Hi Guys,

I've looked at my user manual for my DJI Phantom 3 Standard and it did not mention discharging my battery every 20 cycles, but documents for the intelligent phantom 3 battery online state otherwise..

I've charged the battery 21 times, do I need to discharge it now?

Thanks.

The latest battery manual from DJI says to do it at least once every 3 months, doesn't mention the number of charge cycles. Most of the folks I've seen comments from recommend to discharge every 20. Here's a video about battery maintenance from Drone Valley I think is pretty good.

No it is not necessary as far as I am concerned.

It is possible though that it resets the COUNTER in the board .. but it will do nothing for the battery cells itself. Ask any experienced LiPo user .... DJI batterys are LiPo with a fancy board on the front end.

If you are using them correctly ... that is full charge to fly, landing before too low ... storing and later charging up for next flight ... have auto discharge set at 2 or 3 days ... then you are fine.

Note that many videos / advisorys are old hat ...

I have over a hundred LiPo's of many different sizes and types including DJI ... I store, charge and use .... that's it.

Nigel

Are people still doing an intelligent flight pack Soft Breakin period?

You know, where you're only taking your new packs down to 50% capacity, for the first 10 or 20 flights?
Because that was a lot of lost flight time, by cutting those first flights, more or less in half, essentially.


RedHotPoker

That is another perpetuated myth ...

The days of 'conditioning' a pack are long gone ... its NiXX territory ...

Even todays NiMh are factory ready for work ...

Nigel

With the battery turned off - press and hold down the power button for several seconds - the number of LED's that turn on show the remaining life cycle of the pack. If all 4 turn on you don't need to discharge anything.

A CW Posted at 2018-1-7 12:27
With the battery turned off - press and hold down the power button for several seconds - the number of LED's that turn on show the remaining life cycle of the pack. If all 4 turn on you don't need to discharge anything.

???????

Sorry ... but I am wondering where you get that from ?

Life Cycles is purely the % number of full charge cycles the pack has had - it gives no other info at all ...

Nigel

solentlife Posted at 2018-1-7 12:47
???????

Sorry ... but I am wondering where you get that from ?

Do it and you'll see. It came from the Phantom 2 lipos and still indicates on my P4P batteries. Take a battery with say a 50% charge and hold the power button for 5 or so seconds - the number of LED's that show up indicate how much life the battery has left. It does the same on the Mavic batteries but not the Spark. It's a known fact.

A CW Posted at 2018-1-7 12:54
Do it and you'll see. It came from the Phantom 2 lipos and still indicates on my P4P batteries. Take a battery with say a 50% charge and hold the power button for 5 or so seconds - the number of LED's that show up indicate how much life the battery has left. It does the same on the Mavic batteries but not the Spark. It's a known fact.

We all know that ....

My question is : What has that to do with OP's question of whether to do full discharge etc. ?

Think of it like ... Your cars gasoline tank gauge shows half empty - does that mean you should now have a full service ?

Nigel

FatherXmas Posted at 2018-1-7 10:44
The latest battery manual from DJI says to do it at least once every 3 months, doesn't mention the number of charge cycles. Most of the folks I've seen comments from recommend to discharge every 20. Here's a video about battery maintenance from Drone Valley I think is pretty good.

https://youtu.be/I9sc-8VZemg

BUSTED
Forums are full of myths and alternative facts.
This is just another one.
It's simple to check DJI's battery Guidelines and see for yourself.
There's no mention of having to do anything like this.
https://dl.djicdn.com/downloads/ ... y+Guidelines+En.pdf

They most certainly are full of myths - sometimes!

solentlife Posted at 2018-1-7 23:41
We all know that ....

My question is : What has that to do with OP's question of whether to do full discharge etc. ?

Not everyone does know that - you clearly didn’t hence your list of question marks! In future, if have a question for me then one will suffice...
BTW, in answer to your next question - DJI have built this feature into their batteries as it also a known fact that by discharging and recharging you revive some of the cells to extend the life cycle hence checking using the power hold feature and discharging in line with the battery LED's rather than every 20 charges.
Probably best to think of it as a drone and not a car...

A CW Posted at 2018-1-8 00:14
Not everyone does know that - you clearly didn’t hence your list of question marks! In future, if have a question for me then one will suffice...
BTW, in answer to your next question - DJI have built this feature into their batteries as it also a known fact that by discharging and recharging you revive some of the cells to extend the life cycle hence checking using the power hold feature and discharging in line with the battery LED's rather than every 20 charges.
Probably best to think of it as a drone and not a car...

Sorry that is absolute tosh ...

I am fully aware of the LED sequences and uses on DJI batterys and gear.  I do not need you to make accusations.

It is total rubbish to even suggest that LiPo cell revival occurs when discharge cycled ... the days of NiCd's and breaking crystalline structure buildup are long gone.
A LiPo cell once damaged is irreparable ... its permanent.

The only advantage of periodic deep discharge is the resetting of the charge board counter on front end of battery ... it corrects the accumulated errors of partial discharges. It has no other function or benefit. It doesn't even fully balance the cells ..... because the cycle terminates before balancing has any chance of completing.

Nigel

solentlife Posted at 2018-1-8 01:08
Sorry that is absolute tosh ...

I am fully aware of the LED sequences and uses on DJI batterys and gear.  I do not need you to make accusations.

I'm not referring to damage I'm referring to useage and when I fully discharge/fully recharge my total mAh capacity revives - why is that??????????????????????????????????? Something to do with petrol LOL
Now, after your feeble attempt to 'RUBBISH' my posts I would very much appreciate it if you never reply to any of my posts on this forum again. People come on here to help, not to be belittled and undermined by - people like you shall we say out of politeness. It would be most unfortunate if you were banned...
Good bye!

I value that forums can inform and help not only new owners but also long term owners ... we always learn each day something.

When I see misinformation - I feel its incumbent to correct it and weather the possible storm of the misinformant. New owners / those who are unaware - need to understand.

As to discharging and recovering 'missing mAh' or capacity - that is also tosh. What actually happens is that the board on the front of the DJI battery literally in plain words gets out of step with the battery itself. Because of the programming - if it reports less capacity - the FW and Failsafes act on that figure. The battery most likely has more capacity than being reported but board doesn't show it.
Periodic discharge to a lower level than usual flight can reset that boards counter and be more representative of the batterys actual capacity. This gives the illusion that you have gained capacity when in fact all that's happened is board has been corrected.
Is it really necessary to do this ? Well that depends on how you fly / use your batterys. If you are a flyer who only flies short times and rarely pulls their batterys down to a lower level - then yes it can be worth a periodic deep discharge to correct that counter. But if like many - you fly for longer and usually land with battery in the sub 30% or lower charge state - then its most likely a unnecessary exercise .. or maybe just to do it once a year or so !!

Dragging a LiPo down as it used to be advised by DJI was literally a balance of resetting counter but also risking damage to one or more cells. Later FW has actually modified the voltage cutoff point when deep discharging to just over 3V per cell. Do not confuse this with FLIGHT low voltage cut-off which is higher. The later FW has basically recognised the error of pulling a LiPo cell below 3V ...  

I do not post this sort of information to be 'smart' or insult ... but to help others who may not be aware of LiPo workings ...

I do not appreciate being insulted nor harangued for doing so.

I along with others have answered OP's question - my posts have tried to add some detail to why / what.

Nigel

solentlife Posted at 2018-1-8 02:23
I value that forums can inform and help not only new owners but also long term owners ... we always learn each day something.

When I see misinformation - I feel its incumbent to correct it and weather the possible storm of the misinformant. New owners / those who are unaware - need to understand.

I do not appreciate the tone or manner in which you rubbished my posts. There are ways to communicate and correct other members without insulting, undermining and belittling them by stating that their responses are TOSH, and RUBBISH as they simply conflict with your understanding. I speak from my personal experience and I am entitled to express my knowledge and experience and have done so with great success on this forum for a long time. My reply was addressed to the OP and never to you in the first place. My feedback is that the OP does not speciifcally need to panic and discharge/recharge every 20 flights.
He can use the battery level indicator by holding down the power button on the battery for 5 seconds to gauge how much life is left in the cells (a feature you obviously knew nothing about).
In my personal experience of owning seven DJI drones over the years, discharging the battery and recharging periodcially revives the total mAh remaining and he can use the 5 second hold method as an alternative to the 20 flights to gauge when to do it.
I stand by that as it always works for me and is very much on topic to help the OP.
No need to be rude. Conversation closed.

Cue the violins .....

Nigel

solentlife Posted at 2018-1-8 02:50
Cue the violins .....

Nigel

I would expect nothing less than a reply like that, Nigel. Thats my upvote BTW. ;-)

Face it. Nigel has always given correct and explicit advice.

Betamace Posted at 2018-1-8 03:12
Face it. Nigel has always given correct and explicit advice.  No sense in following this thread any further.

So have I.

Its actually quite interesting and funny.

When I joined this illustrious Forum (just for the record - my time here in no way is indicative of my time with Multi Rotors / RC and various other forums ... ) - the continued argument FOR Deep Discharge was rife ... I can remember positing why it was damaging and not to be adhered to so strictly as some were posting. Some of those were long term members who had basically 'ruled the roost' and no-one dared contradict. Soon others were posting about possible damage to LiPo's in deep discharging .. it seemed a tide gate had opened. Soon even the 'old-hands' joined the party and we see the DJI manual revised !

I do not claim to be the instigator or reason the change of the discharge matter. I think I just coincided with others and probably DJI change of heart. It was most likely already running its course when I stumbled in.

For those interested - 3 people, one being myself, one being an electronics expert and the third a Batterys expert from having worked with all types and the evolution of ... we three explored the DJI P3 batterys - dismantling, measuring, trying to solve the riddles and questions we read and had. There's no formal write-up as it was basically for own use and info. But what it did was to show us myths and legends about them - the most obvious was the limited balancing it can accomplish.
Add this to our extensive experience of LiIon / LiPo in standard and High Voltage form ...

But at end of day - I am like all others - human and make mistakes. There are a small number of assumptions we had to make - explore any science subject and you will find they all have assumptions at times to enable research to continue ... later results uphold or dispel those assumptions. Very little we found has been dispelled.

It is based on that work, many years of use of LiPo's and batterys that I wish to help others.

As time marches on - who knows what other changes DJI will make to battery FW - that of course alters the playing field.

So - Charge up your batterys ... go and fly - enjoy it ...

Nigel

A CW Posted at 2018-1-8 02:42
I do not appreciate the tone or manner in which you rubbished my posts. There are ways to communicate and correct other members without insulting, undermining and belittling them by stating that their responses are TOSH, and RUBBISH as they simply conflict with your understanding. I speak from my personal experience and I am entitled to express my knowledge and experience and have done so with great success on this forum for a long time. My reply was addressed to the OP and never to you in the first place. My feedback is that the OP does not speciifcally need to panic and discharge/recharge every 20 flights.
He can use the battery level indicator by holding down the power button on the battery for 5 seconds to gauge how much life is left in the cells (a feature you obviously knew nothing about).
In my personal experience of owning seven DJI drones over the years, discharging the battery and recharging periodcially revives the total mAh remaining and he can use the 5 second hold method as an alternative to the 20 flights to gauge when to do it.

Thanks, and everyone else for the input. It's interesting you mention the battery level indicator when pressing the power button and holding for 5 seconds - as I've checked this a few times since I've had my drone, and the level it is at is still on 4 lights.

Would you recommend any kind of discharge of the battery if the LED lights went down to 3,2,1, or simply continue  to charge my battery fully before flight, and up to say 40-60% when left idle for more than a week? if this will help preserve the battery's life

I leave mine at 30-50% when idle for more than 3 days. I discharge to 5% when the 4th LED begins flashing after holding for 5 seconds then fully recharge and the flashing stops. When you view the battery data in the app before and after you will see a slight increase in the total mAh display. This helps to preserve the battery. I still have 4 LED’s on my high capacity batteries from 2016.

At the end of the day, they are your batteries in your drone and thus your property - there are different methods in how to maintain them but what I do has worked for me over the years and I’m happy to share that with others on this forum - albeit whether it is technically the right or wrong approach is irrespective IMO as that it what I do and will continue to do so. What others wish to share as alternative methods is up to them.   

I repeat ... it has not suddenly repaired or rejuvenated any cell ...

The change in reported mAh is based on the 'counter' being corrected in the board ... the cells themselves are same before and after !!

Give me strength !!  Nothing to do with alternative methods .. its INTERPRETATION of why the change ...

Nigel

solentlife Posted at 2018-1-8 05:35
I repeat ... it has not suddenly repaired or rejuvenated any cell ...

The change in reported mAh is based on the 'counter' being corrected in the board ... the cells themselves are same before and after !!

Yeah thanks. I think the OP has his options now.

There's a website that pops up occasionally from a guy who says he can rejuvenate ANY battery - even Dry-cells / Alkaline ...

Another site that sells a charger for non-rechargeable batterys ....

The incredible thing is that some people fall for this crap and actually BUY the gear !!


Nigel

solentlife Posted at 2018-1-8 06:06
There's a website that pops up occasionally from a guy who says he can rejuvenate ANY battery - even Dry-cells / Alkaline ...

Another site that sells a charger for non-rechargeable batterys ....

Thats alarming. I only buy from DJI.

Did you guys make up?  If so that escalated and then desclated  in record time.  

Oracle Miata Posted at 2018-1-8 06:25
Did you guys make up?  If so that escalated and then desclated  in record time.

Just a difference in opinion mate - we're all adults here.

Good to see we can get past differences in opinion, even when tone can be misrepresented in text.  Kudos.

If we were sitting in a bar ... it would all different ... trouble is words on a screen are not the words / picture in mind.

Too often offense is taken when its not intended ..

I have no personal matter with CW ... just a preference for correct info.

Nigel

solentlife Posted at 2018-1-8 06:06
There's a website that pops up occasionally from a guy who says he can rejuvenate ANY battery - even Dry-cells / Alkaline ...

Another site that sells a charger for non-rechargeable batterys ....

"a charger for non-rechargeable batterys"
Hey i have one of those, a commercial product bought in a supermarket, it actually works. Some brands/type of batteries are better than other, some can begin leaking but all in all it works for some cycles of recharge.
Also I have build desulfate circuits for Acid accumulators that have saved my a.. more than once.

Regarding the DJI batteries some of the 'magic' is the temperature when charged, i always let cool at least an hour before recharge, even it feels cool on the outside the core can still hold a high temperature and the colder the bat are, the more charge it takes.

I sometimes do the deep discharge way but also sometimes stop the charge when the fourth led has been flashing for some time, let bat rest again for an hour, turn on the bat and let it charge till  it power off itself.

It is hard to say if it makes any difference but i have seen no negative effect and have better flight time of the first bat so far compared to my spare that has only been used for 6 charges so far(app counter).

Pal I went to school with ended up as a senior Tech for Mallory - THE battery people.

He explained that dry cells can give a second belt - based on breakdown of the transferred material .. but the results are dangerous and can lead to split or rupture of the cells.

As regards Lead Acid - that's a different ball game as that has definite sulfate structure that can be dislodged by chemical addition. For years you could buy solution to pour into a battery to give a temporary lease of life ... but I haven't seen it for many years now.  With modern Lead Acid car batterys - the usual cause of death is the buckling and distortion of plates due to weakening / drawing too much current as they get older.

Charging DJI batterys ... if you charge as DJI says by just plugging in ... I found that it was reported as about 97% on average ... but if I switched on the battery before charging - even when down at 30% ... way below the 95% or so they say needs switch on .... I then got as near 100% charge as possible ... I did not have to reconnect to get that last bit in ...

Nigel

solentlife Posted at 2018-1-8 06:46
If we were sitting in a bar ... it would all different ... trouble is words on a screen are not the words / picture in mind.

Too often offense is taken when its not intended ..

Yeah, I agree with that.

Labroides Posted at 2018-1-7 23:56
BUSTED
Forums are full of myths and alternative facts.
This is just another one.

You must not have actually read the battery manual you referenced.

On the last page under Battery Maintenance, item 3 clearly says
'Fully charge and discharge the battery at least once every 3 months to maintain battery health.'

I have over 180 cycles and never calibrate... over 120 hours of flight ( with 3 battery)

FatherXmas Posted at 2018-1-8 08:22
You must not have actually read the battery manual you referenced.

On the last page under Battery Maintenance, item 3 clearly says

This has been a point of dispute with DJI for a long time.

As I indicated earlier - the damage sustained to batterys in the past due to failure of charge board to terminate discharge before too low a level has been near removed by FW now terminating discharge near just over 3V per cell. This is the industry recognised lowest safe level for a LiPo cell. 2.85V is the absolute lowest... and to be avoided.

DJI are in the business of not only producing the models - but also selling batterys .. don't forget that. I'm not saying they would deliberately mislead people to shorten their battery life .. but it is contrary to general RTC LiPo practice and advice.

Other manuals have had the advice removed ... but it still remains in the Battery Manual which definitely needs revision.

Nigel