Let's say I'm in a backyard 5 miles away from an airport, and the flight restriction is a 6 mile radius. If I flew my drone 5-10 feet off the ground out the backyard, would I technically be violating airspace regulations? Is it a no fly zone at any altitude, even at a few feet which seems like it could not cause a problem to aircraft landing or taking off 5 miles away? When I check the various FAA mobile apps, it appears it's technically a no-fly zone. But at a few feet five miles away? Is this where common sense can override the flight restriction? Or not?

As long as your dorne can take off then you should be OK flying in your backyard below the height of your house.

dronist Posted at 2018-3-22 18:17
As long as your dorne can take off then you should be OK flying in your backyard below the height of your house.

Thanks, that's what my common sense told me. It also told me I could probably go a bit above my house, but then I might be pushing it. I mean a plane isn't going to fly 100 feet over my house, at least I hope not! Thanks for your answer.

Or not? restricted airspace is one thing but a No Fly Zone is entirely another. I wouldn't risk it or tried it and would seek clarification from ATC who don't have a sense of humour when you violate their airspace. Phone them, they are approachable and generally very very helpful.

This is a question I've also wondered myself.  5 miles away from the airport, in your own backyard, it would have to be one super aggressive FAA agent to issue a fine. Problem is though, you will not be satisfied all the time with just flying 5-10 feet up. Sooner or later you're gonna look around and say, 'I don't see any planes coming. Maybe I can sneak up to 300 ft real quick!'

M2Wair Posted at 2018-3-22 18:21
Or not? restricted airspace is one thing but a No Fly Zone is entirely another. I wouldn't risk it and would seek clarification from ATC who don't have a sense of humour when you violate their airspace. Phone them, they are approachable and generally very very helpful.

You know, I'm going to try that! And then I'll report back on my experience. I haven't tried that before. I think there are some mobile apps that do this too, as opposed to using the phone. Wondering which works better?

Danger Lampost Posted at 2018-3-22 18:20
Thanks, that's what my common sense told me. It also told me I could probably go a bit above my house, but then I might be pushing it. I mean a plane isn't going to fly 100 feet over my house, at least I hope not! Thanks for your answer.

If you are on ABOVE .700 and you can take off then you are NOT in NO FLY ZONE. I hacked mine and am on.700 and that is the only way you can take off in a restricted, no fly zone but again ONLY if you are in your backyard otherwise a short drive out of the zone and you can safely enjoy your baby.

LARRY ANDREWS Posted at 2018-3-22 18:23
This is a question I've also wondered myself.  5 miles away from the airport, in your own backyard, it would have to be one super aggressive FAA agent to issue a fine. Problem is though, you will not be satisfied all the time with just flying 5-10 feet up. Sooner or later you're gonna look around and say, 'I don't see any planes coming. Maybe I can sneak up to 300 ft real quick!'

You are good as long as you don't get the itch and get higher

Our (U.S.) Judicial system needs to address this issue for several reasons.
1) You are on your own property. Your property could be as small as 60-foot x 80-foot or it could be a mile x a mile.  As a property owner you are supposed to own area above your property.  Based on old English precedence about property owner, owning area from Heaven to H.
2) FAA seems to think it owns all the Air (or area) above United States.  Even though Congress has not passed such legislation and there has not been a court case saying FAA does own air from just above 0-feet to space.
3) People's privacy have been violated by Bad drone owners or Paparazzi flying drones over private property.  People are getting fed-up, and it will only get worse.  With new drones coming out with possible full frame sensors and capable of using Telephoto (200 - 400mm) lens, abuse of people's privacy is real issue.
4) Commercial drone businesses are going to run into trouble when they start flying to close or over private property.

Strictly talking, the drone should never leave the ground under its own power; otherwise it would be flying in a NFZ or Restricted or whatever kind of airspace.

Of course you pose no hazard to any other aerial system in the area if you keep it, lets say below your roof; but strictly speaking you should not do it.

HedgeTrimmer Posted at 2018-3-22 19:21
Our (U.S.) Judicial system needs to address this issue for several reasons.
1) You are on your own property. Your property could be as small as 60-foot x 80-foot or it could be a mile x a mile.  As a property owner you are supposed to own area above your property.  Based on old English precedence about property owner, owning area from Heaven to H.
2) FAA seems to think it owns all the Air (or area) above United States.  Even though Congress has not passed such legislation and there has not been a court case saying FAA does own air from just above 0-feet to space.

I think you are incorrect about the law.  The FAA is the ONLY one who controls the airspace.  Think about it.  If you could own the air above your house all the way up to heaven, then you could call that airport tower and forbid them to direct planes to fly over your house.  Every house within a landing path would do that.  Air travel would end.  Now there is a disputed law that says property owners can control up to 350 feet over their house, but that is not firm at the present time.  

I'm a firm believer that in a built up area we should be able to fly, lower than any surrounding structure within a distance equivilant or less than that structures height. No closer than 30 mtrs to people.
That makes sense, because you are not going to have a manned aircraft anywhere near that, unless there was a h#ll of a problem happening.
But where my daydream comes to an end is if the AC has a 'flyaway' or decides to climb to RTH, or CEILING or beyond. Its just too much of a risk, close to a concentrated area of manned aircraft.

StanfordWebbie Posted at 2018-3-22 20:25
I think you are incorrect about the law.  The FAA is the ONLY one who controls the airspace.  Think about it.  If you could own the air above your house all the way up to heaven, then you could call that airport tower and forbid them to direct planes to fly over your house.  Every house within a landing path would do that.  Air travel would end.  Now there is a disputed law that says property owners can control up to 350 feet over their house, but that is not firm at the present time.

The issue is one of Government overreach or power grab.  FAA was only supposed to control Public Airspace, not Airspace over Private property.
(Similary to how E.P.A. decided it had authority over ponds, drainage ditches, and even water puddles on private property, they were big-dog let run loose.)

Various lawsuits have tossed the issue around, but as of yet nothing is set in stone.

The "navigable airspace" in which the public has a right of transit  without affecting a landowner's property rights has been set at the  height of 500 ft in urban or suburban areas,[5] and 360 feet above the surface or tallest structure in rural areas.[6]
(Those altitudes are cutoff points, as to when a property owner is not owed compensation for flying through what is airspace over private property.)

The exact altitude(s) at which the airspace over private land becomes  "public" airspace, or where the upward bounds of national sovereignty  extends is often debated, but the Supreme Court rulings and space  treaties are clear. A landowner's domain extends up to at least 365 feet  above the ground.
(Notice, SCOTUS has not yet ruled as to where a private property owners airspace actually ends.)

As I said, " Our (U.S.) Judicial system needs to address this issue for several reasons. "

This is old English precidence I mentioned about owning from Heaven to H.
Cuius est solum, eius est usque ad coelum et ad inferos (Latin for "whoever's is the soil, it is theirs all the way to Heaven and all the way to H")[1] is a principle of property law,  stating that property holders have rights not only to the plot of land  itself, but also to the air above and (in the broader formulation) the  ground below.

They actually have a regulation for that here in New Zealand, called “shielded” flying; if you are within 100m of a structure, you are allowed to fly, up to but not over the height of said structure. I know that probably doesn’t help OP, but I wonder if you have some kind of similar rule in the US perhaps?

Ugh, double post!

Face-AcheNZ Posted at 2018-3-22 22:46
Ugh, double post!

You too.  I was having problems posting in another thread.  Appeared as if post button was not working.
Well it was, three posts of same thing.
I did notice there was a JavaScript error message in Lower-Left corner of FireFox.

Happened again just now.  Forum did not update view to show this post has been made.

I think one of the issues might be fly aways.
If you fly at 10ft and your drone decides it is time to fly away to the sky, you are still responsible and violating the NFZ.
So, as long as you keep it on a string.....

I have been a licensed pilot in the US for almost 50 years. Whenever I flew, whether it was around the patch for touch and gos or a cross country flight that might have taken 45 minutes of planning to properly prepare. I always had the utmost confidence in the rules and regulations to insure the safety of me, my aircraft, my passengers as well as others flying around me. The regulations are a necessary "evil" (seemingly to others more than me) to maintain order and definition in the skies. I studied them, never once NOT believing in the reason why I should do this.  


Nearly 50 years, later, I am still talking about flying because of the safety in what I learned from following the rules and regulations that seem to be in the way of happiness for some, today.
I fly a Mavic Pro with goggles and enjoy myself almost as much as piloting an airplane. Thanks to those pesky rules and regulations of the power grabbing US government, yes, little Billy you can, too.

Make the best of it and you will see waaay more fun in your life.

Have good day and don't live peed off. It won't work out, for you.

HedgeTrimmer Posted at 2018-3-22 19:21
Our (U.S.) Judicial system needs to address this issue for several reasons.
1) You are on your own property. Your property could be as small as 60-foot x 80-foot or it could be a mile x a mile.  As a property owner you are supposed to own area above your property.  Based on old English precedence about property owner, owning area from Heaven to H.
2) FAA seems to think it owns all the Air (or area) above United States.  Even though Congress has not passed such legislation and there has not been a court case saying FAA does own air from just above 0-feet to space.

I believe you intended to suggest that our Legislative system address the issue.  Judicial has nothing to do with creating or initiating rules, ordinances, or laws.

DroneDriver Posted at 2018-3-23 05:01
I have been a licensed pilot in the US for almost 50 years. Whenever I flew, whether it was around the patch for touch and gos or a cross country flight that might have taken 45 minutes of planning to properly prepare. I always had the utmost confidence in the rules and regulations to insure the safety of me, my aircraft, my passengers as well as others flying around me. The regulations are a necessary "evil" (seemingly to others more than me) to maintain order and definition in the skies. I studied them, never once NOT believing in the reason why I should do this.  

They wouldn't let me say pizzed.

No, I'm affraid not. Even 5-10 inches off the ground is still a No-Fly-Zone. There are also weight rules for drones in the US. Even if the drone is under a certain weight, you still have to notify the authority that controls that airspace. I came across this before I wrote this to maybe help explain. The US has some serious rules for this type of question. Have a read through this - https://www.pocket-lint.com/dron ... flying-in-uk-and-us

CoreyB10 Posted at 2018-3-23 05:12
No, I'm affraid not. Even 5-10 inches off the ground is still a No-Fly-Zone. There are also weight rules for drones in the US. Even if the drone is under a certain weight, you still have to notify the authority that controls that airspace. I came across this before I wrote this to maybe help explain. The US has some serious rules for this type of question. Have a read through this - https://www.pocket-lint.com/drones/news/141667-drone-regulations-and-rules-the-drone-laws-you-need-to-know-before-flying-in-uk-and-us

Good article. thanks for the link.

I believe that If everyone, and I mean EVERYONE would only: fly safe, in other wards, do NOT endanger other people or property, respect other's privacy, respect nature, animals and wildlife, use common sense all the time, then we wouldn't need any of these rules or regulations.

The rules are made because of  the few people who believe that they are entitled to do what they want, when they want, without any regard for others, to protect use from them, but unfortunately those people seem to think that the rules don't apply to them.

Unfortunately the people who should be reading this thread, probably never come to this forum, nor read a news paper, that is, unless they are the one making the news.

WebParrot Posted at 2018-3-23 05:03
I believe you intended to suggest that our Legislative system address the issue.  Judicial has nothing to do with creating or initiating rules, ordinances, or laws.

Both actually.  I know Legislative branch creates the rules.  Although on occasion they exempt themselves from their own laws they force on us.

The reason I said Judiciary is due to inconsistency of previous court cases, and F.A.A.'s over-reach.  F.A.A. should not be allowed to willy-nilly pick altitude limits, nor encroach on private property owner's rights by claming control of anything above 0-feet.  

F.A.A. is essentially acting as if they are the Legislative branch (aka Congress), when they make up regulations that are enforced as Law.  Granted other agencies do same, with EPA being one of worst.

Most of us want to fly safely.  At same time, we don't want to be boxed-in to point that we can't fly our drones.  We are seeing more local ordinances that are far more restrictive than even F.A.A.'s mandates.  Nor do we as property owners want to loose control of airspace over our property.  We don't want peeking toms, we don't want media, we don't want to be harrassed or bothered.

After reading some of the replies here, I decided to call my local airport air traffic control center (Oakland, California) to get permission for a low altitude flight in the range of 10-20 feet, about 4 miles from the airport. The person who answered the call told me flat out, "I can't see how that would be a problem, you're Okay." He did not ask for a flight plan. He also gave me another number I could call handling all of Northern California (916-366-4019) for further confirmation, but I can not get a person at that number so could only leave a message.

So, having been told by a person on the phone at the actual air traffic control center of my local airport that I'm okay, and since that accords with my common sense, I'm going out flying! My only (very small) random worry is that I'll have a fly-away situation in just the wrong way and I'll be *that guy* on the news. But I can't imagine that happening at 10-20 feet in good conditions.

Anyone think I'm doing the wrong thing here? I'm trying to do it right.

CoreyB10 Posted at 2018-3-23 05:12
No, I'm affraid not. Even 5-10 inches off the ground is still a No-Fly-Zone. There are also weight rules for drones in the US. Even if the drone is under a certain weight, you still have to notify the authority that controls that airspace. I came across this before I wrote this to maybe help explain. The US has some serious rules for this type of question. Have a read through this - https://www.pocket-lint.com/drones/news/141667-drone-regulations-and-rules-the-drone-laws-you-need-to-know-before-flying-in-uk-and-us

Good info.

This excerpt points to the issue:
"According to the FAA, the US has the most complex airspace in the world. "

Ironic, being Land of Free has most complex airspace, or should it be said convuluted-regulated airspace.

Danger Lampost Posted at 2018-3-23 09:29
After reading some of the replies here, I decided to call my local airport air traffic control center (Oakland, California) to get permission for a low altitude flight in the range of 10-20 feet, about 4 miles from the airport. The person who answered the call told me flat out, "I can't see how that would be a problem, you're Okay." He did not ask for a flight plan. He also gave me another number I could call handling all of Northern California (916-366-4019) for further confirmation, but I can not get a person at that number so could only leave a message.

So, having been told by a person on the phone at the actual air traffic control center of my local airport that I'm okay, and since that accords with my common sense, I'm going out flying! My only (very small) random worry is that I'll have a fly-away situation in just the wrong way and I'll be *that guy* on the news. But I can't imagine that happening at 10-20 feet in good conditions.

I think everybody who is concerned about Safety, is concerned about possibility of Fly-Aways.

Only thing that can be done to lessen risk of Fly-away is to be in an area where low-flying aircraft should not be.  Lessening the chance of Fly-away and a plane intersecting.

Wonder if drone makers have considered adding remotely activated Self-Destruct systems?
(Said jokingly)

Oh, and Thumbs-Up for calling local airport!

M2Wair Posted at 2018-3-22 18:21
Or not? restricted airspace is one thing but a No Fly Zone is entirely another. I wouldn't risk it or tried it and would seek clarification from ATC who don't have a sense of humour when you violate their airspace. Phone them, they are approachable and generally very very helpful.

^^ ^^
What he said.

yes there's a different between restricted and no fly zones.  as a preflight and reasearch i use airmap.com.

in my experience, talking to ATC has been positive by the way.  Some even allow you to register flights online, very easy.

HedgeTrimmer Posted at 2018-3-23 09:46
I think everybody who is concerned about Safety, is concerned about possibility of Fly-Aways.

Only thing that can be done to lessen risk of Fly-away is to be in an area where low-flying aircraft should not be.  Lessening the chance of Fly-away and a plane intersecting.

Um, to my knowledge, there hasn't been any muslim drone makers..yet.

*Said jokingly *

I think your scenario will depend on how far you are from your neighbours and your relationship with them. If your neighbours are literally next door and you don't get on they may very well report you if they notice your drone. Other than that you do have to consider malfunctions and potential fly aways - whilst exceedingly rare they do happen.

Danger Lampost Posted at 2018-3-23 09:29
After reading some of the replies here, I decided to call my local airport air traffic control center (Oakland, California) to get permission for a low altitude flight in the range of 10-20 feet, about 4 miles from the airport. The person who answered the call told me flat out, "I can't see how that would be a problem, you're Okay." He did not ask for a flight plan. He also gave me another number I could call handling all of Northern California (916-366-4019) for further confirmation, but I can not get a person at that number so could only leave a message.

So, having been told by a person on the phone at the actual air traffic control center of my local airport that I'm okay, and since that accords with my common sense, I'm going out flying! My only (very small) random worry is that I'll have a fly-away situation in just the wrong way and I'll be *that guy* on the news. But I can't imagine that happening at 10-20 feet in good conditions.

Kudos to you and nice to see someone who is conscious enough to do things right. Asked the question, got a few answers and then did the right thing instead of pleasing himself.

Acenspades Posted at 2018-3-23 09:57
Um, to my knowledge, there hasn't been any muslim drone makers..yet.

*Said jokingly *

What about WHITE TRASH  drone makers?

or

What about WHITE SUPREMACISTS drone makers?

or

What about WHITE HYPOCRITE EVANGELIST drone makers?

* Said jokingly *

HedgeTrimmer Posted at 2018-3-23 09:27
Both actually.  I know Legislative branch creates the rules.  Although on occasion they exempt themselves from their own laws they force on us.

The reason I said Judiciary is due to inconsistency of previous court cases, and F.A.A.'s over-reach.  F.A.A. should not be allowed to willy-nilly pick altitude limits, nor encroach on private property owner's rights by claming control of anything above 0-feet.  

Actually they can claim the air at 89' above your property!  

StanfordWebbie Posted at 2018-3-22 20:25
I think you are incorrect about the law.  The FAA is the ONLY one who controls the airspace.  Think about it.  If you could own the air above your house all the way up to heaven, then you could call that airport tower and forbid them to direct planes to fly over your house.  Every house within a landing path would do that.  Air travel would end.  Now there is a disputed law that says property owners can control up to 350 feet over their house, but that is not firm at the present time.

It is around 83'
Before the advent of air travel, landowners owned an infinitely tall column of air rising above their plot. (The Latin doctrine was Cujus est solum ejus usque ad coelum, or “whose is the soil, his it is up to the sky.”) In 1946 the Supreme Court acknowledged that the air had become a “public highway,” but a landowner still had dominion over “at least as much of the space above the ground as he can occupy or use in connection with the land.”

Since most municipalities have ordinances on how high of a structure (private home, warehouses etc.) some one can built it is safe to say 83' unless it is in big cities where the zoning can allow you to built high rises.

A CW Posted at 2018-3-23 10:00
I think your scenario will depend on how far you are from your neighbours and your relationship with them. If your neighbours are literally next door and you don't get on they may very well report you if they notice your drone. Other than that you do have to consider malfunctions and potential fly aways - whilst exceedingly rare they do happen.

I brought my neighbors over when I bought the drone. They thought it was cool ! I showed them what it was capable of, what the camera could record, max digital zoom (2x) at 100', 200', 400'. They all said wow!! The stupid news people would have you believe these can see through lead doors from a mile away.

I said at any distance of 100' even at 20' in the air, it won't see through blinds, drapes, curtains, or even screens... at least not enough detail to ever be concerned about.

I fly about 20' above their property in the front yard, or I just practice really low in my yard which is a good .4 acre. Trying to stay clear of hawks around here. They've followed and made an attack move on the MP once too many. Curious, or looking for a meal IDK, but their talons or wings could get badly sliced by these props..  I've seen other drones do some bird damage when they get hit. Of course if the blades break it's over for the AC. Few more weeks and those fledged hawks will migrate.

One of my neighbors is buying a new Mavic Pro soon. He loves mine. He's flown a few times.

get your neighbors involved. Saves a ton of headaches.

We've flown in our group next to NASA here and the airport. Tower guys say keep them under 50' there and never in the LZ or flight paths. The field there is about .75 mile from the closest runway. Jets look humongous when they fly in.

yes the drones can fly away, but they have more problems with Canadian Geese which weigh more and are bigger than our consumer drones. ATC guy that sometimes is in our group says the damn birds are more of a threat, and those birds don't care. Hundreds of those, Red Tail hawks and others like crows and pigeons are all around.

miketmtpro Posted at 2018-3-26 21:15
I brought my neighbors over when I bought the drone. They thought it was cool ! I showed them what it was capable of, what the camera could record, max digital zoom (2x) at 100', 200', 400'. They all said wow!! The stupid news people would have you believe these can see through lead doors from a mile away.

I said at any distance of 100' even at 20' in the air, it won't see through blinds, drapes, curtains, or even screens... at least not enough detail to ever be concerned about.

In that case go for it

I'm not sure why no one has brought up Hobby vs Commercial Drone use.

For hobby use, inside 5 mile radius of an airport, in Class D airspace you "should be calling" the ATC to let them know you are flying over your property, or in a nearby park. This allows them to notify manned AC that there is drone activity in an area at an approx altitude.  Look up sUAS Facility Maps.  These are used by Commercial Drone Pilots who have Waivers and or FAA Authorizations on file ( ATC has this online in their system)

If you call ATC to ask for, or let them know you will be flying in NAS.....record on paper your call time and date, to include the number called....this is if you don't get an answer, and you can prove you attempted to contact.  Record the info anyway even if you make contact.

Airmap

B4Ufly

Are both apps that can help give you information.  also UAV Forecast is great for providing weather and KP Index for GPS......4 and over I don't fly.

There is much more to know, such as Class B airspace and distances.....but I could spend all day here.  These are general guidelines for Hobby Fliers...Have fun, and stay safe!!

HedgeTrimmer Posted at 2018-3-22 19:21
Our (U.S.) Judicial system needs to address this issue for several reasons.
1) You are on your own property. Your property could be as small as 60-foot x 80-foot or it could be a mile x a mile.  As a property owner you are supposed to own area above your property.  Based on old English precedence about property owner, owning area from Heaven to H.
2) FAA seems to think it owns all the Air (or area) above United States.  Even though Congress has not passed such legislation and there has not been a court case saying FAA does own air from just above 0-feet to space.

All operators should be following this case to understand the unfolding and ever increasing risks associated with recreational operation... Title-Banned from Drones
youtu.be/VYN1O2zBUBE

All operators should be following this case to understand the unfolding and ever increasing risks associated with recreational operation... Title-Banned from Drones
youtu.be/VYN1O2zBUBE

djiuser_bxyv3iOmKg82 Posted at 8-29 06:12
All operators should be following this case to understand the unfolding and ever increasing risks associated with recreational operation... Title-Banned from Drones
youtu.be/VYN1O2zBUBE

There you go... Hence why I emphasised the need to gain your neighbours permission just as much as any airport...