For it to be in top ten , and for it to happen so often I think a change needs not be made . Funny how they mention how csc is one of the main resonances amongst others , but had NO explanation for all the random FALL FROM SKY ISSUES many users were having too too long ago . Where's the explanation there ? Was it csc related also with all the other FALL FROM SKY phantoms ? Transparent on pilot error cases but opaque for warranty related one?

iherzog97 Posted at 2016-3-15 04:27
You have the video Ken. Just look the flight log and the dynamics of the drone. You are wrong, per ...

As I said before, I am sorry for your crash from executing a CSC mid air. The video I have is the same as you have. I was asking for a simulator video showing normal flight and stick movements.

DJI-Ken Posted at 2016-3-14 17:37
As I said before, I am sorry for your crash from executing a CSC mid air. The video I have is the  ...

SO you have actual DATA that PROVES I was just flying. Nevertheless DJI acknowledges that CSC is number 1 reason for flight error. And what is DJI advice for that: NONE.
This is just too much money for DJI be just sorry...

There is an issue with DJI drones. According to DJI, CSC is the main reason for pilot error. The users' manual has only one note about the danger performing CSC in mid air. Many people are loosing their expensive drones and DJI states that they intend to do nothing about it.
This information has to be communicated outside this community. People are being hammered with marketing campaigns about how wonderful and easy to fly the DJI Phantom are. They do not know the DJI culture about solving problems, hearing their customers and considering changes in their products.
I strongly encourage everyone to replicate this information to elsewhere.
Then, maybe, DJI will act like some great companies like Apple: with respect to its customers, good customer service communication and respect above all.

iherzog97 Posted at 2016-3-15 04:58
There is an issue with DJI drones. According to DJI, CSC is the main reason for pilot error. The use ...

No one ever said CSC was the main reason for crashes.
In fact, out of all the aircraft that come in for repair, only a few come in for CSC crashes.

DJI-Ken Posted at 2016-3-15 09:10
No one ever said CSC was the main reason for crashes.
In fact, out of all the aircraft that come i ...

Ken, if you are going to say that, then you might consider removing this item or revising it: http://forum.dji.com/thread-44495-1-4.html

Because this is where these people are getting their information from to hammer you with "DJI said".

Conflicting info from Dji ? Say it ain't so

DJI-Ken Posted at 2016-3-15 09:10
No one ever said CSC was the main reason for crashes.
In fact, out of all the aircraft that come i ...

I don't think DJI needs to change CSC at all.
But DJI needs to change their ridiculous Top 10 causes of crashes post and video because it's obvious to anyone with any experience that accidental CSC is not the number one cause of crashes and is so rare that it probably isn't even in the top 10.
Threads like this appear every few weeks and there are many that will not be convinced by any amount of reasoning because while DJI spread this nonsense, it scares inexperienced flyers that take as fact because it comes from DJI.

Geebax Posted at 2016-3-15 08:28
Ken, if you are going to say that, then you might consider removing this item or revising it: http ...

Removing it or revising it doesn't change the fact that DJI have said it. Be it right or be it wrong they are damned if they do damned if they don't, if they revise it (and don't release the data to back it up) they are covering it up. If they don't, they acknowledge a problem that they're doing nothing about. There is plenty of evidence that it's an issue because ppl have accidentally executed it or had issues when executing it deliberately (as per the DJI manual) on landing. It simply does not make sense to have a CSC command on flight controls-period. For newer people this does seem to be an issue, these people are the ones that DJI should be nurturing and taking all means to help. The only reason I've seen given for not changing or improving it is "I'm experienced and knowledgeable and won't do it accidentally" - worst reason ever!

This is soooo easy to fix and stop all the bloody arguments and dissatisfaction, I cannot comprehend why it would not be done.  

For the old-timers we will continue to use their products because we have the skill to adapt.
For the newer guys it's one less thing they have to worry about whilst learning to fly their new toy. I just don't see the downside.

DJI-Ken Posted at 2016-3-14 18:10
No one ever said CSC was the main reason for crashes.
In fact, out of all the aircraft that come i ...

I agree with you Ken.........just couldn't keep quite anymore...........the video says "The Top 10 Most Common Pilot Errors" Not " The Top 10 Most Common Pilot Errors Ranked From 1 to 10".  

In any event "Pilot Error" means just that.....it was a "Pilot Error".  I don't see where Tim posted a video that says "The Top 10 Most Common DJI Design Faults (Based on Consumer Usage)".......that could be a video that goes for an hour or more.

When I got my P3 a year ago, I studied the manual and forum for a week before I took my P3 up......full disclosure, I never had anything like this (P3).   Got it up, flew a few days, got confident and thought I was "The Man".   Hot footed it across my yard toward my house at top speed, let go of the sticks because in the DJI Manual and literature, the Phantom would stop and hover in place.   Hmmmmm....guest I did not realize that inertia dictates that letting go of the controls does not mean it stops like it hits a wall at its exact position,at the very spot you let go of the controls.   Unfortunately that's what it did, hit a wall....of my house..............DAMN, Why didn't DJI tell me that would happen! Very expensive lesson (as in destroyed lesson!)
As Forrest Gump says "Stupid Is As Stupid Does"....and I am talking about myself only here. Dead P3.....Dead ego.

I can tell you from an experience perspective.....a CSC can only be preformed if the person is not familiar with what a CSC can do OR.......
Lets say for a moment that you ARE trying to preform a maneuver that would demand a Down-And-In or a Down-And-Out stick input.....aren't you fluent enough with your craft to know what the results of that will be?  Are you intentionally trying to do the input or are you just trying to get real close?  
That's the part that baffles me.......IF you know the consequences, WHY would you ever get even close to doing it?  What's the upside?

Ken you should be thanked for your help and your patience......I think your restrain has been admirable!  Well Done

DJI-Ken Posted at 2016-3-14 13:14
It is designed that way, so it certainly is not a design problem.
And in the case of your scenario ...

I guess engineers and support people think differently. An engineer would look at this and think "Some users are accidentally crashing their expensive drones when they unintentionally perform a CSC in the air. I should really fix that."

I am going to guess that CSC is there in case someone needs to stop their drone in a dire emergency. I wonder how many times that has actually been used successfully as opposed to being triggered by accident? Since I don't stop my drone that way normally, I don't think it would pop into my head in time to avoid disaster. I think of that action as the way to start the drone not to stop it. I stop it by holding down the throttle until the motors stop once it is on the ground or in my hand. I really think that if it is safety that is the reason for this whole CSC fiasco, a nice glowing red emergency button would be the way to go. It would probably occur to me to press that in an emergency.

grangerfx@gmail Posted at 2016-3-14 20:04
I guess engineers and support people think differently. An engineer would look at this and think "S ...

A good point, and they probably do.......but I, on my own, have tested CSC in the simulator at least 30 or more times for no other reason then I have the practice NOT to do it.............. unless it is an emergency.

tmygun1 Posted at 2016-3-14 18:40
I agree with you Ken.........just couldn't keep quite anymore...........the video says "The Top 10 ...

He gets a check from Dji of course he does what he does ! Do you get a check ?

mal6514 Posted at 2016-3-14 20:15
He gets a check from Dji of course he does what he does ! Do you get a check ?

Not at all.....sorry to disappoint you.

mal6514 Posted at 2016-3-15 08:15
He gets a check from Dji of course he does what he does ! Do you get a check ?

I do get a check form DJI, but I've also been a DJI user for many years and have hundreds and hundreds of flight hours on DJI aircraft and I have never once even came close to getting the sticks to the CSC position.
And I've been flying the P4 quite a lot lately and even flying very aggressively in Sport mode I still cannot see how anyone can move the sticks into that position.

Geebax Posted at 2016-3-15 06:28
Ken, if you are going to say that, then you might consider removing this item or revising it: http ...

Well, even it it is one of the top 10 pilot errors, I still think it's low on the list. But that's just my opinion.The CSC has been like that since the beginning, and I don't think it's going to change.

DJI-Ken Posted at 2016-3-14 19:10
No one ever said CSC was the main reason for crashes.
In fact, out of all the aircraft that come i ...

DJI-Tim said in the video presented in this forum.
I gave up debating it. It's crystal clear that there is a hidden agenda in DJI refusal to consider changing CSC.
I'm focusing my energy to make all of this public.
I've published a review in Amazon.com. Going to do the same in Apple Store.
Starting to connect with main people that talks these drones.

DJI-Ken Posted at 2016-3-15 10:40
I do get a check form DJI, but I've also been a DJI user for many years and have hundreds and hund ...

Humour me for a moment here please Ken,
Put your own personal skill and experience to the side for this exercise.
If you were one of the reportedly thousands of new users  and not necessarily one of those geeky new users that read every detail on their new purchase before opening the box, but a Joe-average that's been sold an amazing flying camera from his best-buy outlet. (The truth is it's those novice users probably represent the bulk of DJI customers rather than those of us on this forum).  So you're a flyer new not only to drones but to RC that is keen to learn but also keen to replicate the results he's seen in the promo material and has been told "it's easy to fly" (it is easy to fly).

Do you believe it would be better for you (if you were the noob described above) if there was no way you could execute a CSC using the normal flight controls?
(but still had some kind of CSC available if needed)

DJI-Ken Posted at 2016-3-14 21:40
I do get a check form DJI, but I've also been a DJI user for many years and have hundreds and hund ...

So you're blind because the facts is that many people are moving the sticks in the CSC position. Maybe you believe that all these people are crazy and have a desire to destroy their over $1000 drones.
Come on!!! Be reasonable.

DJI-Ken Posted at 2016-3-14 19:40
I do get a check form DJI, but I've also been a DJI user for many years and have hundreds and hund ...

So Dji dictates how you respond on these Dji forums  . One of your very own ( Dji-Tim ) made a video specifically naming csc and other pilot related Problems but u say that it isn't even close . So who are we to believe a guy that works for Dji that made a video or a guy that works for Dji to specifically maintain a forum ?

Mike_fnq Posted at 2016-3-15 09:13
Humour me for a moment here please Ken,
Put your own personal skill and experience to the side for ...

If I was totally new to RC drones and never had one before I would be 100% sure that if I spent $1,000 on one I would learn the manual and everything I could before even attempting to fly it.
So I would have seen in the manual that executing a CSC would kill the motors.
But even besides that, as I've explained before is I just cant see during normal flight would sticks even come close to a CSC position.

DJI did their research and didn't come up with the CSC procedure on a whim.

iherzog97 Posted at 2016-3-15 09:17
So you're blind because the facts is that many people are moving the sticks in the CSC position. M ...

I personally only know a few cases.
One guy had a brand new Inspire Pro and he was at 400ft and did the CSC.
He totally admitted that it was 100% his fault and he wished that he wouldn't have done it.

DJI-Ken Posted at 2016-3-15 12:55
If I was totally new to RC drones and never had one before I would be 100% sure that if I spent $1 ...

You and I know it's not true but while DJI have that stupid Top 10 list telling them that accidental CSC is a big problem they are just feeding this nonsense.
Scared inexperienced flyers believe it and no amount of explanation will convince them.

Leave that Top 10 misinformation as it is and deal with this every week.

DJI-Ken Posted at 2016-3-15 11:55
If I was totally new to RC drones and never had one before I would be 100% sure that if I spent $1 ...

Wish you had of answered the question in a honest and forthright manner.

Do you honestly believe "hand on heart" that the current CSC is perfect and cannot be improved on in any wave shape or form?

Mike_fnq Posted at 2016-3-15 10:38
Wish you had of answered the question in a honest and forthright manner.

Do you honestly believe  ...

I believe nothing is perfect, and I believe the current CSC is totally fine.
As I kept saying before, I honestly do not know and flight maneuver that would make you do a CSC.
If there was a quicker way to shut the motors off in an emergency maybe they would look at it.
I know you want a kill switch that does not use the sticks but DJI believes this is the best way, otherwise they would change it.
And again, in my hundreds or hours or flying I have never come close to putting the sticks in the CSC position.

DJI-Ken Posted at 2016-3-15 13:05
I believe nothing is perfect, and I believe the current CSC is totally fine.
As I kept saying befo ...

I have never suggested nor asked for a "kill switch", I have previously suggested "power" and "RTH" simultaneously (a combination that has no in-flight application whatsoever). But this may not be ideal, it's just a thought.

Here's a flight manoeuvre that DJI suggest (and recommend) using the CSC for - landing.
Absolutely crazy to put those control inputs soo close to the ground (well actually on it!).

Most of DJIs customers don't have your experience, but so many experienced flyers seem to  want to ignore that; it's the "I'm OK jack" approach.

The CSC procedure has changed for the Phantom 4, Phantom 3 remains the same.
To stop motors during flight, pull the left stick to the bottom inside corner while simultaneously pressing the Smart RTH button.
And that will be after the P4 RC is updated to the latest firmware.

Bout time !! Will sure  save a few from accidental csc crashes . Good job Dji. Apparently someone is listening (watching )

DJI-Ken Posted at 2016-3-15 10:49
The CSC procedure has changed for the Phantom 4, Phantom 3 remains the same.
To stop motors during f ...

VIVA !!!
So, there is an issue.
Maybe now DJI can help me replace my P3PWhat I love most is people here stating that DJI will never change CSC procedure.

iherzog97 Posted at 2016-3-15 08:58
VIVA !!!
So, there was an issue.
Maybe now DJI can help me replace my P3P

Ditto mines also ! Notice how to the  Top 10 video/thread is no longer stickied at the top ?

DJI-Dave Posted at 2016-3-9 17:49
The CSC is not going to change. Sorry.

Dave,

DJI changed the CSC procedure for P4.

What do you have to say about it now??

To all that enriched this discussion, thank you very much. Apparently DJI is listening its customers and is going to change the CSC procedure, at least for P4.

To those that presented theirselves as Gods of the Sky, be humbler. Your attitude don't help in a constructive way. And at the end, you were wrong. Ops...

DJI-Ken - you really acted very professionally through out this debate. Good job.

DJI-Ken Posted at 2016-3-15 21:49
The CSC procedure has changed for the Phantom 4, Phantom 3 remains the same.
To stop motors during f ...

Why this choice only for the Phantom 4?

Nicola90s Posted at 2016-3-15 11:40
Why this choice only for the Phantom 4?

Liability concerns, maybe.

DJI-Ken Posted at 2016-3-15 06:49
The CSC procedure has changed for the Phantom 4, Phantom 3 remains the same.
To stop motors during f ...

I am really happy with this solution. I can't see doing the new procedure by accident. We should be able to practice it safely while on the ground with the motors idling as well.

Reports is that it is implemented although not documented to work on phantom 3 professional firmware vs 1.7

iherzog97 Posted at 2016-3-15 07:28
Dave,

DJI changed the CSC procedure for P4.

I am just happy you are happy.


Dave

iherzog97 Posted at 2016-3-15 22:34
To all that enriched this discussion, thank you very much. Apparently DJI is listening its customers ...

All they're doing is listening to the loudest mouths, which are rarely, if ever, the actual majority. I'm still wondering what any of that has to do with being humble, or being wrong, especially since it's still the same for everything except the P4 (and everything else in the remote aircraft world which utilize CSCs, incluidng the current NAZA – if anything, it's these people who have suddenly decided they know what's the correct and better way).