Trying to do the recommended full discharge after 10 charge cycles, and I notice I cannot even turn motors on because "battery critically low"  do we have to just leave it on to drain?  Its been over 1 hour and only dropped to 2% and the camera is emitting crazy amounts of heat, so much heat its effecting the image on the ipad making it all pixalated . . .

remove the camera?

I've removed the camera now . . . seems like its discharging even slower . . . . Guess I'm really curious how the rest are completing the full discharge . . .

Acidsnow Posted at 2015-4-29 07:46
I've removed the camera now . . . seems like its discharging even slower . . . . Guess I'm really cu ...

I'm building a discharging unit... I will post here in a bit stay tuned!

I bring it back home after a normal flight and basically hover a few inches above the ground until it gets to below 5% like someone told me and then I land it when I need to discharge.

GENETTICO Posted at 2015-4-29 08:10
I'm building a discharging unit... I will post here in a bit stay tuned!

Looking forward to seeing your design!  

Haven't tried yet but can't you charge the controller with the battery? Will this drain the battery when it is down to 2%?

I don't know a lot about electronics, so excuse my question if it's out of line, but, why can't I just hook up a little 24 volt clearance light bulb and drain the battery that way?

It's supposed to be a smart battery and protect itself, so why not a bulb??

Check this...

http://www.inspirepilots.com/thr ... ry.2563/#post-27732

In the 15 yrs I have been flying lipo electric, I have ONLY discharged my packs in the air.
(what a complete waste of a perfectly good cycle, discharging it on the ground).

I have Never, under any circumstances, EVER discharged a lipo pack down until my airship would no longer function.

U guys keep messing/stressing these packs, and you'll be dropping out of the sky unannounced.
(like some of the recent "firmware" victims).

Like Lemmings jumping off a cliff, just blindly follow anything you read, (who cares if you understand any of it) - "splash"  



Bob "My Pack's Dead" Marley

Bob Marley Posted at 2015-4-29 13:18
In the 15 yrs I have been flying lipo electric, I have ONLY discharged my packs in the air.
(what a ...

"Like Lemmings jumping off a cliff, just blindly follow anything you read, (who cares if you understand any of it) - "splash"  


Spot on there Bob

Bob Marley Posted at 2015-4-29 13:18
In the 15 yrs I have been flying lipo electric, I have ONLY discharged my packs in the air.
(what a ...

I assume that this operation is only necessery for the "logic" in the smart battery ...
If you don't do the discharge cycle "now and then" the "logic" gets "off set" and the battery might "think" that it only have 10% left (and auto land) but in reality it's 25% and you could have been flyin a minute more ...

I had this in my recheargeable shaving machine (After using it for a couple of years)...
when it was new I could use it more then 10 times before it started flashing red, indicating that I needed to charge the batteries ... Recently it was down to  flashing red after only using it 1 time ... So I drained the battery (took more then 30 minutes although it "thought" it was almost empty) and the logic in the charger learned from this cycle and now I used it about 5 times, without charging, and it's still on 50% according to the indicator ...

Bob Marley Posted at 2015-4-29 13:18
I have Never, under any circumstances, EVER discharged a lipo pack down until my airship would no longer function.

Here's the part you apparently don't know.

With other systems, you are directly reading/interacting with the battery.  0% really means 0%.  And as a lot of people have pointed out, running one of these batteries all the way down will damage it.

DJI put a layer of "intelligence" between the battery and the user.  You are not interacting with the battery.  You are interacting with the firmware.  The firmware will tell you that the battery is at 0% when it is at a safe discharge, NOT when the cells are dangerously low.  And it will prevent the battery from powering the Inspire.  It's intended to be idiot-proof.

The PROBLEM is that if you are an experienced user of "raw" batteries and practice the techniques applicable to such batteries on the Inspire's batteries, you are maintaining a reserve on top of the reserve already being maintained by the "idiot-proof" firmware.  Which means that you are never properly deep-discharging the batteries.

"I assume that this operation is only necessery for the "logic" in the smart battery ...
If you don't do the discharge cycle "now and then" the "logic" gets "off set" and the battery might "think" that it only have 10% left (and auto land) but in reality it's 25% and you could have been flyin a minute more ..."

This ^^^ is just bullshit with absolutely NOTHING to substantiate it.  ^^^ (I assume it's something you read)
The rest of your post is completely meaningless, comparing Lipo to ni-cad is like comparing Pope Francis to myself
There is no way in hell I will EVER discharge one of these packs in that fashion. Never, (it's silly).
(mr dji could call me on the phone to personally to suggest that ridiculous discharge and I will laugh in his billion dollar face!)

My packs are perfect in every way right now. I also fly with my trusty timer around my neck, (so there are never any "surprises" in my camp).
I shut my packs down at 20% remaining, never lower. I have a watt meter connected inline so I know "exactly" how much juice I used, and how much I am putting back it. My battery telemetry is working correctly right now and I am pleased so far.

My experienced recommendation is, if your packs are functioning like they should be then DO NOT MESS WITH THEM.


I am dumbfounded by the extremely high percentage of peeps who own Inspires and posses ZERO knowledge about lipo packs.
It's the only thing keeping your bird in the air, (yet everyone wants a new driver but will spend little time on the putting green).


Bob "pack master" Marley

PeteGould Posted at 2015-4-29 21:41
Bob Marley Posted at 2015-4-29 13:18
DJI put a layer of "intelligence" between the battery and the user.  You are not interacting with the battery.  You are interacting with the firmware.  The firmware will tell you that the battery is at 0% when it is at a safe discharge, NOT when the cells are dangerously low. ...

This is incorrect, read my post above, and you will understand that there is no one on the planet interacting with their Inspire packs more than I am.


My packs are perfect in every way right now. I also [I]fly with my trusty timer around my neck,[/I](so there are never any "surprises" in my camp).
I shut my packs down at 20% remaining, never lower. I have a watt meter connected inline so I know "exactly" how much juice I used, and how much I am putting back it. My battery telemetry is working correctly right now and I am pleased so far



I have "shoots" scheduled all day today, you guys can hang out on the web and decide who's gonna start the next "I bird suddenly fell from the sky" thread.


Bob

Bob Marley Posted at 2015-4-29 21:43
... bullshit ...

I am going to assume that your "bullshit" comment was directed at another post and not mine - even though it seems to be pointing at mine,  must have been in the timing of the post.  

It's all good Pete, I know you are only trying to help - (but there is nothing "new" here).

Fun Fact ....... "smart batteries are neither new, nor intelligent".
They were designed strictly to prevent idiots from burning their houses down, (they should have spent a few extra minutes of thought on their 100w power supply - lol)

Bob "I'm going flying" Marley

Bob Marley Posted at 2015-4-29 21:49
This is incorrect, read my post above, and you will understand that there is no one on the planet  ...

By "this is incorrect," you appear to be operating under the presumption that you know more about a manufacturer's product than the manufacturer.  This is incorrect.  

I am not the manufacturer.  Despite decades of of engineering experience including the design/build of several television production facilities I do not presume to know what the manufacturer knows about their own systems.  Consequently when the manufacturer speaks I am rather inclined to listen (or, in this case, read).  I have read not only product literature but the explanations supplied, in response to questions, by manufacturers' representatives over the months this product has been on the market.  The fact that the battery has upgradable firmware should tip you off that there's more going on under the hood than you have considered.

If you'd like to ignore that for your own equipment that's your business.  But it is irresponsible to get on a manufacturer's forum and tell fellow members to ignore the usage guidelines promulgated by said manufacturer's own engineering personnel.  When an Inspire falls from the sky and DJI is considering whether to replace it for free, they will not accept "Bob told me to do it this way" as a justification for never having deep-discharged the battery.

Bob Marley Posted at 2015-4-29 21:43
"I assume that this operation is only necessery for the "logic" in the smart battery ...
If you do ...

I am only trying to understand why they want us to do this discharge now and then as there apperantly is no "memory effect" in theese batteries (at least what I have been told on this forum).
Sometimes I'm wrong because some TOOL gave me incorrect information ... in that case I am very happy to be straightend out

It might be like this ... if you keep flying down to 20% and rechearge from that level ... Soon enough the "logic" within the battery will "think" that 20% is 0% ... And the idiot proof software will shorten your flight time ... the same thing that happened with the "intelligent charger" in my shaver ... And It's funny that you think I own a cheap shaver with ni-cd batteries in it ... The freakin thing even tells me when to add oil

PeteGould Posted at 2015-4-29 22:07
By "this is incorrect," you appear to be operating under the presumption that you know more about  ...

With my theory there will never be any risk flying the inspire without doing the discharge operation now and then ... It will only give you less flight time (wich is bad enough) ...
If I am right ... You could do the discharge when ever you suspect you are not getting as many minutes out of each flight as you should ... After the complete discharge the software will update the calculated flight time for the battery.

This "behavior" is actually not that unusual if you read the operation manual for alot of recheargable equipment that has some kind of indicator letting you know the estimated power level of the battery ... And this is why it is so common that the manual states that we should fully charge the battery the first time and then drain it before the next charge (this is when the software is calculating/learning the operation time of one cycle) ...

w1der Posted at 2015-4-30 01:06
It might be like this ... if you keep flying down to 20% and rechearge from that level ... Soon enough the "logic" within the battery will "think" that 20% is 0% ...

I agree with your theory.  Specifically:  (a) I agree there is no memory effect with lipo batteries, and  (b) I agree that the issue has to do with how the software interprets battery levels, possibly adapting (wrongly) to batteries that are never deep-discharged.

My CONCERN, and I don't know whether it's valid without someone from DJI commenting, is that we have no idea what software algorithm is used to count down those percentages on the remaining charge.  We DO know that when it decides the battery has discharged to the minimum safe level, it will absolutely turn the sucker off, even if that means dropping the Inspire from 100' onto concrete or into a quick-flowing opaque brown river.  I've now heard several instances - we all have - of batteries with seemingly normal amounts of charge (40%+, 70%+) going from that amount to ridiculously low (8%) in a matter of a very few seconds.  We've also had some Inspires shut off, reportedly without warning, and drop.  The unanswerable (to us) question is: is this a physical fault of the Inspire, or of the battery itself, or could it be the result of the "Intelligent" component of the battery system going haywire because it lost track of a reference that is maintained by deep-discharging?  I have not a clue because I don't know if they made any part of the battery software algorithm adaptive or if it just uses a preprogrammed hard reference as its benchmark (in which case the software doesn't give a rip about deep discharging).  An adaptive component would make some sense because it would deal with alterations in battery behavior as it ages.

What I DO know is that as long as these things are happening and DJI appears to be stepping forward from time to time and covering these disasters, I want to do (and encourage others to do) EXACTLY what DJI says to do in maintaining these things.  The very last thing I would want to see happen to ANYONE is that they follow user advice in this forum that does not square with DJI's recommended practices, and find that it cost someone a warranty replacement of a destroyed aircraft.

Hi guys
I discharged the battery until 2%, then charge it until about 50%. Put it back in the  Inspire and powered on the whole system.
In the App there was again the same message, that I have to discharge the battery lower than 5%.
Question:
Will this message disappear only when the battery, will be fully charched?
Thanks for help

druefenacht.gmx Posted at 2015-4-30 01:59
Hi guys
I discharged the battery until 2%, then charge it until about 50%. Put it back in the  Inspi ...

This was the same for me allthough I charged to 100% ...
However the message eventually dissapered after 1 or 2 "normal" cycles ...

At first I thought that this message was actually only a "reminder" and was not promted from any actual "reading" made from the battery ... I'm still not sure what to think ...

O.k. w1der thaks for your info. I will verfy it and post my results.

Bob Marley Posted at 2015-4-29 13:18
In the 15 yrs I have been flying lipo electric, I have ONLY discharged my packs in the air.
(what a ...

Bob,
How do you recommend storage of these Lipos? What bat level? I trust a vet any day! Thanks...


Jim

jimcloud74@yaho Posted at 2015-5-1 03:05
Bob,
How do you recommend storage of these Lipos? What bat level? I trust a vet any day! Thanks... ...

Same as dji recommends 50%

Just as lipos never like to be left lying around empty, they also do not like being left lying around fully charged.

If you're not gonna be using them for a couple weeks, hover around ur backyard or driveway til they are at 50%
Like practicing on the putting green, it's not as much fun as the Driving Range, but important to really hone your "close quarter" flying skills.
(and a MUCH better way of discharging your packs then powering a fan or flashlight with them)

Bob "pack master" Marley