Hilarious - I just had someone on one of my YT videos about losing GPS and going into ATTI mode (and I paraphrase) 'that's the trouble with all the new drone folk moaning all the time about losing GPS, if you cannot fly the thing without GPS you don't deserve to be flying'?!

I deleted his comment because I was annoyed when I first read it as it was trolling, but later thought I would have responded with:

1 As I primarily use the drone for filming & stills I actually like the fact it doesn't drift sideways and up and down in the wind...
2 Something costing $2k + AUD, I would like it to behave as advertised and become a reliable and useful tool
3 Also it is nice for it to not lose position and rather than fly away or land in the middle of nowhere, it is good when it decides to fly home
4 Sure I can fly it manually and race with it across mountains, forests and skateboard parks but given the likelihood of crashing it, I would rather have bought some much cheaper and expendable!
I also hear this a lot from old school droners who see these new fangled GPS locked things as 'they fly themselves' moaning!

What other reasons we like GPS lock?

Or you could respond and say you can't get any practice with ATTI mode on the Mavic because, despite many calls from the community, theres no facility for switching on such a mode in that drone.

Ex Machina Posted at 2017-6-17 18:42
Or you could respond and say you can't get any practice with ATTI mode on the Mavic because, despite many calls from the community, theres no facility for switching on such a mode in that drone.

There is some irony in that!

I love it when people go out of their way to tell you that, the way they play with their toy is better, more righteous, etc. than the way you play with your toy. And, you should obviously be doing what they do as well.

I would tend to agree that if you are going to put a aircraft in the air it is best to know how to fly it when and if the automation fails .  There is certainly nothing wrong with using the GPS mode or any other automated mode but in the end tech does fail and you need to know how to control it to keep from losing it , falling on someone etc .

I requested to Dji within the 1st week of getting the Mavic in January that it needed a selection to keep it in Atti mode simply because I hate fighting the GPS hold in some situations but I think they are afraid there will be far too many people trying to learn and crash . More so than the limited instances where it loses GPS signal .  It is best to learn Atti mode on something far cheaper IMO .

I think it's fair to say there will be times when you loose gps, these aircraft are not fool proof, you have option of trying to get insurance, ok care refresh but it has its limits and even dji won't insure you for loosing your drone because of lost gps.

And while I'm sure your aware if you decide to fly out of VLOS then you should have a plan if something like lost gps happens, believe me there are many who fly out of VLOS if they loose gps then the best the can offer is scratching there head. People who fly these drones should try to learn as much as possible about these aircraft and how to fly them safe.

I know you say all you want to do is fly for photography use and that's fine, but just like a car you only need to get you to work, you still have to learn how to operate it, and drive within the rules of the road.

hallmark007 Posted at 2017-6-18 14:57
I think it's fair to say there will be times when you loose gps, these aircraft are not fool proof, you have option of trying to get insurance, ok care refresh but it has its limits and even dji won't insure you for loosing your drone because of lost gps.

And while I'm sure your aware if you decide to fly out of VLOS then you should have a plan if something like lost gps happens, believe me there are many who fly out of VLOS if they loose gps then the best the can offer is scratching there head. People who fly these drones should try to learn as much as possible about these aircraft and how to fly them safe.

Definitely agree with this comment.

I see it both ways, I have hundreds of hours on a 450 quad from Hobby King that I fly every day, and a  thousand + hours on 7 others combined and it definitely helps. I would recommend everyone go buy a $100 quad from amazon or wally and get really good at flying it in every mode including sport. Its fun and will sharpen your skills

Perhaps you should have asked him how many gyros his quad has. I am not sure what the definition of ATTI is but there are varying degrees depending on the gyros used. I don't think there would be many flying a drone without a gyro of some sort.
The problem we have with those people asking for ATTI mode is we don't exactly know what that would mean with the Mavic. Is there still some sort of stabilisation or is there none. As much as I have read, those users who have encountered ATTI mode have crashed. Perhaps the Mavic is very unstable in ATTI mode such that it is very difficult to fly.
Give me all the bells and whistles that the Mavic has and I am happy as that is what I paid for. I learnt on a relatively unstable drone although it still had some gyros but I am sure that if ever my Mavic drops into ATTI mode then I will be caught out.

What does "ATTI" stand for, anyway?

The Mavic is pretty stable even in Atti mode, but the latest firmware doesn't allow it to go that far without GPS lock (probably in response to people who needs the GPS to fly).
All aircraft, no matter how expensive, will at some stage likely lose GPS lock and/or other flying aids, so it is contingent on us to learn to fly without those aids. They should be the nice to have, rather than must have. That's why pilots still go through simulators for various system failures; if you follow the same line of thinking of expecting something costing $2k to be utterly reliable, then I expect something costing a few hundred million $ to be perfect, but they are not.
I suppose part of the fault is marketing; it's suppose to not require thinking to fly a drone, which, obviously, is not the case.

Ray_Dunakin Posted at 2017-6-18 21:15
What does "ATTI" stand for, anyway?

Attitude...

Problem is that people are using GPS lock not as an additional safety net but as a reason to behave irresponsible (e.g. fly for miles beyond line of sight, over water, etc.).
I bet no hobbyist would fly his 5-inch acro race drone close to the ocean surface but on a drone with GPS-lock they do.

GPS makes droning far less complicated but fact is, drones do fail.

PHL Posted at 2017-6-18 21:22
The Mavic is pretty stable even in Atti mode, but the latest firmware doesn't allow it to go that far without GPS lock (probably in response to people who needs the GPS to fly).
All aircraft, no matter how expensive, will at some stage likely lose GPS lock and/or other flying aids, so it is contingent on us to learn to fly without those aids. They should be the nice to have, rather than must have. That's why pilots still go through simulators for various system failures; if you follow the same line of thinking of expecting something costing $2k to be utterly reliable, then I expect something costing a few hundred million $ to be perfect, but they are not.
I suppose part of the fault is marketing; it's suppose to not require thinking to fly a drone, which, obviously, is not the case.

Thanks PHL - yes I have no issues about flying in ATTI if required - I was flying RC planes 30 years ago and even my Parrot drones circa 2010 were non GPS. This is more about intermittent loss I suppose, especially if filming long sequences or in tight corners, just being taken out of a shot or dropped into flying with little room for error with no apparent reason is the key issue.

Glenn Goodlett Posted at 2017-6-18 06:47
I love it when people go out of their way to tell you that, the way they play with their toy is better, more righteous, etc. than the way you play with your toy. And, you should obviously be doing what they do as well.

Yes definitely some of that going on...with the old flyers especially

rydfree41 Posted at 2017-6-18 12:00
I would tend to agree that if you are going to put a aircraft in the air it is best to know how to fly it when and if the automation fails .  There is certainly nothing wrong with using the GPS mode or any other automated mode but in the end tech does fail and you need to know how to control it to keep from losing it , falling on someone etc .

I requested to Dji within the 1st week of getting the Mavic in January that it needed a selection to keep it in Atti mode simply because I hate fighting the GPS hold in some situations but I think they are afraid there will be far too many people trying to learn and crash . More so than the limited instances where it loses GPS signal .  It is best to learn Atti mode on something far cheaper IMO .

Perhaps after 100 hours of GPS mode it will open up and allow ATTI to be selected? Although how to know who the pilot is! Iris detection?

hallmark007 Posted at 2017-6-18 14:57
I think it's fair to say there will be times when you loose gps, these aircraft are not fool proof, you have option of trying to get insurance, ok care refresh but it has its limits and even dji won't insure you for loosing your drone because of lost gps.

And while I'm sure your aware if you decide to fly out of VLOS then you should have a plan if something like lost gps happens, believe me there are many who fly out of VLOS if they loose gps then the best the can offer is scratching there head. People who fly these drones should try to learn as much as possible about these aircraft and how to fly them safe.

So if your drone loses GPS because of a faulty compass, manufacturing fault (as the data is showing with mine) and it flys away, crashes or doesn't return home, then it is the pilots fault? Interesting.

Panaceabeachbum Posted at 2017-6-18 16:27
I see it both ways, I have hundreds of hours on a 450 quad from Hobby King that I fly every day, and a  thousand + hours on 7 others combined and it definitely helps. I would recommend everyone go buy a $100 quad from amazon or wally and get really good at flying it in every mode including sport. Its fun and will sharpen your skills

Yeah that was the attitude, excuse the pun - you buy a drone that guarantees GPS lock, RTH, stable flight for filming BUT we recommend you go and buy a cheap drone and learn how to fly first, a few 100 hours and then we will let you buy the advertised luxury model Imagine this with an automatic car... sorry you cannot buy the slik auto car with vehicle assist, power steering and gps unit, because you have to get a manual truck first and drive it over rough 4WD tracks ... oh yeah...

Jenee 2 Posted at 2017-6-18 21:08
Perhaps you should have asked him how many gyros his quad has. I am not sure what the definition of ATTI is but there are varying degrees depending on the gyros used. I don't think there would be many flying a drone without a gyro of some sort.
The problem we have with those people asking for ATTI mode is we don't exactly know what that would mean with the Mavic. Is there still some sort of stabilisation or is there none. As much as I have read, those users who have encountered ATTI mode have crashed. Perhaps the Mavic is very unstable in ATTI mode such that it is very difficult to fly.
Give me all the bells and whistles that the Mavic has and I am happy as that is what I paid for. I learnt on a relatively unstable drone although it still had some gyros but I am sure that if ever my Mavic drops into ATTI mode then I will be caught out.

Agree - it is not really about being skilled in being able to fly in ATTI (which given a big enough area with LOS I am happy to do) this is about something advertised and bought as a stable unit that suddenly decides for no reason to not be!

PHL Posted at 2017-6-18 21:22
The Mavic is pretty stable even in Atti mode, but the latest firmware doesn't allow it to go that far without GPS lock (probably in response to people who needs the GPS to fly).
All aircraft, no matter how expensive, will at some stage likely lose GPS lock and/or other flying aids, so it is contingent on us to learn to fly without those aids. They should be the nice to have, rather than must have. That's why pilots still go through simulators for various system failures; if you follow the same line of thinking of expecting something costing $2k to be utterly reliable, then I expect something costing a few hundred million $ to be perfect, but they are not.
I suppose part of the fault is marketing; it's suppose to not require thinking to fly a drone, which, obviously, is not the case.

Thankfully those several $mill jets and commercial airliners are not crashing as much as the $2k prosumer drones!

sundance87 Posted at 2017-6-19 02:21
Problem is that people are using GPS lock not as an additional safety net but as a reason to behave irresponsible (e.g. fly for miles beyond line of sight, over water, etc.).
I bet no hobbyist would fly his 5-inch acro race drone close to the ocean surface but on a drone with GPS-lock they do.

True re: the crazies. But I use the GPS for simple things, like a drone that doesn't fly away, one that is stable for videography and one that can occasionally perform waypoint modes - y'know the stuff they advertise them as doing...

garyphayes Posted at 2017-6-19 02:29
So if your drone loses GPS because of a faulty compass, manufacturing fault (as the data is showing with mine) and it flys away, crashes or doesn't return home, then it is the pilots fault? Interesting.

Faulty compass is not the only way you can loose gps, and I never alluded to that, if your compass is faulty that's a different matter.
However if you calibrate your compass wrongly that's a whole different issue. Dji do not guarantee gps how could they, if you bought a $10,000 drone you cannot be guaranteed gps and also magnetic interference to compass cannot also not be eliminated , drones are what they are we all know the necessity to set them up properly fly them properly, and just like your car if you don't drive it properly service it properly and take care of it properly you end up with a banger.

hallmark007 Posted at 2017-6-19 02:48
Faulty compass is not the only way you can loose gps, and I never alluded to that, if your compass is faulty that's a different matter.
However if you calibrate your compass wrongly that's a whole different issue. Dji do not guarantee gps how could they, if you bought a $10,000 drone you cannot be guaranteed gps and also magnetic interference to compass cannot also not be eliminated , drones are what they are we all know the necessity to set them up properly fly them properly, and just like your car if you don't drive it properly service it properly and take care of it properly you end up with a banger.

I am talking about setting up your drone carefully and professionally every flight and because of a fault with the drone it loses GPS. Not sure your point really, apart from the obvious, treat it bad and it will bite you back?

garyphayes Posted at 2017-6-19 03:26
I am talking about setting up your drone carefully and professionally every flight and because of a fault with the drone it loses GPS. Not sure your point really, apart from the obvious, treat it bad and it will bite you back?

I am not saying you did anything wrong. My point is simply this if you expect these aircraft to guarantee 100% gps 100% percent of the time, then that just isn't going to happen, you seem to be of the opinion that these craft should not fail in anyway, truth is if they fail because of malfunction dji will take care of it, if they fail because of pilot error then that's down to the pilot, if they fail because you flew in an unsuitable environment or couldn't control your craft because you flew out of VLOS that's pilot error.

garyphayes Posted at 2017-6-19 02:24
Thanks PHL - yes I have no issues about flying in ATTI if required - I was flying RC planes 30 years ago and even my Parrot drones circa 2010 were non GPS. This is more about intermittent loss I suppose, especially if filming long sequences or in tight corners, just being taken out of a shot or dropped into flying with little room for error with no apparent reason is the key issue.

Those RCs were a totally different kettle of fish; occasionally someone else will be on your signal, and your plane just goes off into the horizon.
Also those were very strictly line of sight, whereas the Mavic goes a lot further.

Dear Pilots,

I will give my humble opinion: I do believe you achieve master attitude when you do practice.
And in all hobbies, we will listen and read the hardcore users saying what is right and what is wrong.
But excellence comes with practice.
A beginner has no less importance than a veteran.
And a beginner flight, with technical control, is no less challenging than a ATTI flight for an experience pilot.
Thanks.
DocAraxá

DocAraxá Posted at 2017-6-21 08:46
Dear Pilots,

I will give my humble opinion: I do believe you achieve master attitude when you do practice.

Totally agree - steep learning curve and so on. One critical thing is predictable behaviour vs erratic behaviour. It is fine saying you must expect anything to happen and it is not the machines fault if it does something erratic and you are not ready - but Dji marketing and even the flight manuals, should not be saying one thing while the drone is doing another. Erratic GPS loss in good conditions is not an option for non-experienced flyers.

Ray_Dunakin Posted at 2017-6-18 21:15
What does "ATTI" stand for, anyway?

Atti stands for Attitude . Otherwise the drone will maintain attitude (self level itself) even without GPS . The operator still does not have to "Fly" the aircraft as the stabilization system will keep it upright and level . All the operator has to do basically is move the right stick 1 direction to counter the drift from any wind .  
The Mavic will not Fly Away and crash itself just because it went into Atti mode . It will self level itself and wait for the operator until wind blows it in a direction that may cause a crash if the operator fails to respond correctly .


Manual mode or "Acro" (Acrobatic) mode on race drones means that it will not self level and will continue the last command of a stick movement until the pilot counters it with a opposite stick input . This allows Rolls , Loops and flips .

rydfree41 Posted at 2017-6-22 03:44
Atti stands for Attitude . Otherwise the drone will maintain attitude (self level itself) even without GPS . The operator still does not have to "Fly" the aircraft as the stabilization system will keep it upright and level . All the operator has to do basically is move the right stick 1 direction to counter the drift from any wind .  
The Mavic will not Fly Away and crash itself just because it went into Atti mode . It will self level itself and wait for the operator until wind blows it in a direction that may cause a crash if the operator fails to respond correctly .

Great explanation for people like me who do not have the experience on drones other than the Mavic-class flyers.

Thank you