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How does your Pro handle winds when not in Sports Mode?
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Wellsi
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So ever since the "Dover incident" I've been a bit wary of flying in strong winds; but a couple of times I found the Pro really struggling when in apparently light winds, making me jump into Sports Mode in order to get it going again.
So last week on a windy day, I chucked the Pro and the Air on a few similar trips, flying into a pretty strong diagonal head wind.
When not in Sports Mode, the Pro really struggled, whereas the Air sliced through.
Switch to Sports Mode and suddenly the Pro was fine.
I tend to not fly in Sports Mode; I want the sensors to stay on and also I just find the controls a little too fast for what I want to do when videoing.
So I'm just interested in how other people find the Pro in wind when not in Sports mode?  Does it drift? And more to the point, if the Air can handle wind in standard mode, and the pro can handle wind if it's in Sports Mode, I just wonder why it can't seem to handle winds when not in sports mode; it's obviously got the capability to overcome the wind, but doesn't...

You jump to 7:40 on this video and the Pro is being blown backwards and sidewards.

Cheers as ever
Ian





2018-2-18
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hallmark007
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It almost looks like there is no torque in the Mavic , I’ve seen quite a few get caught short in RTH mode with the Mavic Pro , I will have to try same test myself. Had MavAir out yesterday in 32kph winds and it really handles it well in normal mode.
I know P4Pro is exceptionally good flying into wind so it’s not a weight issue. Anyways thanks for the test, it does show that Mavic May have a real problem if you need to fly RTH into the wind.
2018-2-18
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CycleParadise
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I was flying today and kept getting high-winds warning. It didn't seem that windy, but I know above the ground it can be a lot windier than on the ground - plus maybe the trees around me were providing some protection.

I was trying to frame up some shots and the drone was drifting a bit. Nothing too serious, just made it hard to frame up "perfectly".

Reading about the troubles others had while trying to return home, I was very cautious while flying. But I never had trouble with the drone during flight.

Oh, I never used Sport mode.
2018-2-18
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A CW
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Brilliantly! Hardly experience horizon tilts using my MPP with the 8331 props. I've flown in 30MPH winds this winter without any issues.
2018-2-18
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Wellsi
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A CW Posted at 2018-2-18 12:44
Brilliantly! Hardly experience horizon tilts using my MPP with the 8331 props. I've flown in 30MPH winds this winter without any issues.

Is that in Sports Mode though?  That's my main query....  I'm just surprised at how good the Air is not in Sports mode, compared to how quickly the Pro grinds to a halt unless it's in SPorts mode...  (Don't get me wrong; I love my Pro! )  

Ian
2018-2-18
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A CW
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Wellsi Posted at 2018-2-18 12:46
Is that in Sports Mode though?  That's my main query....  I'm just surprised at how good the Air is not in Sports mode, compared to how quickly the Pro grinds to a halt unless it's in SPorts mode...  (Don't get me wrong; I love my Pro! )  

Ian

No - P-mode with OA turned off. I rarely use Sport mode unless having a bit of fun in fixed wing mode
2018-2-18
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Wellsi
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A CW Posted at 2018-2-18 12:47
No - P-mode with OA turned off. I rarely use Sport mode unless having a bit of fun in fixed wing mode

Okay... I'm a bit intrigued... be good if you had a play and check the speed / drift next time you're out in a strong breeze...  
I still need to play with Fixed wing mode properly....

Ian
2018-2-18
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A CW
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Wellsi Posted at 2018-2-18 12:51
Okay... I'm a bit intrigued... be good if you had a play and check the speed / drift next time you're out in a strong breeze...  
I still need to play with Fixed wing mode properly....

Flew yesterday at 400' AGL with wind warnings - flew out with the wind at 33MPH in P-mode minus OA and on my return I hit around 24MPH. No sport mode, no drift. I've posted a number of stills on here this weekend - I did not need to correct the horizon with cropping in any of them. My previous MP had tilt issues but the MPP is a champ! In Sport mode I've hit  41.6MPH on windless days. Despite this the motor RPM is so much less than the MP and the noise is massively reduced. I would never sell my MPP for the MA.
2018-2-18
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Wellsi
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A CW Posted at 2018-2-18 12:57
Flew yesterday at 400' AGL with wind warnings - flew out with the wind at 33MPH in P-mode minus OA and on my return I hit around 24MPH. No sport mode, no drift. I've posted a number of stills on here this weekend - I did not need to correct the horizon with cropping in any of them. My previous MP had tilt issues but the MPP is a champ! In Sport mode I've hit  41.6MPH on windless days. Despite this the motor RPM is so much less than the MP and the noise is massively reduced. I would never sell my MPP for the MA.

Oh, neither would I... If you have a Pro, there is barely any reason to get an Air; no two ways about that...  
I only got the Air to do some YouTube reviews and because I was actually selling my second Pro (the one purchased in haste in the USA for the eclipse last year). As it was, it sold for the same price as the new Air, so that worked out perfectly.....
I'm really impressed with your flights in wind though.  I wonder if the OA disabling allows it to speed up?  As in my vid, the Pro ground to a halt with 25 mph winds... twice... on different days...
Ian
2018-2-18
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hallmark007
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Wellsi Posted at 2018-2-18 13:02
Oh, neither would I... If you have a Pro, there is barely any reason to get an Air; no two ways about that...  
I only got the Air to do some YouTube reviews and because I was actually selling my second Pro (the one purchased in haste in the USA for the eclipse last year). As it was, it sold for the same price as the new Air, so that worked out perfectly.....
I'm really impressed with your flights in wind though.  I wonder if the OA disabling allows it to speed up?  As in my vid, the Pro ground to a halt with 25 mph winds... twice... on different days...

OA off will increase your speed, not sure what the specs are but it’s something around 34mph.
2018-2-18
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AEM74
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I usually have pretty good controls on P-mode when winds are 20-25 MPH. That being said, around beaches and higher elevation, the winds certainly do pick up and when gusts go to 30+ MPH, I usually have to go Sports Mode or else the Mavic starts to drift with the wind when hovering.

Highest winds I've flown were around 30 with gusts to 40 (I'm assuming based on elevation and being on the beach) and the Mavic was constantly pushing against the wind and only moving forward at around 1-3 MPH. I generally activate Sports mode and keep it on when winds are above 25 MPH on ground and I'm on the beach, as I find the gusts tend to mover the Mavic around a lot in P-mode.
2018-2-18
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hallmark007
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Wellsi Posted at 2018-2-18 13:02
Oh, neither would I... If you have a Pro, there is barely any reason to get an Air; no two ways about that...  
I only got the Air to do some YouTube reviews and because I was actually selling my second Pro (the one purchased in haste in the USA for the eclipse last year). As it was, it sold for the same price as the new Air, so that worked out perfectly.....
I'm really impressed with your flights in wind though.  I wonder if the OA disabling allows it to speed up?  As in my vid, the Pro ground to a halt with 25 mph winds... twice... on different days...

There speed is increased with no OA.
2018-2-18
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Oracle Miata
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I also find that the Air has less problems flying into the wind then the Pro in P-mode.  I don't understand why the Mavic Pro would need obstacle avoidance switched off whilst the Air is ok with it on.  I never switch it off in P-mode on any of them.
2018-2-18
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hallmark007
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Oracle Miata Posted at 2018-2-18 13:54
I also find that the Air has less problems flying into the wind then the Pro in P-mode.  I don't understand why the Mavic Pro would need obstacle avoidance switched off whilst the Air is ok with it on.  I never switch it off in P-mode on any of them.

It’s a strange one.
Mavic Pro 16 degree pitch 22mph in P mode
MavAir 15 degree pitch 19 mph in P mode
P4Pro 25 degree pitch 31mph in P mode

Mavic Pro seems to have a problem with RTH into the wind and I don’t know why.
2018-2-18
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A CW
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hallmark007 Posted at 2018-2-18 14:22
It’s a strange one.
Mavic Pro 16 degree pitch 22mph in P mode
MavAir 15 degree pitch 19 mph in P mode

Thats due to the max speed being capped given the braking distance of each drone in line with the obstacle avoidance detection range. P4P is 30m, MP 15m etc
2018-2-18
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A CW
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Oracle Miata Posted at 2018-2-18 13:54
I also find that the Air has less problems flying into the wind then the Pro in P-mode.  I don't understand why the Mavic Pro would need obstacle avoidance switched off whilst the Air is ok with it on.  I never switch it off in P-mode on any of them.

It doesn't 'need' it but by switching it off the drone doesn't need to cap it's max speed in order to react to detection. When my drone is 400' up in open skies I see no point to obstacle avoidance - turning it off maximises the air speed in p-mode so you'll get over 30MPH without draining the battery as quickly or impacting as heavily on the drones sensitivity to your commands as if you use Sport mode.  
2018-2-18
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Oracle Miata
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A CW Posted at 2018-2-18 15:02
It doesn't 'need' it but by switching it off the drone doesn't need to cap it's max speed in order to react to detection. When my drone is 400' up in open skies I see no point to obstacle avoidance - turning it off maximises the air speed in p-mode so you'll get over 30MPH without draining the battery as quickly or impacting as heavily on the drones sensitivity to your commands as if you use Sport mode.

It’s cool, I see what you’re saying.  My experience is that the MP that I own absolutely has a problem flying directly into wind in P-mode.  I have not tried turning of the OA.  This will be be a interesting test to conduct on the next windy day.  I am glad that your MPP continues to serve you well.
2018-2-18
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A CW Posted at 2018-2-18 14:54
Thats due to the max speed being capped given the braking distance of each drone in line with the obstacle avoidance detection range. P4P is 30m, MP 15m etc

I understand that but you would think travelling at 22mph that Mavic Pro should have less difficulty with the wind, and this would also have consequences for RTH with Mavic Pro.
2018-2-18
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A CW
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hallmark007 Posted at 2018-2-18 15:18
I understand that but you would think travelling at 22mph that Mavic Pro should have less difficulty with the wind, and this would also have consequences for RTH with Mavic Pro.

May be they tweaked the motors in recent models/MPP as I don't get those issues with mine. Very odd why that would happen - perhaps the older ESC's needing to prevent a motor overload in fighting faster winds. I genuinely believe DJI have done a lot more to the Platinum upgrade than they claim - it is like flying a different drone. I know the MA uses the same FOC sinusoidal ESC's as the MPP - why they didn't put low noise props on the MA baffles me!
2018-2-18
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A CW
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Oracle Miata Posted at 2018-2-18 15:15
It’s cool, I see what you’re saying.  My experience is that the MP that I own absolutely has a problem flying directly into wind in P-mode.  I have not tried turning of the OA.  This will be be a interesting test to conduct on the next windy day.  I am glad that your MPP continues to serve you well.

Thanks mate - it sure does. Switch off the OA (obviously with nothing around the drone) and try it. It will definitely be faster but it could also be due to the older designed ESC's.
2018-2-18
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Henry M.Y.
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Hi Ian,

What you experienced with Mavic Pro and Mavic Air heading into wind were exactly the same as I experienced with mine. My Mavic Pro (with OA on) struggled and was dragged sideway in wind but my Mavic Air (also with OA on) handled the wind smoothly.

There were notices popped up that caught my eyes when I first flew my Mavic Air under strong wind - "Attitude is too large. Backward Obstacle Sensing is not functioning." and "Attitude is too large. Forward Obstacle Sensing is not functioning.". I have never seen this kind of notice with my Mavic Pro under strong wind, in any version of firmware.

I think the difference between the headwind handling ability of the Mavic Pro and that of the Mavic Air is because not only the Mavic Air has a smaller frontal projection area, but also the Mavic Air's flight algorithm handles headwind differently - by design the Mavic Air will abandon the functioning of Obstacles Avoidance and will tilt more than 15 degree in overcoming strong headwind. By design of its flight algorithm, the Mavic Pro will alway limit its tilt to not more than 16 degree to maintain the functioning of Obstacle Avoidance even under strong headwind, and together with its larger frontal projection area the Mavic Pro is more prone to be blown to crawling speed or prone to drift sideway.

Hope my observations ease your concerns and my analogies help to explain the reasons behind the observations.

Henry
2018-2-18
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Oracle Miata
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Henry M.Y. Posted at 2018-2-18 16:15
Hi Wellsi,

What you experienced with Mavic Pro and Mavic Air heading into wind were exactly the same as I experienced with mine. My Mavic Pro (with OA on) struggled and was dragged sideway in wind but my Mavic Air (also with OA on) handled the wind smoothly.

Well that makes a ridiculous amount of sense... thank you.
2018-2-18
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Wellsi
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Henry M.Y. Posted at 2018-2-18 16:15
Hi Wellsi,

What you experienced with Mavic Pro and Mavic Air heading into wind were exactly the same as I experienced with mine. My Mavic Pro (with OA on) struggled and was dragged sideway in wind but my Mavic Air (also with OA on) handled the wind smoothly.

HI Henry
What you say makes perfect sense!  I never had the 'attitude too large' warning on the Pro, and others on here have mentioned that turning off Obstacle Avoidance on the Pro will fix this issue.  
So it looks like you have hit the nail on the head; the AIR auto-disables the sensor, allowing it to fly at a harder angle, whilst the Pro maintains a more level flight to keep the sensor working, but limits itself in its ability to fly fast in a head wind.
I do note the 'attitude too large' message always mentions the rear sensors though, and the Pro doesn't have rear sensors....  But I'm sure this is all connected.
(Wish you'd messaged this on the YT video; I could have pinned the comment to the top for everyone to read when they watch. )
Cheers
Ian
2018-2-18
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LoSBoL
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And here was me thinking the Air felt dead slow with a headwind. :x
2018-2-19
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$gambino$
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Here he goes that "guy" whose mpp is so magical dude seriously ac w? Anyways i noticed my mav pro does the same thing in wind especially during rth. The air does do a good job at fighting the wind for how small it is. Basically my air performs better then my pro with oa on and off
2018-2-19
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LoSBoL Posted at 2018-2-19 00:30
And here was me thinking the Air felt dead slow with a headwind. :x

What speeds do you get?
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A CW Posted at 2018-2-19 02:17
What speeds do you get?

I don't know, I had my eye on the bird, so it could be desceptive, I flipped the Sport switch before I took a look on the screen.

It might have been to windy at that occasion. I've had strong wind warnings before at lower altitude, but it was doing a good 28 km per hour.
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LoSBoL Posted at 2018-2-19 04:00
I don't know, I had my eye on the bird, so it could be desceptive, I flipped the Sport switch before I took a look on the screen.

It might have been to windy at that occasion. I've had strong wind warnings before at lower altitude, but it was doing a good 28 km per hour.

Thanks! That speed is not too bad with wind warnings.
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LoSBoL
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A CW Posted at 2018-2-19 04:01
Thanks! That speed is not too bad with wind warnings.

What is worth mentioning is that at those speeds with windwarnings the Air tilts beyond the Obstacle Detection limits.
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LoSBoL Posted at 2018-2-19 04:05
What is worth mentioning is that at those speeds with windwarnings the Air tilts beyond the Obstacle Detection limits.

Yeah I've read that - does that mean the OA turns off without the pilot being aware? That could be quite dangerous at lower altitudes, especially if a noob is flying and thinks the OA is working...
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A CW Posted at 2018-2-19 04:09
Yeah I've read that - does that mean the OA turns off without the pilot being aware? That could be quite dangerous at lower altitudes, especially if a noob is flying and thinks the OA is working...



Can't miss it, as long as you watch the screen once in a while. I don't recall if it also beeps at those times.

edit: by looking at it again, it looks like downwards obstacle sensing is not effected.
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A CW
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LoSBoL Posted at 2018-2-19 04:16
[view_image]

Can't miss it, as long as you watch the screen once in a while. I don't recall if it also beeps at those times.

Got it! That's interesting. I always wondered why switching off the OA on the MP/P fights the wind much more effectively. Obviously to do with pitch angles of the drone but to do this automatically is a great feature on the Air.
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Wellsi Posted at 2018-2-18 22:34
HI Henry
What you say makes perfect sense!  I never had the 'attitude too large' warning on the Pro, and others on here have mentioned that turning off Obstacle Avoidance on the Pro will fix this issue.  
So it looks like you have hit the nail on the head; the AIR auto-disables the sensor, allowing it to fly at a harder angle, whilst the Pro maintains a more level flight to keep the sensor working, but limits itself in its ability to fly fast in a head wind.

Hi Ian,

Excuse me for addressing you as Wellsi in my earlier post.

I've messaged my 2 cents onto your YT video. I have been following your videos in the past, and learnt a lot from them.

Thanks a lot, and looking forward to seeing more!

Henry

2018-2-19
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Wellsi
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Thanks Henry; I've pinned the comment; really appreciate it!
LosBol and CW
It's clear to me now that the AIR auto-disables the obstacle sensors (with pop up warnings) so it can achieve a faster speed, whilst the PRO  limits its pitch to ensure the sensors keep on functioning, but severely limiting its speed in doing so.  
I know which functionality I would prefer; most users would not make the connection between disabling senors to maintain speed in high wind. And not everyone wants to use Sports Mode.

This is a major difference in functionality and I'm surprised it's not been more widely reported.
So this has been a really useful thread for me.

Thanks to all
Ian
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They are 2 totally different sized AC as well, different wind profiles. The props are bigger on the Mavic Pro correct? I'm sure that has to effect it in some way as well, has anyone tired adjusting the parameters either using NLD or just editing the config to give the Mavic Pro more angle of attack and speed it up a little in P-mode?
2018-2-19
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Wellsi
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Strobing_NYC Posted at 2018-2-19 13:56
They are 2 totally different sized AC as well, different wind profiles. The props are bigger on the Mavic Pro correct? I'm sure that has to effect it in some way as well, has anyone tired adjusting the parameters either using NLD or just editing the config to give the Mavic Pro more angle of attack and speed it up a little in P-mode?

The props are bigger, but TBH, I think Hallmark laid it out perfectly in post #12 on here; with sensors disabled (either manually, or in sports mode), the Pro will allow its pitch to increase from 16' to 25', increasing its max speed from 22mph to 36 mph.   That's the fundamental reason for my findings, with the sensors left on. And a fundamental difference between how the Pro handles winds and how the AIR does when flying in standard mode.

Cheer,
Ian
2018-2-19
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Lamplighter55
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This is a great help! I had my MPP slip into ATTI mode (due to the compass needing a re-calbrate) and as there was a prevailing wind the MPP started to drift away with a slow pirouette/yaw ... I was able to regain control and centred up into the wind - but the drift was still there and the MPP was going backwards. I had to drop the MPP down into slower more turbulent air to make headway back to Home. Next time I'll switch off OA once at height.
2018-2-20
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Wellsi Posted at 2018-2-19 08:54
Thanks Henry; I've pinned the comment; really appreciate it!
LosBol and CW
It's clear to me now that the AIR auto-disables the obstacle sensors (with pop up warnings) so it can achieve a faster speed, whilst the PRO  limits its pitch to ensure the sensors keep on functioning, but severely limiting its speed in doing so.  

Very useful thread Ian - good to know how the drones perform.
2018-2-20
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I'm wondering what sensors actually register wind velocity on the Mavic Pro - if the ultrasonic 'clickers' switch off when above landing hight, and if they are used to gage wind speed as well.
2018-2-20
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Wellsi
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Lamplighter55 Posted at 2018-2-20 09:40
I'm wondering what sensors actually register wind velocity on the Mavic Pro - if the ultrasonic 'clickers' switch off when above landing hight, and if they are used to gage wind speed as well.

None will sense the wind (they would need an anenometer!).  It's just a mix of thrust commanded versus GPS-based movement that dictates the pitch....  Ian
2018-2-21
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