4K video not smooth
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Floreto
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Mabou2 Posted at 2017-8-11 09:48
Hi Floreto,
Have you tried a different card?  I notice on Amazon that your card is now outdated and is being replaced by a new model.

Yes I use h.264 as well on all my video's, have you watched the uncompressed version yet?
2017-8-11
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Floreto
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Ted11 Posted at 2017-8-11 06:42
Are your video settings MP4 or MOV.   I use 4K  3840x2160 @ 60fps. when I used MP4 it was very juddery especially panning/ yawing

I've been using .MP4 in camera
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Kuya Kano Posted at 2017-8-11 09:24
I just shot a video at 4k using 60fps and it was smooth as butter.  Granted its doubling your space on the hard drive, but the people I shot the video was amazed by the quality.  I shot a separate video at 1080p at 30fps and the video was "o.k.", but the quality was nothing to get excited about since every new iPhone and smart device out there has 1080p video quality.

Were you using .mov?
2017-8-11
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JW5255
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Wondering if the issue may be related to the mechanical verses electronic shutter?  I have gone total electronic.
2017-8-11
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Mabou2 Posted at 2017-8-11 09:48
Hi Floreto,
Have you tried a different card?  I notice on Amazon that your card is now outdated and is being replaced by a new model.

The SD Card will not have any effect on the quality of the images. It is recording digital information, so it either records or not. If it is too slow, it will simply stop recroding.
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Ted11 Posted at 2017-8-11 06:42
Are your video settings MP4 or MOV.   I use 4K  3840x2160 @ 60fps. when I used MP4 it was very juddery especially panning/ yawing

It shouldn't make any difference - both .MOV and .MP4 are container formats.  Identical video (and audio) streams are contained within.
2017-8-11
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Landbo
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Floreto Posted at 2017-8-11 08:50
Here's a link to a small portion of the clip, it's pretty large about 1.3GB but it's an uncompressed section of the video.  Not sure what good this will be though because in this format it's probably not possible to play it back smoothly without compressing it.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/zii3opp61o9ybyc/Comp%201.7z?dl=0

After 3 hours of investigation, I have come to the conclusion that I can not help you when you do not want to play with open cards.

Finding that the matriale in the OpenDML format is not what it turns out to be.
The camera's frame rate is not 30 but closer to 27 ? Or 24 ?
The camera's settings are probably not as told!

That's why I do not see the virgin matriale from the camera but instead get severet "chewed food" and password on Vimo.

Sorry.   

Regards Leif.
2017-8-11
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Mabou2
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Geebax Posted at 2017-8-11 15:50
The SD Card will not have any effect on the quality of the images. It is recording digital information, so it either records or not. If it is too slow, it will simply stop recroding.

Sorry Geebax, I have to push back on your statement.  The SD card will ABSOLUTELY affect the recording.  I never said the card would affect the quality of the IMAGE, but it can absolutely affect the quality of the RECORDING.  I have seen it too many times from pro and consumer cameras alike.  The recording will stutter if the card isn't up to speed (or if there is a problem with the card).  Literally dropping frames.

In 4k, my p4 dropped frames like crazy AND I got pixillation when using the default card that came with the drone.  After getting a faster card, both problems went away.
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Mabou2 Posted at 2017-8-11 22:14
Sorry Geebax, I have to push back on your statement.  The SD card will ABSOLUTELY affect the recording.  I never said the card would affect the quality of the IMAGE, but it can absolutely affect the quality of the RECORDING.  I have seen it too many times from pro and consumer cameras alike.  The recording will stutter if the card isn't up to speed (or if there is a problem with the card).  Literally dropping frames.

In 4k, my p4 dropped frames like crazy AND I got pixillation when using the default card that came with the drone.  After getting a faster card, both problems went away.

Sorry, but the SD card cannot drop frames or cause pixelation. Any system that records MPEG encoded video cannot drop frames. If it cannot keep up with the speed of the write process in the aircraft, it will simply stop recording altogether. Within the MPEG stream, only I frames contain the full frame of information, intermediate frames only carry the difference information. A MPEG stream that does not contain the full amount of information would represent a corrupted file and would not play in any form.

Just because people say they have experienced dropped frames does not make it so, it is nothing more than an urban myth. A little research on the Internet will set you straight. Most times when people claim this, the playback system is the culprit.
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Yes, I am using .mov.  I do all my editing on a MacBook.
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Geebax Posted at 2017-8-11 22:47
Sorry, but the SD card cannot drop frames or cause pixelation. Any system that records MPEG encoded video cannot drop frames. If it cannot keep up with the speed of the write process in the aircraft, it will simply stop recording altogether. Within the MPEG stream, only I frames contain the full frame of information, intermediate frames only carry the difference information. A MPEG stream that does not contain the full amount of information would represent a corrupted file and would not play in any form.

Just because people say they have experienced dropped frames does not make it so, it is nothing more than an urban myth. A little research on the Internet will set you straight. Most times when people claim this, the playback system is the culprit.

Hiya Geebax....  Interesting conversation with you.  I'm open to learning at all times, so I'm not digging my heels in and did the research you suggested.

I can't speak for MPG because I usually shoot .mov.
The articles I found lean the direction of your comments, but also leave sufficient room for the card to be the culprit.  Even articles that strongly suggest that the card cannot cause dropouts, mention that if you have examined all other possibilities and still have dropouts, that you might just have a bad card.  

So although you have made me lean more your direction, I still have too many examples of cards being the problem, from my own experience.  

I have most definitely, absolutely had dropouts and rough playback that were recorded to a card and upon swapping to a faster card had the problem go away.  

This has happened to me over the years with SD cards, Compact Flash cards, and micro SD (including my own P4 when using the default card that shipped with the bird).  

The best example of this for me, (which was also something that I read in one of the tech websites when I was doing the research this morning) was this...   I was on a three day event shoot with a pro ENG Panasonic camera, I was doing a run and gun all day so I needed all of my cards... and one of the cards was slower.  On that card, I recorded about two hours of 1080P footage at high bandwidth.  When I got the card back to my edit station, the video and audio were way out of sync and the video basically played in fast motion.  In this case, the video was not only dropping frames, it was placing all of the frames it grabbed back to back, which meant that a 10 minute video clip played in about 3 minutes... but the audio took all 10 minutes to play (7 minutes of audio with black video).  Really freaked me out since I was on a paid gig and the card was in spec, just at the bottom of the spec sheet.

Anyway, so you have made me reconsider my stance to a degree, but I don't think it is locked that either of us is completely correct.  With all of the variables in the codec, the card, bandwidth, etc, there is always a possibility that the card itself can be the problem.

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Mabou2 Posted at 2017-8-12 06:36
Hiya Geebax....  Interesting conversation with you.  I'm open to learning at all times, so I'm not digging my heels in and did the research you suggested.

I can't speak for MPG because I usually shoot .mov.

I will explain a little more, at the risk of boring everyone. The DJI cameras record MPEG streams, either to the H.264 or H.265 standard. They then put those files in a 'container' to make handling them easier. The two main forms are MP4 or MOV. The containers are like having washing powder sold to you in a tin can or a cardboard box. The contents are the same, the MPEG stream, just the container that varies, and the container type is not important. Most of the world uses MP4, but Apple just had to have their own format, hence MOV. But the pictures in each are identical. I laugh when people say they found the video was better when they set up the camera to record MOV, because it is quite untrue.

There are various ways of recording the images from the camera, one method CinemaDNG, records RAW images with each frame occupying its own seperate file. In this method, if the camera cannot keep up with the recording process for some reason, it will drop frames. A good camera also lets you know if it has dropped frames. In other types of cameras, it is a single file, but the frames are organised in individual packets, and also can be dropped if necessary.

The MPEG stream was not designed to be used for recording images into memory in cameras, it was primarily designed as a transport medium, so it has no seperate packets of frames, because apart from the I frames that contain full information of a single frame, all the other frames are nothing more than information about what has changed between one frame and the next. But the high compression available with MPEG made it very attractive for camera manufacturers trying for high quality combined with small storage requirements. So now it has become more or less a standard. Personally, I would like to see a switch to CinemaDNG, as it is RAW video, but it requires a high performance card to record onto, and is at present out of the range of SD cards or vastly too expensive. Note that the Inspire 2 uses small SSDs instead of SD cards.

When the recording sub-system in the camera is recording individual frames, it can drop them, but with a continuous MPEG stream, there is no provision for doing so, therefore if the recording system finds that the card is not keeping up, it simply stops the recording process. This is why from time to time you will see a post here from someone saying their Phantom is only making short recordings and stops all the time. This indicates the SD card is borderline, and should be replaced.

One problem is when you have a card that is borderline on speed. Remember, there are write speeds, read speeds and continuous, or sustained, read and write speeds. Some cards can be barely OK on both, and when played back, the replay system cannot read the file fast enough, and will skip frames. It can do this because the original purpose of the MPEG format was to transport the information to the viewer, primarily over TV channels. If the transmission process loses some of the data, the reception system must be able to discard the frame and move on to the next.

So skipping frames can be the fault of the replay system. When replaying, it is important NOT to play back from the SD card, either the card, the adapter or the USB connection may be too slow. Instead, copy the file to a fast HDD, or preferably an SSD, then play it.

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Geebax Posted at 2017-8-12 14:20
I will explain a little more, at the risk of boring everyone. The DJI cameras record MPEG streams, either to the H.264 or H.265 standard. They then put those files in a 'container' to make handling them easier. The two main forms are MP4 or MOV. The containers are like having washing powder sold to you in a tin can or a cardboard box. The contents are the same, the MPEG stream, just the container that varies, and the container type is not important. Most of the world uses MP4, but Apple just had to have their own format, hence MOV. But the pictures in each are identical. I laugh when people say they found the video was better when they set up the camera to record MOV, because it is quite untrue.

There are various ways of recording the images from the camera, one method CinemaDNG, records RAW images with each frame occupying its own seperate file. In this method, if the camera cannot keep up with the recording process for some reason, it will drop frames. A good camera also lets you know if it has dropped frames. In other types of cameras, it is a single file, but the frames are organised in individual packets, and also can be dropped if necessary.

That was very interesting Geebax.  Thanks for taking the time to write all of that out.  
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Floreto
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Geebax Posted at 2017-8-12 14:20
I will explain a little more, at the risk of boring everyone. The DJI cameras record MPEG streams, either to the H.264 or H.265 standard. They then put those files in a 'container' to make handling them easier. The two main forms are MP4 or MOV. The containers are like having washing powder sold to you in a tin can or a cardboard box. The contents are the same, the MPEG stream, just the container that varies, and the container type is not important. Most of the world uses MP4, but Apple just had to have their own format, hence MOV. But the pictures in each are identical. I laugh when people say they found the video was better when they set up the camera to record MOV, because it is quite untrue.

There are various ways of recording the images from the camera, one method CinemaDNG, records RAW images with each frame occupying its own seperate file. In this method, if the camera cannot keep up with the recording process for some reason, it will drop frames. A good camera also lets you know if it has dropped frames. In other types of cameras, it is a single file, but the frames are organised in individual packets, and also can be dropped if necessary.

Very good explanation, it sounds like dropped frames is not the problem with this video then.  
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Mabou2 Posted at 2017-8-13 06:23
The was very interesting Geebax.  Thanks for taking the time to write all of that out.

Thank you, and also to Floreto.
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Floreto
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I know why the video plays back the way it does, the original footage was too long so I increased it's speed by about 20% in Premiere, once I reset the speed the video plays back as smooth as butter.   I totally forgot I did this, it's something I've been doing with footage for a long time and I've never experienced an effect like this before.  I still don't understand why the video is playing back in this way, does anyone have any ideas?  

I want to apologize to DJI for blaming this on the hardware, this is most definitely a user error.  
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Floreto
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FYI when adjusting the speed of your clips in Premiere of footage like this don't use Frame Sampling use Frame Blending, that is why I was having this problem.  Thanks to everyone who tried to help, I feel much better about 4K video now.
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Punchbuggy Posted at 2017-8-11 21:55
It shouldn't make any difference - both .MOV and .MP4 are container formats.  Identical video (and audio) streams are contained within.

After this discussion I did some mov recordings.
I was wondering if that makes any difference with the stuttering I have on my iPad Mini 4 since the last Go update. Of course it didn't but I found out something else:
I can play 4K/60fps movs flawlessly with my favorite player on my lightweight notebook I use when I'm travelling.
https://mpc-hc.org

For MP4 none of the usual players works on my notebook.

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Eric13 Posted at 2017-8-13 20:01
After this discussion I did some mov recordings.
I was wondering if that makes any difference with the stuttering I have on my iPad Mini 4 since the last Go update. Of course it didn't but I found out something else:
I can play 4K/60fps movs flawlessly with my favorite player on my lightweight notebook I use when I'm travelling.

Hi. If you have a Windows 10 laptop, have you tried playing .MP4 videos with the built-in Film&TV player? That's the only one which works for me. Even VLC has problems with playback, although others report success
I'll have to check out MPC. Thanks.
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Punchbuggy Posted at 2017-8-13 20:06
Hi. If you have a Windows 10 laptop, have you tried playing .MP4 videos with the built-in Film&TV player? That's the only one which works for me. Even VLC has problems with playback, although others report success
I'll have to check out MPC. Thanks.

The built-in player plays MP4 perfect! Did never bother to check this one out.
Thanks!
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Floreto Posted at 2017-8-13 16:36
FYI when adjusting the speed of your clips in Premiere of footage like this don't use Frame Sampling use Frame Blending, that is why I was having this problem.  Thanks to everyone who tried to help, I feel much better about 4K video now.

If you want to speed up or slow down video footage, and you are prepared to pay for it, Twixtor is the preferred tool.
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A tutorial shares a solution with you: compress DJI Phantom 4K to 1080p
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