surely don't want any negative feedback from your community a few days before the spark is released right?

Mobilcams Posted at 2017-5-21 06:34
No one has proven that it is going to be any extra restrictions yet. Don't state things that you don't know for sure are fact..

you are correct, I do not know if the restriction for NYC will be incorporated into this new program.  I should had stated "my opinion", since I am not privy to the program's features yet.  

People are equating drones to cars, however, cars have governors that reduces the top speed dramatically, at least in the USA.  I know a Yank who brought his BMW with no speed restriction from Germany, then took it on a barge in Spain to the USA.  Also Drones are not  as dangerous as cars.  Nobody has died yet, people have been hit from above and suffered injuries, however, not life threatening, the mass of the drones is not big enough.  However, driving just 40 kmph (25mph) and colliding with a person will kill them, due to the mass of the car that will transfer to the person who was hit.

Lastly, some people are engaging what some in the computer industry have done for decades, assemble your own remote aircraft.  You can buy all the parts and built your own, camera included.  then you will not have to worry about any companies placing restrictions on your craft.  That will be very popular IF this is a ultra restriction.

EranR Posted at 2017-5-21 06:10
I believe at first, after you login as they've asked, everything will be the same as it was.
This will cause everyone to update their software and be happy.
However, once these versions are on everybody's devices there will be no way back and DJI will have a way of updating flight restrictions according to each country's regulation, without the users being able to do anything about it. From here it's all down hill...

I believe DJI already have the ability to restrict your flight since it links via Occusense system back to DJI.  Sometimes I receive a NFZ, however, I am nowhere near a NFZ area and other people have complained that their craft will not even take off since last year.  I do not know the reason behind this FORCED update, but what you stated, DJI already have those abilities.

Bond006 Posted at 2017-5-21 10:24
I believe DJI already have the ability to restrict your flight since it links via Occusense system back to DJI.  Sometimes I receive a NFZ, however, I am nowhere near a NFZ area and other people have complained that their craft will not even take off since last year.  I do not know the reason behind this FORCED update, but what you stated, DJI already have those abilities.

First, OcuSync is just the video transmission protocol that the Mavic uses.. All the drones are controlled by firmware built into the computer system on the drone, firmware in the controller, and the software being used..  This forced update for all we know could be a way for DJI to realign their system that has serious flaws in it causing people not to be able to fly in certain places when they should be able to,  not being able to unlock their drones  through DJI's online app.. For all any of us know, the data base system could need to be updated because so many people are sync'ing their flight records now they can't keep up (people have complained about not being able to do this more and more frequently).. Whatever the reason, I will wait to upgrade my P4 - but I WILL upgrade my P4P (don't want something to happen with the old firmware on the P4P while under warranty)..  I will be happy to report my findings after the update..  Assuming without any solid evidence is ignorant, and childish of everyone.. The sky is falling mentality is exactly why we have people so scared of drones in the first place.. DJI is here to advocate drone flying (it's their business people)..  They will lose money if they disable their own products - that would be dumb..

unbelievable (or very believable) that there is still no clarification around this issue despite so much community concern. While I appreciate Brendan Schulman and Joe saying what they have, neither of them seem to have phrased their comments as definitive statements of what will happen.

1. If I am registered in Australia, and go to fly in Australia, what will happen? currently we only seem to have old NFZ, not new GEO zones.
2. If I am registered in Australia, go to the USA, and fly there, what will happen? Will my Australian settings apply, will different USA settings apply? with the USA GEO NFZ?
3. If I am registered in Australia or USA, but go to Europe, what will happen? Besides NFZ changes, would any other changes be enforced e.g. radio power? and if that changed, would it revert to full/default power when leaving Europe?
3. If I am registered in Australia, but on holidays overseas, when the update comes, what will happen? and what will happen when I go home?

4. If I am inside the house, where Mavic doesn't get GPS signals, what will happen? can I fly?
5. If I am inside the empty warehouse, where I do get GPS, but am not actually within airspace, what will happen? can I fly?
6. if I have hiked into a super cool canyon, the video of which would inspire everyone human on earth to rush out and buy a DJI drone, but I cannot get GPS signal in the canyon, what will happen? can I fly?

7. what are the actual changelog notes for the firmware, in detail - there are lots of sophisticated operators here, we want to know specifics.
8. Is internet connectivity actually required at any other time besides with the update process? i.e. if I don't have internet connectivity at any time beyond the initial re-activation/registration, will I be locked out of flying the Mavic?

9. Will it still lock my altitude based on altitude from take-off level, not AGL? Are you including terrain data?

fansc15dc5fd Posted at 2017-5-20 19:58
Oh, come on. Cut this BS about using drones to do bad things. I mean how many times that actually happened? Maybe, because there are easier ways, really.
I flew my 2 pound glider at a farm for years and never had issues. And now I would have to call 6 helipads and an airport to do the same.
So if you tell that for a sake of safety I have to make those stupid calls for an hour - kiss my folding prop. It changes nothing.

Hi,

well just check youtube and the bunch of idiots flying anywhere anyhow...

I am a responsible flyer like your are, but i am confronted every single day with irresponsible fliers..

Can you not read the stories of the people going at 3 or 4 miles and so proud of it ? MOst of them don't do it in no man's land, they fly over houses, roads, trains.... So at some time.... ;)

Anyway this is how it is, simply, and we have to deal with it

As per usual not ever clear is it DJI. Does this mean I can just update the app and then resign in and be all ready to go or have to plug it all in to my P4P and reregister again?

Plus if I find any restrictions on my flight then the drone will be going back for a refund as it isn't what I brought........it is for me to ensure I do not go over my georegulations not you as a company.

kwi66 Posted at 2017-5-21 09:20
I am more and more convinced, I did NOT buy just a little drone to have some fun by flying around and taking some beautiful shots, ...in mistake I must have bought a dangerous weapon!  ...equal to guns (which can be purchased in many countries with near no restrictions), equal to a truck, ...that, without a geofencing system, can be driven into crowds by everyone,...  
I really did not expect to be near terrorists, by purchasing this little toy. Maybe it's time to quit with DJI!?
There seem to be other manufacturers who still sell "just drones"...

kwi66 you just pinpointed the whole matter.  They go more and more in the wrong direction...an stupid hysteria and wrong interpretations. Dji is already to far in his control over our purchased products. Anyone could purchase independently parts to built a drone  much larger and crash it in the head of a politician or filming the but of a  diva...they should ban electric motors, propellers and flight controllers as well...where we are going with this? Instead of this they should develop proper parachute for the drone in case of malfunction to not just drop. They should improve sensors, put better navigating lights on it and maybe an close range beacon for passing helicopters. Yes they allow guns but are afraid of small filming drones.
The firmware and app really need someone serious attention (already done by others but not mass public available)...to finally enable us to be indeed the owners of what we purchased with a lot o money.

E-Copter Posted at 2017-5-21 11:29
Hi,

well just check youtube and the bunch of idiots flying anywhere anyhow...

I travel to the lake or the ocean and I have to fly over houses,  motorways and people.  So does regular airplanes.  That is un-avaoidable unless you are flying in a field only and that is ZERO fun.  Line of sight is subjective  to the user.  Not so concerned about the flyer who travels 5 Kms out but I do with flyers  who fly into regular aircraft's territory vertically.

I don't like this, seems fishy

The interesting thing is that DJI already have complete control of your drone . Just by saying that your drone is restricted if you don't log in after the next update. Way to much power for the Chinese . This could be the end of DJI for me . Not because of the update but forcing a restriction on my drone if I don't register.

@DJI: Sometimes I am borrowing my drone to friends, does the Friend needs than to make his own DJI account without being the owner?
(lately one of my drones was in Senegal with a friend)

@Dji: Please be aware that here in Luxembourg we have no (until now) specific UAS regulation for recreational use, we have to comply with the RC Model Aviation regulations.

I am also a bit concerned about DJI making sure that we have "the right stuff".

I live in Germany and although a new federal law has just been introduced that makes flying  drones in NFZs unlawful, the DFS, a company in charge of air traffic control at many German international airports has just renewed their general exemption that flying drones in a GND NFZ around an airport is still allowed as long as one stays out of the 1.5 km zone and limits the altitude to 50 m. However, this permission is only valid for those airports operated by them and may be different at other airports.

I would be surprised if DJI would be able to tell (or even care) who is running the air traffic control at a given airport before defining an NFZ.

With the current firmware I only get the NFZ warning which I can disable by checking the two checkboxes. If the announced update would now block me from taking off I'd immediately file a complaint with my vendor and demand return & refund. Consumer rights are strong in Germany - I am just not sure how amused Amaz*n would be if they'd receive a lot of such requests....

I'll wait for initial user reports before applying the update.

Not sure, however, how Amaz*n would like if to got many such requests.

Amazing, all these idiots completely mis-reading that announcement and seeing messages of doom.

^^^^ Calling someone an idiot over concerns about restrictions is hardly a sign of pragmatism. But here, have a cookie.

I am theorizing here. DJI is worried about lawyers. This means they want to collect and keep as much data on all users as possible, even without telling users what they are doing.
It is in their interests to do so. It provides data on how the products are being used as well as building evidence files in the event of litigation.
That data could theoretically include surreptitiously gathered flight logs, video and even things users have posted here and elsewhere online.

Already it has been documented that peoples smart tv's, computers, phones etc. can and are unethically used to gather data. Of course, when people first spoke of this sometime ago, many who don't want to be bothered with unpleasant news simply blow it off by shouting "conspiracy theorists" or "tinfoil hatter". Sorry but mega powerful people and organizations do not get there and stay there without planning and conspiring.

Bump bump

10 chars

the post reads

"if you update the upcoming firmware: Live camera streaming will be disabled, and flight will be limited to a 50-meter (164-foot) radius up to 30 meters (98 feet) high."


so if I take this update I will no longer beable to live stream and will have a massive limit to flying range???????