Greetings again, I am the one that had the Phantom flip over and fly inverted into the ground.  Well today, DJI's service evaluated the damage and emailed me a detailed list of the parts and labor needed to repair the drone.  I immediately paid it via Pay Pal and the drone is set next for repairs and return to me.  I did call support and was told that the repair technicians always reviewed the flight data logs to determine what caused the crash  and that he (Rio) would see that it was done and that they emailed me within 48 hours with the results.  However, the price list of repairs simply stated that the drone had crashed and was not fault of DJI.  I am curious if the promised review of the onboard flight data logs will show just why the drone became inverted!!!  I had made previous requests that this be done and I even included in the box with the drone, a detailed letter of what happened and asked that the logs be reviewed as I am hestitant to fly it again until the actual cause can be determined.  I will post an update when DJI advises me of this.  Thanks,
Jim
WA5TEF

Sorry to read about the flip over, again.  That must have been very frustrating for you.

If the LOG was analyzed and they are charging you for the repair, they must have thought it was due to pilot error?


RedHotPoker

RedHotPoker Posted at 2017-1-31 21:52
Sorry to read about the flip over, again.  That must have been very frustrating for you.

If the LOG was analyzed and they are charging you for the repair, they must have thought it was due to pilot error?

Yeah, that's what I thought but there was no pilot error, nothing near the drone, and no control movement, or combination of control movement that I know of, or anyone on this forum has been able to duplicate, has resulted in a drone suddenly flipping over and flying into the ground.  I'm sure you know that you cannot manually make the drone do a flip, or fly inverted under any circumstances.  So, all you drone jockies out there, please help me and tell me how "pilot error" can cause a Phantom 4 to become inverted!  I have been posting on this forum for several days now and nobody has come up with a reason.
Thanks,
Jim
WA5TEF

Well, honestly, doing a CSC while sitting on the ground, has flipped a number of Phantoms... So Definately possible, and all though not common, has been the culprit for several inadvertant flips.


Did you check the flight LOG at http://www.healthydrones.com and http://www.phantomhelp.com/LogViewer/Upload/ site?


That's a good place to be assured... If not done already.


RedHotPoker

The only other thing that causes a Phantom to Flip in mid air is losing a propeller.
It would be nice if the DJI tech involved included a detailed report from the flight log explaining what they think happened rather than just saying pilot error. Otherwise as you say how can you be sure it won't happen again.

Put your phone/tablet log up on  http://www.phantomhelp.com/LogViewer/Upload/ and give us a link, presumably the whole flip and decent is recorded, we should be able to see it turn upside down and we can compare it with your control inputs etc.  As you say it shouldn't happen unless it hits something, even loosing a prop doesn't normally flip it upside down.  It will at least be interesting to see and could be useful to know it can happen for future incidents.

RedHotPoker Posted at 2017-2-1 00:07
Well, honestly, doing a CSC while sitting on the ground, has flipped a number of Phantoms... So Definately possible, and all though not common, has been the culprit for several inadvertant flips.

Well, one thing I am not is a computer guru.  I have tried to locate those files on my iPad but they stop showing on 11/27/16 and start up again on 1/22/17 and the crash happened at 1624 hours on 1/21/17.  Therefore the crash was not recorded.  I did have a previous encounter into a tree on 11/26/16 where I lost all 4 props but no other damage and it was recorded fine.  That is why I was hoping DJI could access the files on the drone and report to me.  I would love to hear any further ideas on how I could recover this file.  Thanks
Jim
WA5TEF

Phantom-Paul 7 Posted at 2017-2-1 00:20
The only other thing that causes a Phantom to Flip in mid air is losing a propeller.
It would be nice if the DJI tech involved included a detailed report from the flight log explaining what they think happened rather than just saying pilot error. Otherwise as you say how can you be sure it won't happen again.

Yeah, all propellers were still attached.  I did immediately make a photo and video of the crashed drone, laying upside down and clearly showing all four props with the hubs embedded in the soil.  In fact one propeller was difficult to remove because of the dirt that had been stuck onto the hub.  I did make a video of removing this hub but I do have photo evidence that all four props were still on the drone.  And, had it lost one prop, the decent would have been circular or some other way erratic and this one was straight down all the way that I observed it.  
Thanks,
Jim
WA5TEF  

WA5TEF Posted at 2017-2-1 06:10
Well, one thing I am not is a computer guru.  I have tried to locate those files on my iPad but they stop showing on 11/27/16 and start up again on 1/22/17 and the crash happened at 1624 hours on 1/21/17.  Therefore the crash was not recorded.  I did have a previous encounter into a tree on 11/26/16 where I lost all 4 props but no other damage and it was recorded fine.  That is why I was hoping DJI could access the files on the drone and report to me.  I would love to hear any further ideas on how I could recover this file.  Thanks
Jim
WA5TEF

I don't have an Apple product so can't help other than to point out that there are instructions at the bottom of the upload page at phantomhelp...

You may have to sync the flights?  Or maybe you used a different device for those flights?

WA5TEF Posted at 2017-2-1 06:10
Well, one thing I am not is a computer guru.  I have tried to locate those files on my iPad but they stop showing on 11/27/16 and start up again on 1/22/17 and the crash happened at 1624 hours on 1/21/17.  Therefore the crash was not recorded.  I did have a previous encounter into a tree on 11/26/16 where I lost all 4 props but no other damage and it was recorded fine.  That is why I was hoping DJI could access the files on the drone and report to me.  I would love to hear any further ideas on how I could recover this file.  Thanks
Jim
WA5TEF

"start up again on 1/22/17 and the crash happened at 1624 hours on 1/21/17. "




So you flew the day after the crash?

I'm sorry about your luck! Just posting to follow, I'm curious of the turn out. Also, I'd like to see the flight logs as well.

I've responded to your other threads and messages, but what is the case# again and I will see if I can get a reason for the crash.

WA5TEF Posted at 2017-2-1 06:10
Well, one thing I am not is a computer guru.  I have tried to locate those files on my iPad but they stop showing on 11/27/16 and start up again on 1/22/17 and the crash happened at 1624 hours on 1/21/17.  Therefore the crash was not recorded.  I did have a previous encounter into a tree on 11/26/16 where I lost all 4 props but no other damage and it was recorded fine.  That is why I was hoping DJI could access the files on the drone and report to me.  I would love to hear any further ideas on how I could recover this file.  Thanks
Jim
WA5TEF

So, DJI have their version of what happened, and their decision is final.

Without you sharing the flight LOG files, we are stumped and without any advice or suggestions.

I can only suggest, you fly low and close to the ground a few times, to see if you note any irregularities, or unusual flight characteristics.
All though, after having if repaired, we may never know what happened...

RedHotPoker

KM5RG-Robert Posted at 2017-2-1 06:54
"start up again on 1/22/17 and the crash happened at 1624 hours on 1/21/17. "

Yes, in fact I flew about thirty minutes after the crash.  All I did to the Phantom was install another battery to be sure it had failsafe power, changed out the four props and it flew perfectly.  The gimbal mount was messed up but the camera worked fine and every function I tried on the drone worked.  I am still amazed at the quality of the aircraft.  I have already gotten the estimate to repair and it came to about $239 which I paid already.  I am still waiting on an analysis of the flight data logs on the drone.  I'll post the results when I get them and hopefully in the meantime I can locate the files here.  Strange---I just checked the logs on my iPhone 7s which I use sometimes and the logs are slightly different but they to do not record the days missed on the iPad.  It is almost like the data stream that reports this was shut down.  Maybe I'll have some answers soon but I feel it is DJI's problem and certainly not a pilot error.  The drone is insured so it is no financial difference to me but I do need to know how and why it became inverted so I can take steps to prevent it from doing so again.  
Thanks,
Jim
WA5TEF

DJI-Ken Posted at 2017-2-1 08:01
I've responded to your other threads and messages, but what is the case# again and I will see if I can get a reason for the crash.

Kin, thanks a bunch.  The case number is CAS-422099-T6G3T8.  Like I recently posted, the drone is insured but I need to know what the cause to invert so I can maybe prevent it from happening again.  Thanks a bunch Ken, I'll be watching for your update.
Thanks,
Jim
WA5TEF

AlecW Posted at 2017-2-1 08:34
Your threads are so spread out it's hard to follow this.  

From what I can see.  

Yeah, I have thest posts on several different places and it is difficult for me to recall where all I posted.  Here is the summary again, I  flew into a tree on 11/24 and it chopped its way down through the tree at idle power.  I lost three props I think, and some scratches but no other damage.  Then, I flew it many times with DJI GO and Litchi with no problems.  On January 21, I flew it to 417 feet, took a still shot ()I had to turn off the video recorder to do this but failed to turn it back on since I was only making this one photo) and then started a descent.  In fact it crashed in almost the same spot it took off from.  And no I did not lose a prop since all four were still attached and I have photo evidence of this since I video'ed the site plus made still shots of it.  Had I lost a prop, the craft would have turned probably in a spiral instead of a perfect flip.  It was horizontal and stable while falling and I did not realize it was inverted so I applied full throttle to stop the fall.  But, since it was upside down, it increased the fall and hit the ground hard and bounced.  When I got to it, the lights were still on, the battery was on with three green LED's lit and the fourth one blinking.  As I have said, it took quite am impact and survived.  DJI should be proud of their construction!
Thanks for following.  I'll post the results of the flight data logs when I get them.
Thanks,
Jim
WA5TEF

WA5TEF Posted at 2017-2-1 11:52
Kin, thanks a bunch.  The case number is CAS-422099-T6G3T8.  Like I recently posted, the drone is insured but I need to know what the cause to invert so I can maybe prevent it from happening again.  Thanks a bunch Ken, I'll be watching for your update.
Thanks,
Jim

no problem, I'll let you know.
Also, in the future please only post your issue in one place, It's difficult to keep track of all the posts.
If you want, you can go into your Personal Homepage by clicking your avatar in the upper right and it will show all your threads and posts. Then you can go to each duplicate one and delete them all but one.

DJI-Ken Posted at 2017-2-1 12:10
no problem, I'll let you know.
Also, in the future please only post your issue in one place, It's difficult to keep track of all the posts.
If you want, you can go into your Personal Homepage by clicking your avatar in the upper right and delete the other threads.

DJI- Ken,
Howdy do, How are you??

The only way I have so far discovered how to delete multiple or unwanted posts.

Click Edit, then lower left corner, tap Aditional options, then DEL this post. & tap Yes.

How do you perform it from the forum homepage? Thanks


RedHotPoker

RedHotPoker Posted at 2017-2-1 12:17
DJI- Ken,
Howdy do, How are you??

Hey stranger.
I just meant that they can use the home page to find all their threads or posts. You still have to go to each one to delete it.I edited it  as I probably didn't explain too well.

DJI-Ken Posted at 2017-2-1 12:41
Hey stranger.
I just meant that they can use the home page to find all their threads or posts. You still have to go to each one to delete it.

Hey DJI- Ken, thanks for the quick response.

Ah yes, just as I figured. ;-)

Either way, there are numerous double posts, that I wish you folks would delete. Haha
Seems like the authors, are reluctant to remove their inadvertent dual posts.

Have you been able to fly much lately? Hope so. . . Looking forward to seeing more of your awesome footage and pics.

RedHotPoker

AlecW Posted at 2017-2-1 12:52
Sorry about that.  It sounded like the free fall was the day after the tree issue.

Still sounds a lot like a prop issue though, there's really not much else it can be since you had power.

Yeah, DJI-Ken is checking on the flight data logs so maybe he can tell me what happened.  No, all props were still attached to the Phantom.  Nothing was in the way of its descent and it crashed very near where it took off.  Had a prop been damaged or missing, it would not have landed flat on its top since it still had power and probably full power since I was trying to stop its fall.  So, let's wait on Ken and see what he has to tell.  Thanks,
Jim
WA5TEF

WA5TEF Posted at 2017-2-1 13:35
Yeah, DJI-Ken is checking on the flight data logs so maybe he can tell me what happened.  No, all props were still attached to the Phantom.  Nothing was in the way of its descent and it crashed very near where it took off.  Had a prop been damaged or missing, it would not have landed flat on its top since it still had power and probably full power since I was trying to stop its fall.  So, let's wait on Ken and see what he has to tell.  Thanks,
Jim
WA5TEF

Full power into the ground?! Must have that soft fluffy ground. haha
Did you see it was inverted before it hit the ground? (As you stated you did not know it was inverted when it was in the air still). Or did you find it inverted and assume it hit that way? Just trying to be clear.
As far as your logs go, be sure and upload your logs (sync with DJI) on each device you use, they should all show the same logs after that. Strange that there would be no logs for that specific flight though....

Lucky it did not hit you since it was so close to your launch spot (and presumably near your control spot).  May have to think about hard hats. Ha

KM5RG-Robert Posted at 2017-2-1 16:24
Lucky it did not hit you since it was so close to your launch spot (and presumably near your control spot).  May have to think about hard hats. Ha

Yeah Robert.  I luckily had walked a little ways away from the launch site and got to see it falling at an angle.  It would certainly have done some damage had it hit me!  Looks like you have some bird problems with all those on your antennas!  Do you ever use your drone to string up a wire antenna?  
73
Jim
WA5TEF

WA5TEF Posted at 2017-2-1 17:49
Yeah Robert.  I luckily had walked a little ways away from the launch site and got to see it falling at an angle.  It would certainly have done some damage had it hit me!  Looks like you have some bird problems with all those on your antennas!  Do you ever use your drone to string up a wire antenna?  
73
Jim

That pic is one house ago.
No never tied one on with the drone. Thought about it years ago using a balloon though.

KM5RG-Robert Posted at 2017-2-1 20:16
That pic is one house ago.
No never tied one on with the drone. Thought about it years ago using a balloon though.

A friend, N5YTG uses his drone to inspect his many commercial towers.  He even flies it right up to the antennas in all that RF with no problems.  By using the drone he can get a video record of the tower inspection.  He also has taped a piece of stiff wire to one of the landing struts on his P4P and attaches a fishing line to it, flies it up over a large tree just over the trunk area and rotates the drone 180 degrees so the line falls off and with an attached lead weight has a string over the tree top to pull up wire antenna support line and thus the antenna.  Pretty neat!
73
Jim
WA5TEF

OK, I have been waiting all day for DJI to get back to me about the flight data logs.  I have talked on the phone to Rio, by private message to Ken and I also included a detailed written request in the box that I shipped the Pahtom 4 to DJI and still no reply  to my request.  I am rapidly beginning to think that the analysis of the flight data logs as to why a drone built by DJI would suddenly flip over and fly inverted into the ground????????????  So, I guess I will have to get someone on the forum to help me try to restore the data logs on my iPad and/or my iPhone to see what happened.  And yes, I am becoming dissatisfied with DJI's team that none of them have replied.  The repair service shows that the drone is in its final analysis for quality control.  I hope they are more dedicated!

A bit of patience.

Working in a service centre I know that everyone thinks that their particular item is the most important one. Sometimes these things are not as easy to organise. If I had not heard back in a week I would  start to make a noise.

I keep hearing how unhappy everyone is with DJI. These dudes are freeking busy.I don't think their growth in factory space has kept up with sales.
They have been on holiday over in China.   We all slack during our holidays don't we..  
So what if DJI has a slight lag in synchronizing every part of their operations.  Their doing better then I could do.
There are way more happy owners of DJI products then there are angry owners here at the blog. And I'm one of the happy ones, knock on wood.
Getting all blast on them and  bugging the mods Isn't going to light a fire under anyone's ass.
It seems to me you have been having a lot of contact with folks at DJI.
Remember. costumers with troubles are a minority.  I have this much trouble getting a computer worked on.....and I spend a lot more on my computer
then I did for my drone. and need it even more.
Be calm and give them a chance.  

Cabansail Posted at 2017-2-2 16:13
A bit of patience.

Working in a service centre I know that everyone thinks that their particular item is the most important one. Sometimes these things are not as easy to organise. If I had not heard back in a week I would  start to make a noise.

Yeah, I started making this request almost two weeks ago though!  It would not hurt anyone to go to a keyboard and send me an email, of which I have dropped my address, and just let me know what is going on!  I just received an email from the repair folks that my Phantom is ready but even then, they failed to comment on the flight logs.  They had to read the letter I sent before they could get to the Phantom so I feel reasonably sure that they knew I wanted to find out why the drone flipped over.  Oh well, back to waiting.

WA5TEF Posted at 2017-2-2 17:51
Yeah, I started making this request almost two weeks ago though!  It would not hurt anyone to go to a keyboard and send me an email, of which I have dropped my address, and just let me know what is going on!  I just received an email from the repair folks that my Phantom is ready but even then, they failed to comment on the flight logs.  They had to read the letter I sent before they could get to the Phantom so I feel reasonably sure that they knew I wanted to find out why the drone flipped over.  Oh well, back to waiting.

Historically, DJI have never (to my knowledge) ever come back to anyone giving an analysis of what happened according to the logs. It would appear that the logs are primarily there so DJI can work out if what happened was caused by a fault in the aircraft or the pilot, thats all.

DJI-Ken Posted at 2017-2-1 08:01
I've responded to your other threads and messages, but what is the case# again and I will see if I can get a reason for the crash.

Case number is CAS-422099-T6G3T8
Thanks,
Jim
WA5TEF

DJI-Ken Posted at 2017-2-1 12:10
no problem, I'll let you know.
Also, in the future please only post your issue in one place, It's difficult to keep track of all the posts.
If you want, you can go into your Personal Homepage by clicking your avatar in the upper right and it will show all your threads and posts. Then you can go to each duplicate one and delete them all but one.

Ken, I went into the site several times but have not been able to find a way to delete a threat.  Can you advise?
Thanks,
Jim
WA5TEF

Geebax Posted at 2017-2-2 17:57
Historically, DJI have never (to my knowledge) ever come back to anyone giving an analysis of what happened according to the logs. It would appear that the logs are primarily there so DJI can work out if what happened was caused by a fault in the aircraft or the pilot, thats all.

Yeah, I figured so.  I doubt if they would find themselves at fault especially since the repairs have already been paid for and the drone ready to ship back.  I just hope it does not happen again.  I hope anyone who reads this will let me know if a flip over happens to them, even though it may right itself automatically and land safely.  If it is a DJI flaw, it will happen again and to someone else.  If it was a pilot error, I apologize but it could not have been in any way I have looked at it.  Here I go again, rambling about the inverted crash!  Thanks for reading it all again.  I'll post what I find out if I get a report.
Thanks,
Jim
WA5TEF

WA5TEF Posted at 2017-2-2 18:12
Yeah, I figured so.  I doubt if they would find themselves at fault especially since the repairs have already been paid for and the drone ready to ship back.  I just hope it does not happen again.  I hope anyone who reads this will let me know if a flip over happens to them, even though it may right itself automatically and land safely.  If it is a DJI flaw, it will happen again and to someone else.  If it was a pilot error, I apologize but it could not have been in any way I have looked at it.  Here I go again, rambling about the inverted crash!  Thanks for reading it all again.  I'll post what I find out if I get a report.
Thanks,
Jim

At least I can't say enough good about the service department!  They got my Phantom in, Monday, analyzed and repaired and ready for shipment back by Thursday of the same week!  However, I wish they had responded to my request for the cause of the crash.  Great work though, service department!!!
Jim
WA5TEF

WA5TEF Posted at 2017-2-2 18:08
Ken, I went into the site several times but have not been able to find a way to delete a threat.  Can you advise?
Thanks,
Jim

To delete a "thread": Tap Edit, then tap Advanced on the right.
Then Lower Left corner, tap Additional options.
In the pop up window tap Del this post, then tap Yes.


RedHotPoker

RedHotPoker Posted at 2017-2-2 18:55
To delete a "thread": Tap Edit, then tap Advanced on the right.
Then Lower Left corner, tap Additional options.
In the pop up window tap Del this post, then tap Yes.

so where is "edit".  I must be on the wrong page or wrong forum!  
Thanks for the reply
Jim
WA5TEF

My son is an engineer and flies a Mavic.  He suggested that when a drone descends, it starts to become unstable somewhat riding on the cushion of air and the drone automatically increases power to one or more of the propellers to stabilize it.  Has anyone heard of this?  Could a faulty sensor that reads this condition cause the flip over?  Just a hunch.
Thanks,
Jim
WA5TEF

WA5TEF Posted at 2017-2-2 19:27
so where is "edit".  I must be on the wrong page or wrong forum!  
Thanks for the reply
Jim

Edit, is found at the Bottom of your posts, just to the right of Reply, see the pencil?

Do you notice it there?

RedHotPoker

RedHotPoker Posted at 2017-2-2 20:12
Edit, is found at the Bottom of your posts, just to the right of Reply, see the pencil?

Do you notice it there?

Thanks for jumping in.