johnmaetta@comc Posted at 2015-6-16 09:33
I find it hard to believe that Apple doesn't test their products to operate in warm environments.
...

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/pr ... ipad_mini_with.html

Operating
32 to 95°F (0 to 35°C)
Humidity: 5 - 95%

1.2.6 Test Log:

12pm /  Venezuela /Above 85ºF. / Under the Sun, Trying to induce the condition
Ipad Mini 3 64Gb + 4G / All features on (wifi/cellular)
Hardware decode on
1080 30fps
Lag and Black Screen after 10mins of flight

Tested after 4pm in Venezuela, also Above 85ºF but under the shade of surrounding buildings, some breeze and fresher ambient.
Ipad Mini 3 64Gb + 4G - wifi off / Cel on
Hardware decode on
1080p 30fps
15min flight
-No Lag

Apple:
it is definitely related to Temperature and CPU Overloading,
Keeping the device cool will help a lot.
Not sure if we have to keep hardware decode on or off? Ipad Mini 3 A7 Processor (will run a test under direct sunlight with hardware decode off tomorrow, will post results)


Android:  
tested 1x HTC One with Lollipop 5.0 - Lag/disconnections Started after 5mins
Galaxy A5 with KitKat 4.4.4 - Lag/disconnections After 5mins
LG Optimus with Kitkat 4.4.2 Under direct sunlight Above 85ºF 1 full battery flight - No Lag

Hope it helps.

We are one.

Radikaltech Posted at 2015-6-16 10:11
1.2.6 Test Log:

12pm /  Venezuela /Above 85ºF. / Under the Sun, Trying to induce the condition

Awsome sauce !

Tested iphone 6 plus no case at 8:30 pm dusk conditions 84 F (FLY BY PHONE)  distance 2500 feet alt 200 feet, 18 minutes flight time smooth with just a couple of frame skips in the middle.

Still have the same lag issues on the Samsung Tab S 8.4 with 5.02 with the new firmware 1.27 on the P3A and controller. Have tried everything else I see in the forums in terms of tweaks with the app but no luck.
DJI Pilot app is the only app installed on this tablet (aside form the Samsung crap which I've disabled the majority of).
I'd downgrade to 4.4.2 if I could but the tablet doesn't boot past the 'Samsung' logo after flashing via both Kies or Odin, so I'm stuck on 5.02 now.
I bought this tablet specifically for flying as I'd seen people had been reporting good results in the forums, and although it's not yet 'supported' by DJI, it is one of the top of the line Android tablets and I'm hoping whatever bugfix that corrects the lag on supported tablets, will also fix the problem with the SM-T700.

On the up side, no lag, or at least, acceptable FPV that doesn't worsen through the flight on my Oneplus One phone, so I've just been using that for now - smaller screen though obviously. It has tonnes of other apps installed and running too:

Android 5.02 (Cyanogenmod 12 build LRX22G)
CPU         Quad-core 2.5 GHz Krait 400
GPU Adreno 330
3GB Ram
specs: http://www.gsmarena.com/oneplus_one-6327.php

Screenshot attached of "CPU Temp" app output for a 5 min segment of the flight for the Samsung Tablet that was lagging.

10°C/50°F outside - New Zealand. i.e. a bit chilly

Tahoe_Ed Posted at 2015-6-16 08:56
Here is the update.  There is no update.  DJI R&D is working on the problem for the Android.  For th ...

Tahoe, what you are saying is true but I believe you may (and R&D may as well) be confusing 2 issues here. Let me try to clarify from my engineering point of view (I am a thermal engineer and have been managing satellite thermal engineering as well as electronic packaging for a satellite manufacturer for 26 yrs).

1) We probably can agree that when the CPU temperature exceeds a given limit (which will vary depending on hardware) the device will protect itself from damage by slowing or stopping some processes.
--- For the example, let' assume that CPU limit temp is 125C.

2) The CPU temperature is roughly the sum of 2 temperatures: Ambient Temp + CPU heating Temp (delta T)

3) For a given CPU usage (such as the DJI Pilot App) the CPU usage will create a fixed dissipation (let's say for a set usage and time).  That dissipation will elevate the CPU by a fixed delta T.

--- As an example, let's say the iPad CPU temperature may elevate 85C when running DJI Pilot App. During a normal 25C day: Tcpu = 20C + 85C = 105C.

So what you are experiencing indicates that when you fly in winter conditions (which are 30 C cooler I assume), your CPU is doing fine, but it is at less than 30C from its limit since when you fly in summer it overheat.  This is with the same application, usage and CPU (tablet).
--- Tahoe iPad Tcpu in summer = 45C + 85C = 130C (exceeds 125C, then problems)

4) Your problem is one of marginal CPU temperature whereby you exceed the CPU temp limit only when the tablet is starting at a higher temp.

5) Now what is happening with the current DJI Pilot app is strongly indicating 2 things:
   - It definitely seems to be a thermal problem (when judging from the very similar symptoms between your problem and those of the many users)
   - There is also a clear indication that CPU temperatures (for many tablets, approved and not) have increased after either 1.1.9 and/or lollipop, since the thermal symptoms have propagated to configurations that were previously fine in a wide variety of conditions.

In conclusion, your observations don't contradict necessarily those of the users, but your conclusions should not stop at the thermal problem (which is common to you and the users).  DJI needs to identify the root cause of this new higher temperatures and I am no S/W specialist, but it is very likely that a programmer can do one thing in ways that can tax the CPU more than it should.  

There is most likely be a very inefficient piece of code in the latest firmware.  

Sorry for the long story, but this thread was already way too long   

Interestingly, I just did another test flight, laggy as expected with the Samsung Tablet - landed it and taped aluminium foil on the top of the P3 and took it up again (no P3 power off, no app restart) and wow, the FPV was flawless and smooth on the tablet - better than I've experienced before.

Flew it about for a couple of minutes enjoying the buttery FPV experience, and quite fortuitously, the tin foil came off (causing an impressive display off glitter as it was cut up by the rotors) and FPV was instantly laggy and unusable as the satellites were acquired. Quite a telling little experiment really.

Be interested to see if others have a similar experience placing a tin foil hat on your P3? Much harder to fly without GPS though.

Okay,  so updated to 1.2.6... I have a generic android tablet,  an LG G3,  and both severe lag.. I bought a nvidia shield tablet for my son a couple months ago,  tried it just for fun... Very very little lag... Something else,  it wouldn't update controller with the 64gb mcsd card,  put file on the 16gb card that came with it   and it updated just  fine... Must be a limit on the controller..... I guess I'll be Getting a new tablet...  

johnmaetta@comc Posted at 2015-6-16 09:33
I find it hard to believe that Apple doesn't test their products to operate in warm environments.
...

Check the specs.  95F is the max operating temp.

lexluther Posted at 2015-6-16 09:35
It's 54 degrees here in the mornings so I will test my drone and see how long it takes before the la ...

If you are on an Android device follow the recommendations.  Also make sure that there is no skin or case on the unit.  I have used mine in the 70's, a non-recommended S4 and it was fine.  But at 95-96F it also had issues.  I took it out of the cooler at 79F and within 4 minutes it was at 128F.  There are many factors in this.  That is why so many users have recommendations that work for them but not for someone else.  If this were a simple problem it would have already been solved.

serge.samson@md Posted at 2015-6-16 11:41
Tahoe, what you are saying is true but I believe you may (and R&D may as well) be confusing 2 issu ...

Thank you Serge.  Your post was very well stated and thought out.  I do not disagree at all.  This is a complex problem.  Users have been able to reduce the CPU usage through a variety of means.  That also translates into reduced heat.  I will pass you analysis along to R&D.

After several test and experiments with my android Galaxy s5 and Galaxy tab s there was nothing that would resolve the app lag and freezing I've experienced after upgrading to 1.1.9. Tonight I Bit the bullet and purchased an iPad mini 2. I'll test it in the morning and hopefully be lag free!

Tahoe_Ed please tell us !!!



When lag, stutter, jerky fpv with android device is going to be fixed ?

venturedrone Posted at 2015-6-16 12:49
After several test and experiments with my android Galaxy s5 and Galaxy tab s there was nothing that ...

Yep, you'll be lag free...Untill the next FW upgrade! LoL!

need to know when ?

Tahoe_Ed Posted at 2015-6-16 08:56
Here is the update.  There is no update.  DJI R&D is working on the problem for the Android.  For th ...

I have no lag increase in flying. I have huge CPU overload caused by something connected with GPS in drone.
Turn off Google Play Services and problemwith overload is gone, but then maps do not work (but positioning still work, and even i have 12 GPS there is no CPU overload, no lag and stuttering)

Lag and stuttering is starting when i get CPU load at beyond 85%.  When i disable google play services i have 55% CPU load, WITH satellites positioning, but without map.

And the now will be the most curious part:
- Run DJI app and buffer map (load at 85%), stuttering, lags
- in background disable Google Play Services
- return to DJI (from background, do not close/open)
- and now you have lag and stuttering free piloting, with buffered map and fully GPS positioning, and at load 55% CPU.

And this huge CPU load may in some cases be a cause for thermal problem and CPU throttling down (not mine, but some others).
If you fix huge CPU load connected with GPS, you will solve the thermal problem too, maybe even on both platform.
We all posting here our speculation, we made tests, we trying to help DJI and devel team to find a solution or give some information.

Temperatures in my country are about 75F (23C)

My experience with a Google Nexus 9 - perhaps it helps someone:
I bought a Google Nexus 9, for nothing else but the phantom 3.
About two weeks ago, wonderful weather (+/- 85° F), everything worked more than fine. A huge pleasure!
Now, after all recommended updates (I always did immediately), video-stream is from very slow already at the beginning to freezing (within about 5 minutes), on same weather conditions (+/- 85° F), tested at the same place, same time of the day, flight distance about 600 ft.

Tahoe, the problem is not the temperature, I flight with 22 degree weather like a month ago..

How do you explain the problem with the satellites ? because it is a reality.

Try it , let the drone take satellites , 8 or more , and see how much lag.

When you have many satellites , put your hand on the GPS and let lose coverage , and see how the lag disappears.

The test is very easy to do.

How do you explain that ? with the same ambient temperature for a month. No heat.

Please do not investigate the issue of temperature that wasting your time and never have fixed the problems .

Investigate the CPU resources to drone using satellites , because there is the real problem . Drone processor resources . No processor resources of the tablet.

New insertion of v1.2.7. P3A
The equipment and P3A are updated
LG nexus 5 phone
The result is even more logs than on 1.1.9.
The mode полетй on the lelefena and its peregagruzka before flight.
Don't help.
Result of LAG LAG LAG

Kyokushin Posted at 2015-6-16 13:28
I have no lag increase in flying. I have huge CPU overload caused by something connected with GPS i ...

Ah, interesting. I will try that tomorrow. I have noticed the com.google.process.gapps process has quite high cpu usage and has crashed on occasion while using DJI Pilot app on both my laggy, and 'non-laggy' Android devices.

Just did a test, same P3Pro, hooked up a note 4, note 3 and a sony z3, all showed stuttering and excessive lags. Then hooked up an iphone 6 and an ipad 3 mini, both worked great!
Makes me think this is more of an android app issue than an issue with the actual P3. By the way I did this after performing the latest 6-15-15 update.

ben_m16 Posted at 2015-6-16 14:31
Tahoe, the problem is not the temperature, I flight with 22 degree weather like a month ago..

How d ...

Look at CPU load on Your tablet. Lag and stuttering when your tablet CPU is under heavy load, and he is under heavy load when you have GPS satellites and google play services turned on.
If you have iOS - then i do not know. Maybe something similar.

Kyokushin Posted at 2015-6-16 15:06
Look at CPU load on Your tablet. Lag and stuttering when your tablet CPU is under heavy load, and h ...

my cpu is not at heavy load and its still stuttering
don't think it has anything to do with the load on your phone / tablet

app should run perfectly even at  90% load
mine wont go higher then 47 % and there is still lag and stuttering

m.vos2@quicknet Posted at 2015-6-16 15:25
my cpu is not at heavy load and its still stuttering
don't think it has anything to do with the lo ...

So problem is more complex.

Kyokushin Posted at 2015-6-16 15:26
So problem is more complex.

yea I am not sure where the problems comes from
could be the Lightbridge system

since yesterday and  factory reset my note 3
put it back to android 4.4.2
upgraded the phantom and controller to 1.2.6
started to hover and had stutter immediately
landed killed all running apps in back ground and foreground
and still had stutter
cpu load was only 47 % while hovering  with 11 sats locked

Nexus 9 here:

On my side, I hardly can imagine it is a Sat-Lock-Problem or CPU-Problem. First it worked very fine and smooth on my Nexus 9 and now it's horrible.

16 Sats locked before were NO problem ... already 9 - 12 Sats locked now and huge problems.

CPU-Usage should be more or less the same before and now ...

I am no expert, but maybe this helps those who understand more than me ...

dineli Posted at 2015-6-16 16:45
Nexus 9 here:

On my side, I hardly can imagine it is a Sat-Lock-Problem or CPU-Problem. First it w ...

yea I agree don't think its a cpu load issue or sat lock issue  there is just something wrong on the phantoms side

Here, in french non official DJI forum, we have a strange case : Most of Tab S 8.4 SM-T700 have lag. But one of us have the same Tab S SM-T700 without lag ! So, it seems that not all of Tab S T700 have the same kernel ?... So, probably not the same hardware inside ?! Perhaps something around that ?...

Link to Tab S T700 without lag http://www.djiphantom-forum.com/ ... t-impossible#176429

Just throwing it out there, someone may have already and I'm too lazy to read 15 pages of thread

If GPS acquisition is connected to lag in the device, then the question I'd be asking is, what's going on with the code for the map?

Is it looping/updating to the extent that it causes the CPU to melt down?

I suspect it's a very simple problem, not a complex one. Because the silliest, simple problems, are usually the hardest ones to find (because usually your looking too hard and get tunnel vision).

vincent.zorzi Posted at 2015-6-16 17:50
Here, in french non official DJI forum, we have a strange case : Most of Tab S 8.4 SM-T700 have lag. ...

Some people reported earlier here that cutting the GPS signal "solved" the lag problem (of course this is not a solution).
And 1.1.9 FW update bring us the ability to change the home point... which is of course also related to GPS. Maybe DJI has to search in this direction.

Maybe could you ask in this french forum to some guys to make this test (cover the quad with alu paper) so it'll confirm this fact. I cannot make this test as I'm a happy iOS user
(I'm also registered on this french forum but not active as I don't like the way it is managed by the administrator and the amount of stupid questions from guys who never try to find answers from themselves)

DJI, I'm really concerned about the way this is handled, I think I will just buy 50 of these instead of a P3A and raid your HQ:

CHANGE YOUR BITRATE!!!

I have both the Note 4 and now I recently purchased an ipad mini 3. I bought the mini 3 due to lag issues but also for a larger screen. The first thing I noticed when using the mini 3 with the P3 was that the video feed wasn't as sharp. It was slightly pixelated.

The reason why it is (slightly) pixelated is that the video feed defaults to 4Mb/sec rather than 6Mb/sec on the Note 4. That's when I started wondering if I changed the bitrate to 4Mb/sec on the Note 4 if it would reduce or eliminate video lag/hesitation.

Sure enough...it did the trick!

Unfortunately the only way I know how to change the video feed bandwidth is to manually select the video channel. Once you manually select the channel (be sure to pick a channel with the lowest noise and adjacent channels show the same.), scroll down and move the slider all the way to the left to 4Mb/sec.

Keeping the video feed to 4Mb/sec should help if not completely eliminate the problem.

How do you change it?

Go to Settings (4 dots), go to HD (box around the letters), select "Custom" and change your channel to a low-noise channel, then scroll down and move the slider to the left and select 4Mb/sec.

AJ

FLYMN Posted at 2015-6-16 20:25
CHANGE YOUR BITRATE!!!

I have both the Note 4 and now I recently purchased an ipad mini 3. I bought ...

yea I suggested that one a couple pages back but it was missing from the new app but seems if you select a channel manualy it shows up again
eventough still strange on old fw this worked just fine
will test tonight when I get home

m.vos2@quicknet Posted at 2015-6-16 20:30
yea I suggested that one a couple pages back but it was missing from the new app but seems if you s ...

There is no difference on mine between 4 and 10 Mbits, auto or manual

If my CPU load is < 85% it works fine.

Hey guys, just saw on Facebook, a guy opened 2 P3 controllers, one had a fan (cooling fan like PC) whereas,the other controller didn't have the fan! Could this be the problem leading to overheating?

Kevin Stewart Posted at 2015-6-16 21:50
Hey guys, just saw on Facebook, a guy opened 2 P3 controllers, one had a fan (cooling fan like PC) w ...

pretty sure none of the p3 controllers have a fan
however the phantom 3 prof gimbal does have one
also there is no evidence for anything overheating  related to this problem

My Phantom 3 Advanced remote control have a fan. I can hear it.

ben_m16 Posted at 2015-6-16 22:08
My Phantom 3 Advanced remote control have a fan. I can hear it.

realy ?  you sure its a fan my controller has no holes where air can even come into the controller

Kevin, can you put a photo here?? both RC.....

Yes I have a fun, i can hear it rotating........

ben_m16 Posted at 2015-6-16 22:12
Kevin, can you put a photo here?? both RC.....

Yes I have a fun, i can hear it rotating........

humz that's weird makes no sense putting a fan in a closed enclosure