@dirty bird: For new sales I suggest a great big sticker on the box explicitly stating "Active internet connection required during flight.  DJI decides when & where you get to fly."  

BEST COMMENT SO FAR HAHAHAH! absolutely nailed it

Aardvark Posted at 2017-7-9 03:57
The Smart RTH disable option missing on the P4P must be a bug in the P4P firmware. It still exists in the very latest builds for the P4 (unless it's a glitch on the P4 build :-( ). In the P4 firmware notes they even say they have "Optimised Smart Return to Home" as part of the latest build.

Hi Aardvark. I think what we've seen there is a reversal of the DJI engineers thinking. In another thread Natalia (I think) reported that removing the switch for Smart RTH in the latest P4P release was a deliberate decision by the engineers, as who could possible want it disabled - right? She said she would feed back the subsequent teeth-gnashing.
No doubt a number of common 'optimisations' incorporated in P4P releases over the last year have made their way into the new P4 build, along with a few since the last P4P release itself. DJI would be taking every opportunity to slipstream updates from each code branch into future ones for others.

Dirty Bird Posted at 2017-7-9 15:44
It isn't that Smart-RTH is being removed.  It is the removal of the ability to disable it that is the issue.  From conversations posted here by DJI staff it would appear this was done deliberately by design &  was NOT an omission.   A P4P with high capacity battery can do ~60,000' runs.  A couple weeks back I watched one bail on a mission at a hair over 21,000' with 75% battery remaining

Hi. Just working my way through this thread, but as Aardvark has advised, you can disable Smart RTH with the new P4 build. That says to me that the app will provide the option depending on the firmware build, and THAT says to me that the engineers have listened to feedback and have reversed their thinking (assuming it was deliberate in the first place). I will bet that the function to disable will re-appear with the next P4P release.

mhoppes Posted at 2017-7-10 17:04
OK.  I'm not going to argue.  The FAA has already agreed they have no authority to regulate recreational flying.

Aloha hoppes,

     The FAA has no authority to require recreational hobbyists to register their drones.  That is a far cry from not having the authority to regulate recreational flight.  To my knowledge the full slate has not been erased, just the registration part of it.  As we speak, Congress is working on the next set of regulations for recreational flight.  Would you like to see the legislation?

Aloha and Drone On!

Phantomski Posted at 2017-7-8 15:43
I think my point is - do not point fingers at DJI blindly.. let's look at what happened, and see if there's a lesson for all of us, so we do not have the same issue.
I am sorry to say, but after all the issues I've read about firmware upgrade issues, from many users, over the last year+, I NEVER had a significant issue..  Usually I am not that lucky.. I've used a number of Android as well as IOS devices. I have an advanced and pro.. and, well, things are not as bad as many make them... so I am always trying to figure out what's happening, because I believe if we can zero in on issues people have, and the root cause.. perhapos someone else can avoid same issue...  Just blaming DJI and having a fit, as much as I understand, is not really helping anyone.. hence my approach... And believe me, I've made a share of mistakes, so I am in no way into blaming.. but knowledge is power...  ;)
I JUST upgraded, did not do a test flight yet.. will do in a few... http://forum.dji.com/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=103743&fromuid=277621

I think its also unhelpful to use a sample size of 1 (your personal experience) to suggest that everyone else that has encountered an issue is doing something wrong.

Emdub 8 Posted at 2017-7-10 23:31
I think its also unhelpful to use a sample size of 1 (your personal experience) to suggest that everyone else that has encountered an issue is doing something wrong.

Perhaps not everybody, things happen, but i have been a user and an active member of this forum for over a year.. and well.. I am talking from experience... not just because I had no issues.... of course things happen, but overall, there are 2 sorts of people who come here with problems.. those who want to resolve them and learn, and those who come to scream and blame....  If people r not open to a possibility that they made a mistake, they might just as well not ask for help.... but that's digressing.. the bottom line, if u have issue, try to resolve them with the help of others, and more often than not, you will find that something broke in the process... if not, then u are one in a quite small % that actually encounter a bug, or some hardware/software issue that just cropped out....

Punchbuggy Posted at 2017-7-10 21:32
Hi. Just working my way through this thread, but as Aardvark has advised, you can disable Smart RTH with the new P4 build. That says to me that the app will provide the option depending on the firmware build, and THAT says to me that the engineers have listened to feedback and have reversed their thinking (assuming it was deliberate in the first place). I will bet that the function to disable will re-appear with the next P4P release.

You know before you speak , common sense and rational thinking , are two of the most repulsed traits around this forum, while hysteria and generalisation seem to attract the proverbial fly to S*it.

You need to be very careful of spreading so much common sense about.

I mean, you could claim that anything's real if the only basis for believing in it is that nobody's proved it doesn't exist!”

hallmark007 Posted at 2017-7-11 12:32
You know before you speak , common sense and rational thinking , are two of the most repulsed traits around this forum, while hysteria and generalisation seem to attract the proverbial fly to S*it.

You need to be very careful of spreading so much common sense about.

Ha! Well, I can tell you that I wear a very effective charm for repelling elephants. Hey, look around me - do you see any elephants?

Punchbuggy Posted at 2017-7-11 14:13
Ha! Well, I can tell you that I wear a very effective charm for repelling elephants. Hey, look around me - do you see any elephants?

There's always one

The problem here is not enough people use the DJI Homeopathic Spray before each flight. Just one quick application will prevent any mechanical, electrical and software problems. Works on both aircraft and remote. It works with 100% reliability as long as the energy remains in the solution.  

Cabansail Posted at 2017-7-11 14:40
The problem here is not enough people use the DJI Homeopathic Spray before each flight. Just one quick application will prevent any mechanical, electrical and software problems. Works on both aircraft and remote. It works with 100% reliability as long as the energy remains in the solution.

Do you have the link to that store selling it? ;)

  
DJI appear to have initiated something which is either sinister, downright incompetent or a deception which they are not prepared to admit.

The very fact that they have disabled roll back on the firmware is very telling.

They are saying to their customers you will do what we want regardless of the consequences.
  
DJI should immediately allow roll back of the firmware to a point where all are satisfied that their drones are working to a level where the customer has a perfectly working drone.
  
If DJI insist in keeping control of drones which are no longer their property then they should be prosecuted to the greatest extent of the law.
  
I find their actions disgusting.

John.
  

Mayday Posted at 2017-7-11 14:56
DJI appear to have initiated something which is either sinister, downright incompetent or a deception which they are not prepared to admit.

The very fact that they have disabled roll back on the firmware is very telling.

It seems that you are not aware that DJI is responding to recent hacking of firmware.
That will be the major factor in preventing rollback.
I don't think that fits either sinister, incompetent or deception.

Aardvark Posted at 2017-7-11 14:15
There's always one

Oh, right. I should have said that it's a charm for repelling unhappy elephants. That guy is quite happy...

Punchbuggy Posted at 2017-7-11 15:09
Oh, right. I should have said that it's a charm for repelling unhappy elephants. That guy is quite happy...

Wonder if it works for Unicorns too?

Cetacean Posted at 2017-7-10 14:55
Aloha Alxy,

     What you are saying is simply not true.  Thousands of us have no problems and do not update or upgrade.  They just do not have the bells and whistles those of us who do update and upgrade do.  If you are having a problem, fix it like the rest of us do.  Do not suffer the problem and just belly-ache that DJI is against you.  DJI should not be expected to come to your house and hold your hand while you fix your machine.

The problem with forced firmware update is resolvable. That's why thousands of owners have no issue. But it can happen that, like for some users who complain here, the drone is blocked at a location where the user either has no time to update or has a connectivity issue.
DJI is not supposed to come to my house in the first place - they should not force the update. If they did then may be it would be good that they also come to fix it.
DJI has a closed system and I cannot fix anything. The only thing I can do is to install or re-install what is provided to me.
DJI provides both software and hardware. I have no option to use the hardware with other software.  Even if I could, I bought both from DJI.

Cetacean Posted at 2017-7-10 14:55
Aloha Alxy,

     What you are saying is simply not true.  Thousands of us have no problems and do not update or upgrade.  They just do not have the bells and whistles those of us who do update and upgrade do.  If you are having a problem, fix it like the rest of us do.  Do not suffer the problem and just belly-ache that DJI is against you.  DJI should not be expected to come to your house and hold your hand while you fix your machine.

The problem with forced firmware update is resolvable. That's why thousands of owners have no issue. But it can happen that, like for some users who complain here, the drone is blocked at a location where the user either has no time to update or has a connectivity issue.
DJI is not supposed to come to my house in the first place - they should not force the update. If they did then may be it would be good that they also come to fix it.
DJI has a closed system and I cannot fix anything. The only thing I can do is to install or re-install what is provided to me.
DJI provides both software and hardware. I have no option to use the hardware with other software.  Even if I could, I bought both from DJI.

Mayday Posted at 2017-7-11 14:56
DJI appear to have initiated something which is either sinister, downright incompetent or a deception which they are not prepared to admit.

The very fact that they have disabled roll back on the firmware is very telling.

Apple for example does not allow to downgrade neither iOS nor apps, but they do not force the updates either.

Aardvark Posted at 2017-7-11 14:15
There's always one

Aardvark, that is clearly a drone with a camo shell being forced to land because of a forced trunk update in a non wifi connected area in the african savannah wilderness!

Alxy Posted at 2017-7-12 04:45
The problem with forced firmware update is resolvable. That's why thousands of owners have no issue. But it can happen that, like for some users who complain here, the drone is blocked at a location where the user either has no time to update or has a connectivity issue.
DJI is not supposed to come to my house in the first place - they should not force the update. If they did then may be it would be good that they also come to fix it.
DJI has a closed system and I cannot fix anything. The only thing I can do is to install or re-install what is provided to me.

That's exactly he problem that many people do not understand (likely because it does not affect them). I believe for most, the forced update in itself is not the issue. The main problem is requiring an update when an update is either inconvenient or impossible at the time. Having a flying machine rendered as not flyable in a situation where the user cannot resolve the issue is the issue.

theGrindLab.com Posted at 2017-7-12 05:42
That's exactly he problem that many people do not understand (likely because it does not affect them). I believe for most, the forced update in itself is not the issue. The main problem is requiring an update when an update is either inconvenient or impossible at the time. Having a flying machine rendered as not flyable in a situation where the user cannot resolve the issue is the issue.

Yes, it would have been much easier for all (I include DJI in this) if there had been a widely publicized warning a couple or three days earlier...  But then there would have been some already in the wilderness and incommunicado, then what? When some fast action is needed (and we could talk for days in a row defining what is "needed" and what is not), somebody will be hit by it. Hopefully a very little minority, and hopefully for  a really important reason.  Yet I wonder how such a new technology has become so important in everyday's  life than apparently it can't be missed even for a very short time.

Antonio76 Posted at 2017-7-12 08:20
Yes, it would have been much easier for all (I include DJI in this) if there had been a widely publicized warning a couple or three days earlier...  But then there would have been some already in the wilderness and incommunicado, then what? When some fast action is needed (and we could talk for days in a row defining what is "needed" and what is not), somebody will be hit by it. Hopefully a very little minority, and hopefully for  a really important reason.  Yet I wonder how such a new technology has become so important in everyday's  life than apparently it can't be missed even for a very short time.

Exactly (again)! They make this great tech and then restrict us from using it at any particular minute of the day as we see fit! How dare they do such a thing! (Sarcasm)

It's sort of like how people are so connected to their mobile device apps and social networks, that when they cannot access them they behave as if the world is ending.

Wait. I'm arguing the wrong point here. Never mind! DJI, please stop grounding our aircraft! We want to fly now, then, and any other time we are ready! While you're at it, stop hiding that new battery tech that will allow us to fly for 8 straight hours on one charge. We know you have that already!

theGrindLab.com Posted at 2017-7-12 09:27
Exactly (again)! They make this great tech and then restrict us from using it at any particular minute of the day as we see fit! How dare they do such a thing! (Sarcasm)

It's sort of like how people are so connected to their mobile device apps and social networks, that when they cannot access them they behave as if the world is ending.

As they say, "Nothing Flies Like a DJI"...

Antonio76 Posted at 2017-7-12 09:59
As they say, "Nothing Flies Like a DJI"...

Wrong, "nothing is grounded like DJI".   

Regards Leif.

Landbo Posted at 2017-7-12 11:14
Wrong, "nothing is grounded like DJI".   

Regards Leif.

I think american people, especially from Nebraska may have gotten the humor...

Antonio76 Posted at 2017-7-12 11:13
I think american people, especially from Nebraska may have gotten the humor...

Perhaps. I simply could not resist.   

Regards Leif.

you forgot to take it out of begginner flight mode. Put it in tripod or speed mode.

Timothyimagery Posted at 2017-7-9 05:36
I randomly get limited range in range, all updates, have logged in on app etc, there is a bug in the software

Limited range is often antenna position or standing under something that blocks signal. Don't stand under roof or car hatch back if flying outside.

Antennas don't put out signal through tips. pointing antennas at drone kills signal. Signal comes out the sides of antennas and must be parralell tot he drone.

Dirty Bird Posted at 2017-7-9 05:32
According to the app description flight is restricted unless connected.  It doesn't say anything about "one time" in DJI's description.

"OR" logged into the app during flight.

Phantomski Posted at 2017-7-10 10:47
Since I also have p3p, what's happening? My p3A is just fine.. p3p I did not update yet.. what's erratic? Like I think I said in one of the posts.. after my first flight with internet, i had no more issues, with or without internet....  perhaps it's enough to take off for a minute with your phone as a hotspot, for each aircraft, and then i would hope u'd be fine....
Hope u can fix it before the vacation is over.....
There were discussions that one way to deal with it, is do not update the app, until the firmware is released and u r ready to go through the process...  but that came out more in the forums, not the official email announcements or warnings in the app, from DJI...

In the U.S. these problems may increase around the 4th. of July. I am a licensed boat captain, and there have been 4 boats that suffered radar failure the Saturday before the 4th. of July. this is traditionally when they set off fireworks. I boat near a top secret military facility. It is possible that the base is sending random jamming signals and false GPS coordinates to foil any terrorist attempts. There have been warnings to expect GPS problems and to navigate with paper charts as a back up. I am not starting a conspiracy theory, but the coast guard has warned of annomilies around the 4th.

And a quote for the Brits amongst us:-

"Don't tell them your name Pike" ....

Alxy Posted at 2017-7-12 04:41
The problem with forced firmware update is resolvable. That's why thousands of owners have no issue. But it can happen that, like for some users who complain here, the drone is blocked at a location where the user either has no time to update or has a connectivity issue.
DJI is not supposed to come to my house in the first place - they should not force the update. If they did then may be it would be good that they also come to fix it.
DJI has a closed system and I cannot fix anything. The only thing I can do is to install or re-install what is provided to me.

Aloha Alxy,

     The issue is not the "forced" update.  That "forced" update can be avoided so there is really no force at all.  I know many people who never updated the firmware or the app.  What is required is that the flier sign in to the DJI servers in order to use the licensed firmware, old or new.  That requirement is at the prerogative of DJI.  In my own experience, I knew for at least a month ahead of time that there would be a sign-in issue and that I had to sign in.  That is why I took the time and I signed in in the ease and security of my own home with Internet access.

     Some have claimed that DJI started announcing the sign-in requirement two months ahead of enforcement of the requirement.  I even got an email to the effect that I would have to sign in.  Hopefully, this clears up some things.

Aloha and Drone On!

This was flown without internet... so no you do NOT need internet once you initialized and powered the motors once after the update WITH internet.. sorry.. I flew enough after the upgrade.. and I just upgraded my PRO, exact same behavior....
360 of Downtown Denver, home distance 1700ft, altitude 800ft....
Perhaps I am just crazy lucky.. which would NOT be normal for me....
Certainly had no internet, the wifi on the tablet was off on purpose....
BUT it was ON for the first flight I meant to be unrestricted after the upgrade....

Cetacean Posted at 2017-7-12 16:55
Aloha Alxy,

     The issue is not the "forced" update.  That "forced" update can be avoided so there is really no force at all.  I know many people who never updated the firmware or the app.  What is required is that the flier sign in to the DJI servers in order to use the licensed firmware, old or new.  That requirement is at the prerogative of DJI.  In my own experience, I knew for at least a month ahead of time that there would be a sign-in issue and that I had to sign in.  That is why I took the time and I signed in in the ease and security of my own home with Internet access.

Than why I was left in the darkness (no email from DJI about required re-signing procedure) until I was already on the move and away from reliable internet access, remains a mystery. Perhaps just bad luck, maybe my ignorance ...

theGrindLab.com Posted at 2017-7-12 05:42
That's exactly he problem that many people do not understand (likely because it does not affect them). I believe for most, the forced update in itself is not the issue. The main problem is requiring an update when an update is either inconvenient or impossible at the time. Having a flying machine rendered as not flyable in a situation where the user cannot resolve the issue is the issue.

And that's exactly what I was trying to say in numerous posts since June 20 when I encountered the issue for the first time. I don't mind to comply, but not now, not on camping trip ...

Dobmatt Posted at 2017-7-12 20:21
Than why I was left in the darkness (no email from DJI about required re-signing procedure) until I was already on the move and away from reliable internet access, remains a mystery. Perhaps just bad luck, maybe my ignorance ...

Aloha Matt,

     Have you written to DJI about the problem?  Do they have your current email address?  I know they made me change my moniker due to their email address policy.  Do you get other emails from them?

     What happened to you is not good for anyone - especially you!  But under the circumstances, you have to solve the problem of why you were not informed even if it is only by email.  Is the DJI email in your SPAM folder?  You really need to find out what happened.

Aloha and Drone On!

Cetacean Posted at 2017-7-13 01:57
Aloha Matt,

     Have you written to DJI about the problem?  Do they have your current email address?  I know they made me change my moniker due to their email address policy.  Do you get other emails from them?

Thank you, Cetacean Brother, for spiritual support . This entire mess with my flock of DJI drones (sporadic, but extremely troubling) got me by surprise in the worst possible scenario: on summer vacation trip around Canadian Rocky Mountains with my camper/house boat. I have life and I don't walk with my laptop 24/7, constantly wired to network ... Perhaps I should and detect the issue before leaving home, but somehow I didn't.

Yes, I must and will take care of it ASAP. Problem is that the very basic idea of this trip assumes aerial photography mostly in wild, remote parts of this country, barely accessible by 4x4 or bush plane. Resolving the issue in such conditions seems to be mission impossible. Since all problems so far were random, sporadic and temporary inflicted, I can only pray and keep my fingers crossed ...

Dobmatt Posted at 2017-7-13 10:00
Thank you, Cetacean Brother, for spiritual support . This entire mess with my flock of DJI drones (sporadic, but extremely troubling) got me by surprise in the worst possible scenario: on summer vacation trip around Canadian Rocky Mountains with my camper/house boat. I have life and I don't walk with my laptop 24/7, constantly wired to network ... Perhaps I should and detect the issue before leaving home, but somehow I didn't.

Yes, I must and will take care of it ASAP. Problem is that the very basic idea of this trip assumes aerial photography mostly in wild, remote parts of this country, barely accessible by 4x4 or bush plane. Resolving the issue in such conditions seems to be mission impossible. Since all problems so far were random, sporadic and temporary inflicted, I can only pray and keep my fingers crossed ...

Aloha Matt,

     You just wrote that to make me jealous.  Look at it this way.  You now have a great excuse to do it again and make me really jealous!

Aloha and Drone On!

Cetacean Posted at 2017-7-13 15:54
Aloha Matt,

     You just wrote that to make me jealous.  Look at it this way.  You now have a great excuse to do it again and make me really jealous!

You know what bucket list is, don't you, Brother Cetacean? If not that, I'll relax, enjoy Mother Nature as much as possible and start planning next year expedition with Pumpkin drone instead ...

Today I had a chance to shoot beautiful alpine scenery of Christina Lake (Latitude 49.1513, Longitude -118.2812). Decided to arm P4P+ for this, all systems check and OK, blessed to fly. Up we go and ... whoa, I'm in warning zone (green)! OK, apparently no big deal, that's not yellow or red NFZ ... I'm prompted to declare either an authorized permit to fly here or full responsibility on my own. Second option check, sent for DJI blessing ... oops, error: no internet connection available! Of course, silly me, what internet when all WiFi sources detected in proximity are owned by local ranchers and farmers, and locked!!!

No worries, I'll get that perfect shot next time ... or maybe not ...

Dobmatt Posted at 2017-7-13 21:15
You know what bucket list is, don't you, Brother Cetacean? If not that, I'll relax, enjoy Mother Nature as much as possible and start planning next year expedition with Pumpkin drone instead ...

Today I had a chance to shoot beautiful alpine scenery of Christina Lake (Latitude 49.1513, Longitude -118.2812). Decided to arm P4P+ for this, all systems check and OK, blessed to fly. Up we go and ... whoa, I'm in warning zone (green)! OK, apparently no big deal, that's not yellow or red NFZ ... I'm prompted to declare either an authorized permit to fly here or full responsibility on my own. Second option check, sent for DJI blessing ... oops, error: no internet connection available! Of course, silly me, what internet when all WiFi sources detected in proximity are owned by local ranchers and farmers, and locked!!!

Given that any bit of water bigger than a football field is likely to have a floatplane landing on it, I would imagine that rules out about 90% of Canada.