epicaerialbd Posted at 2015-9-19 11:20
This is not gonna fixed with Firmware update as far as i can understand. Because higher bitrate will ...

SanDisk Extreme Pro Micro is spec'd to 95MB's. It'll never hit that consistently of course but it'll definitely hit 12.5MB/s consistently (less than 15% of it's rated/listed speed) - which is all you need for 100Mbps recording.

DJI not including better encoding in the X5 is either a deliberate crippling to push pro's up to the X5R OR, more likely, it's them re-using the encoding and processing tech from the X3 platform to save R&D cost. Long/short - this is probably an encoder issue; it's definitely not a storage bandwidth issue.

If that the latter is the case, the X5 is probably forever limited to consumer grade / non-production video use (8-bit 4k @ 60Mbps 4:2:0).

Mkell_CA_SF.BAY Posted at 2015-9-11 13:07
I think jumping from the x5 to the x5r will be a matter of what format you want to ultimately finish ...

Why would they stay with an 8 bit chip when jumping to larger chip?  Professional photographers like myself have been waiting for a better quality still camera.  It does very little good to just have larger pixels unless you get more data bits per pixel to increase the quality of the image.  They say they are outputting .dng raw files even from the X3 but it still looks like a jpg with all the artifacts because they don't have enough bits per pixels to better define the images.  I have clients that want 40X60 prints and I can't give them anything larger than a 20X30 from the X3 without it looking like crap.  Has anyone seen a sample dng file from the X5 yet?  Please let me know where if you have!  I can't justify $2300 unless they files are a whole lot better quality than the X3.

Mkell_CA_SF.BAY Posted at 2015-9-11 13:07
I think jumping from the x5 to the x5r will be a matter of what format you want to ultimately finish ...

Why would they stay with an 8 bit chip when jumping to larger chip?  Professional photographers like myself have been waiting for a better quality still camera.  It does very little good to just have larger pixels unless you get more data bits per pixel to increase the quality of the image.  They say they are outputting .dng raw files even from the X3 but it still looks like a jpg with all the artifacts because they don't have enough bits per pixels to better define the images.  I have clients that want 40X60 prints and I can't give them anything larger than a 20X30 from the X3 without it looking like crap.  Has anyone seen a sample dng file from the X5 yet?  Please let me know where if you have!  I can't justify $2300 unless they files are a whole lot better quality than the X3.

Very odd that DJI put the same X3 codec into X5.  The worst thing about the X3 was the codec :/

Dragonflyin Posted at 2015-9-19 12:31
That was awesome, thanks for presenting such a clear perspective on how close they are to what a l ...

If nobody buys, they will change ! Competitors are coming up, DJI is not the only one anymore. Prices will go down. BTW in changing firmware they are surely not at the top.... ask the spreading wingers !

Renaat Posted at 2015-9-25 09:44
If nobody buys, they will change ! Competitors are coming up, DJI is not the only one anymore. Pri ...

Lets hope so.  

What are the spreading wingers saying?

Burlingtonfilms Posted at 2015-10-3 04:48
Lets hope so.  

What are the spreading wingers saying?

open the forum of spreading wings, you will find out that, nevertheless problems we had with the I1, with the Spreading Wings it is worse.

For a comparison  purposes:
- Panasonic GH4 (on S900 and Zenmuse) can record internally H.264 4:2:0 8bit 100Mbit/sec. Soon there will be 100USD option for V-Log L gama, bit it stil does not ship...
- Sony A7S II (on S900 and Zenmuse when it becomes avaiable) can record internally H.264 4:2:0 8bit at 100Mbit/sec or at 60Mbit/sec (bandwidth selectable in menu). There is perfect S-Log 3 gama.
- Atomos Ninja Assasin and Atomos Shogun (added to S900 system)  can utilize HDMI output of a camera and record Apple ProRes 422 HQ at 220Mbit/sec, or Avid DNxHR HQX - Panasonic GH4 provides 10bit color on HDMI, while Sony A7S II provides just 8bit color over HDMI
- ultimate rig for arial videography would be GH4+Ninja Assasin on S900 w. Zenmuse, while ultimate arial photography would be Sony A7R II on s900 with any gimbal

Some thoughts and analysis...
I can conclude that X5 is on par with low  "semi-pro" specs, and it  costs less then GH4+Zenmuse.... Drone shooting does have lot of motion in a frame so higher bandwidth would be most significant upgrade -still,  if X5 got H264 4:2:0 8bit 100Mbit/sec recorder then just purists and high-end pros would consider X5R option, while in the same time high-end pros would surely preffer RED Raven, Dragon or Alexa Mini  on large octacopter with Movi  gimbal... So DJI is trying to push X5R to low budget semi-broadcast professional productions, while standard X5 is more for photographers and event videographers... For average panorama-style user X3 is fair, simple and efficient choice, bit of you would like better lenses and photos X5 is fair option (Inspire 1 pro should cost 4000USD/EUR), while for high-end videography X5R is way to go (GH4+Ninja Assasin has price of cca 3000USD/EUR so fair price for Inspire 1 + X5R would be max 6000USD/EUR) - so X5 options are overpriced by aprox 15% to 25% just for their nice looks and nice software imterfaces,,,

SimplePanda Posted at 2015-9-12 02:29
The other major advantage to CinemaDNG is the ability to re-capture crushed highlights in many cas ...

Mr. Panda:

In many years as a DP and shooting with Arri Alexas, F5,F55, etc..I rarely shoot RAW. Even with Arri Alexa I shoot Prores and most of my coleagues do exactly the same. The ammount of data stored on a simple minute take it´s beyond crazy. What I think DJI should do is to include Prores 422 on their cameras (even Prores LT is 10bit). If BMD shoots Prores to an SD card why this nonsense of raw when we can have a huge quality by recording prores? That is why even the X5 doesn´t have the quality needed for a camera like that. I bet the X5R is exactly the same camera but records raw. From what I know the X5R also records Prores. Why not include the Prores on the X5? I really don´t need RAW ever. Even when I use a RED I always export to prores the whole shots and work from there. Unless something is terribly off Prores handles grading very very well. Not to mention the time that will take in between flights to download the 400 or 500gb from the SSD while the DP and the whole crew will go nuts because they are waiting for the "drone people" to be ready to restart shooting.

nquinn2 Posted at 2015-9-22 00:50
Why would they stay with an 8 bit chip when jumping to larger chip?  Professional photographers li ...

I did see a frame and even footage from the X5R. I just use the X5 to shoot video not stills. I don´t think the codec is solid. Actually it is crap. The DNG will be a problem. Too much data for the quality it has. I saw the X5R footage and I saw a lot of artifacts that I don´t think will go away. Either they gives us a 10 bit codec (which they can because this is after all a Panasonic sensor) or try to push the X5R which will be IMHO too expensive to risk buying taking into account that it has a fixed SSD and huge ammount of data to process. The chip can output 10bit like the GH4 does...

polycord.gmail Posted at 2015-10-26 11:25
Mr. Panda:

In many years as a DP and shooting with Arri Alexas, F5,F55, etc..I rarely shoot RAW.  ...

@polycord.gmail: re: ProRes, absolutely. There was a good article I just read about Downton Abbey. Shot on Alexa to ProRes 4444. So yeah, you can get amazing detail from ProRes. I've done tons of projects on BMD straight to 422 HQ (BMD Film) and never had an issue. Easier in post, etc.

Where DNG will really excel for aerial is in the highlight recovery. Stray, uncontrollable reflections are legion in aerial applications.

The X5R doesn't shoot ProRes. Just CinemaDNG and H.264 proxy files to an SD card. To my knowledge, ProRes encoding requires certification and Apple are VERY picky about this process. Even RED cameras just started shipping ProRes with the Weapon upgrade (and it'll be on the Raven apparently).

As for the X5 and X5R being the same camera... not sure but I doubt it. They may be the same sensor unit but the X5 uses the same camera SoC as a GoPro Hero 4 and to my knowledge this isn't capable of RAW recording. I'm guessing the delay on the X5R is for this very reason - the X5R is an entirely different system once the light comes off the sensor.

There's also the whole "Log" vs "DJI Log" issue between the X5 and X5R. As far as I can tell, "Log" On the X3/X5 is just a CineStyle curve (makes sense - again, given the similarity to a GoPro and the fact that GoPro Protune == CineStyle). The DJI Log system on the X5R seems like it's new colour science and probably has specific processing that the X5 can't / won't handle.

Which is only 3.5% of total bytes camera sees

epicaerialbd Posted at 2015-9-19 23:20
This is not gonna fixed with Firmware update as far as i can understand. Because higher bitrate will ...

Do you realize the bitrates in which i.e. the BMPCC records at to SD cards? SOny records XDcam 422 10bit to SD cards why not the X5? To me Prores any flavour would be enough.

SimplePanda Posted at 2015-10-27 02:17
@polycord.gmail: re: ProRes, absolutely. There was a good article I just read about Downton Abbey.  ...

I totally agree with you but when I said the same camera I meant the same sensor as you very well clarified. Even H264 could have higher bitrate. There is a huge gap between H264 60 and DNG RAW. I always thought the X5 had a similar codec to the GH4. Never believed a Panasonic sensor not having the same codec as a proven camera. At the same time I don´t see where the X5 fits in the production workflow. There isn´t much difference from X3 to X5 if we talk about final image...I sold my Inspire1 to get the Pro and now I am stuck with a camera that didn´t add anything to my workflow. At least I would need to have a way of testing the camera properly on the ground isntead of testing the profiles while flying and not so controlled environement.

rsghowellnj@gma Posted at 2015-9-12 08:07
Any speculation on the price of the X5R?

Which guarantees do we have the image from the X5R is up to standard? The X5 is not what  I expected. Do you know the Red raven body only costs the same as the X5R?

SimplePanda Posted at 2015-9-12 08:59
There is a major practical difference between what an external recorder does and what CinemaDNG pro ...

I saw the footage from the soccer pitch and around the lights there was a huge purple halo and I was told that footage was shot with the X5R. I wasn´t so  pleased with that. The car/sunset image was amazing but I might have been studied to work out that well. I love M43 sensors I think DJI has to imporve the codecs. Not releasing a new X5S or something like it that records in a higher bitrate or different codec.

Right now its a joke, they use sensor capable of 260 Mbps in X3/X5 and give us 60? Which is only 3.5% of raw information off sensor. Red One at 3k will give you 256 Mbps, BMPCC for $900 will give you 500 Mbps in raw, it's 2015, my phone records at 50

Capt_M Posted at 2015-11-4 01:39
Right now its a joke, they use sensor capable of 260 Mbps in X3/X5 and give us 60? Which is only 3.5 ...

The X5 is an awesome camera hobbled by the same terrible X3 codec.  

The X5R looks promising with RAW output and 12 stops of DR.

Burlingtonfilms Posted at 2015-11-4 10:49
The X5 is an awesome camera hobbled by the same terrible X3 codec.  

The X5R looks promising with ...

Any word yet on the release date for the X5R other then "November"?

Does anyone know what color space X5r records in?  4:2:2?  4:2:0?  Certainly not 4:4:4...thank you!