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Signal Loss Well Short of Specifications
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CharlesWhiteman
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I am noticing signal loss, triggering RTH, well short of expectations.  Here are a couple links that illustrate the problem and in both these examples controller was custom set to 5.8GHz

Signal loss Example (1)

Signal Loss Example (2)


When flying, the controller's antenna are vertical and the controller is oriantated towards the drone.

2018-4-23
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Mark The Droner
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What were your expectations?

Are you sure you're aiming your controller correctly?  Do you feel you flew under ideal conditions in an ideal environment?

Maybe this thread will help...

https://forum.dji.com/thread-142385-1-1.html
2018-4-23
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Rodger8
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You have less range at 5.8 and you state Custom meaning you chose a channel to operate on? That channel may have been influenced by interference and initiated the RTH.
2018-4-23
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CharlesWhiteman
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Mark The Droner Posted at 2018-4-23 01:41
What were your expectations?

Are you sure you're aiming your controller correctly?  Do you feel you flew under ideal conditions in an ideal environment?

I have hundreds of hours flying DJI, so yes I am familiar with controllers and flying conditions.
2018-4-24
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Rodger8
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CharlesWhiteman Posted at 2018-4-24 02:15
I have hundreds of hours flying DJI, so yes I am familiar with controllers and flying conditions.

Do you sync your flight records with DJI?
2018-4-24
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DJI Elektra
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CharlesWhiteman Posted at 2018-4-24 02:15
I have hundreds of hours flying DJI, so yes I am familiar with controllers and flying conditions.

Charles, what is the model of your drone? Did you attach anything on the top of the drone? If you ensure that the signal loss was not caused by environment, please provide us the screenshot of the image transmission.
2018-4-28
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Bashy
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Its the p4p Elektra..

You are in the UK, that is governed by CE regs, therefore the controller is in CE mode, you are also flying around docks, i bet theres lots of interference there, be mindful of metal in that concrete, just saying......

Your April flight, that looks about right for cloudy conditions as per your weather forecast that day at 2km, the  p4p max is 3.5km in ideal and probably near on impossible conditions

I should add that my p4p would max in open fields, with no buildings or trees etc at 4000m in FC mode and 2600m in CE mode during the Winter/Spring, not tried during warmer days as yet, also, any cloud cover will diminish this distance for me, so max of about 1000m or so in CE mode depending on the type of cloud etc

So many factors go into what reach a radio signal has......
2018-4-28
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Labroides
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Bashy Posted at 2018-4-28 19:55
Its the p4p Elektra..

You are in the UK, that is governed by CE regs, therefore the controller is in CE mode, you are also flying around docks, i bet theres lots of interference there, be mindful of metal in that concrete, just saying......

So many factors go into what reach a radio signal has......
That's true, but cloud cover and steel reinforcing aren't going to have any effect on interference,  radio transmission or how far you can maintain signal.
2018-4-28
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Bashy
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I must reply...

My part quote "be mindful of metal in that concrete, just saying" was just a warning re compass, i could have gone into more detail i suppose, but it was about 4/5am was still asleep

Whenever i fly under cloud cover my range is drastically  reduced by at least 1000m, i suspect this could be due to the moisture in the air, seen as water vapour impacts the propagation of the signal this would make sense

Also, i didnt say cloud is a casue of interference, i said around the docks, my part quote was " you are also flying around docks, i bet theres lots of interference there" then i started a new paragraph and went on to mention cloud etc...
2018-4-28
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Aerial-Image
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Bashy your totally correct moisture will affect the total range.... flying at the same spot in winter on a typical UK cloudy day compared to a hot dry sunny clear day I get a difference with total range, plus I prefer 2.4 for long range. - Just try flying behind a close tree in winter compared to summer the signal goes down on the meters bar
2018-4-29
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Bashy
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Cheers chap, i use 2.4 for range, actually,  im rarely off 2.4 because where i fly the only interference would be the Egrets lol
2018-4-29
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CharlesWhiteman
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Rodger8 Posted at 2018-4-24 03:16
Do you sync your flight records with DJI?

yes I do, all my flights.
2018-4-29
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CharlesWhiteman
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DJI Elektra Posted at 2018-4-28 19:02
Charles, what is the model of your drone? Did you attach anything on the top of the drone? If you ensure that the signal loss was not caused by environment, please provide us the screenshot of the image transmission.

P4 Pro - as per the thread title. No I don't stick things to the drone.
2018-4-29
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CharlesWhiteman
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DJI Elektra Posted at 2018-4-28 19:02
Charles, what is the model of your drone? Did you attach anything on the top of the drone? If you ensure that the signal loss was not caused by environment, please provide us the screenshot of the image transmission.

I would love to send you a screenshot - Sadly the PRO+ doesn't allow me to install 3rd party software - such as screen recording.
2018-4-29
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Bashy
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CharlesWhiteman Posted at 2018-4-29 01:05
I would love to send you a screenshot - Sadly the PRO+ doesn't allow me to install 3rd party software - such as screen recording.

I believe it does now..... but im not sure how you can record what you cannot do, if that makes sense.

But i do think my answer should cover you issues, as a control, try it again on a nice clear day with little wind gusts less the 20mph, either out to sea or over the flattest land you can find with nothing in the way such as woods and buildings etc, also get a Parabolic booster, only a few quid on ebay, but dont go for the cheapest, sommat like this, actually, im gonna try this one too try with it and try without it.....
2018-4-29
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DJI Elektra
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CharlesWhiteman Posted at 2018-4-29 01:04
P4 Pro - as per the thread title. No I don't stick things to the drone.

Thanks for your update. Or you can take a picture of it. It will be helpful if you export the flight data and the black box for analysis. You can upload it to dropbox and post the link here. Thanks for your support.

2018-4-29
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Rodger8
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Interesting, you must Hover most of the time.
2018-4-29
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KedDK
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CharlesWhiteman Posted at 2018-4-29 01:05
I would love to send you a screenshot - Sadly the PRO+ doesn't allow me to install 3rd party software - such as screen recording.

A screenshot of the transmission page should be no problem, just drag down from top when in the settings page and tap the screen looking icon.
The hassle is to get it off the RC as you need to connect RC to computer, active and confirm the USB connection again by dragging down from top. When active you should get like a USB drive on computer from where you can copy the screenshot from the folder named so.

As Bashy say, you also can install a screen recorder now if you have the latest updates.
2018-4-29
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CharlesWhiteman
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DJI Elektra Posted at 2018-4-29 03:33
Thanks for your update. Or you can take a picture of it. It will be helpful if you export the flight data and the black box for analysis. You can upload it to dropbox and post the link here. Thanks for your support.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMb1RD5pPOg

Yes I can take a picture of it, Just as it loses signal I'll put the controller down and turn away to get my phone completely taking my eyes off operating the drone.  That's really good advice thank you!!  

Clearly there is a technical issue here.  Numbers of users are reporting the same issue and we're being fobbed off by DJI with such excuses and reasons (despite the links to the actual evidence) so as to lead me to think that you must believe I am stupid and retarded.

Having flown my P3 Advanced before, in the same area's and over the same conditions and distances, and having helped build a wireless internet service over a wide area also have some understanding of environmental conditions, signals, and networking.

P3A Very Similar Flight Example No Issues

The P4P+ is sub-standard to the P3A in its ability to maintain signal between controller and drone.

A 5.8GHz signal is perfectly capable of maintaining a strong signal over 12 miles using an inexpensive router to support bandwidth of 150mbps within CE limitations. (AirMax)
2018-4-29
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CharlesWhiteman
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KedDK Posted at 2018-4-29 11:51
A screenshot of the transmission page should be no problem, just drag down from top when in the settings page and tap the screen looking icon.
The hassle is to get it off the RC as you need to connect RC to computer, active and confirm the USB connection again by dragging down from top. When active you should get like a USB drive on computer from where you can copy the screenshot from the folder named so.

I find the text size on the P4P+ a bit of an issue.  I'll have a practice of your solution, but it would be handy if the text size was BIGGER!
2018-4-29
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KedDK
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CharlesWhiteman Posted at 2018-4-29 13:06
I find the text size on the P4P+ a bit of an issue.  I'll have a practice of your solution, but it would be handy if the text size was BIGGER!

Sorry i can't provide a screenshot of the screenshot option there has been present all the time even without third party apps, but it really is easy when found in the drag down.

Guess all Elektra is asking is a screenshot looking somewhere like this taken with also the AC powered on.

transmission settings

transmission settings

Not sure how it would be helpfull but better to provide what they're asking

This show some of the files system on the +RC when connected as USB device

+RC filesystem

+RC filesystem

Best of luck to you, i almost have given up make them understand something is wrong with the range within the CE region after last summers FW updates.

2018-4-29
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CharlesWhiteman
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DJI Elektra Posted at 2018-4-29 03:33
Thanks for your update. Or you can take a picture of it. It will be helpful if you export the flight data and the black box for analysis. You can upload it to dropbox and post the link here. Thanks for your support.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMb1RD5pPOg

Here's a couple, I think at least one relavent

DAT Files
2018-4-29
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Bashy
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CharlesWhiteman Posted at 2018-4-29 13:03
Yes I can take a picture of it, Just as it loses signal I'll put the controller down and turn away to get my phone completely taking my eyes off operating the drone.  That's really good advice thank you!!  

Clearly there is a technical issue here.  Numbers of users are reporting the same issue and we're being fobbed off by DJI with such excuses and reasons (despite the links to the actual evidence) so as to lead me to think that you must believe I am stupid and retarded.

A 5.8GHz signal is perfectly capable of maintaining a strong signal over 12 miles using an inexpensive router to support bandwidth of 150mbps within CE limitations. (AirMax)

The power output to achieve that must be far greater than the 0.4w of the p4p controller

The main issue we have is the video, its that that loses connection, not the radio tc that controls the drone, that exceeds the video

I have a 2.4/5.8ghz router and i can assure you that that will not tramsit anywhere near 12km let alone 12 miles, 5.8 on my router is not used, it struggles just a room away, 2.4 reaches about 30m (1 signal) and thats through 2 walls and a conservatory, 5.8 bombs out in the next room and certainly struggles big time at the back door
2018-4-30
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Geebax
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CharlesWhiteman Posted at 2018-4-29 13:03
Yes I can take a picture of it, Just as it loses signal I'll put the controller down and turn away to get my phone completely taking my eyes off operating the drone.  That's really good advice thank you!!  

Clearly there is a technical issue here.  Numbers of users are reporting the same issue and we're being fobbed off by DJI with such excuses and reasons (despite the links to the actual evidence) so as to lead me to think that you must believe I am stupid and retarded.

A 5.8GHz signal is perfectly capable of maintaining a strong signal over 12 miles using an inexpensive router to support bandwidth of 150mbps within CE limitations. (AirMax)

If you are going to quote Ubiquiti's Airmax systems, then you might at least acknowledge that in most cases they use parabolic antennas to achieve long distances. They actually use far greater power than the Phantom does, 28 dbm as against the Phantom's 14 dbm. And the Airmax is not usually bobbing around in the sky, but fixed to a tower or building with line of sight to the other end.
2018-4-30
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Bashy
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Geebax Posted at 2018-4-30 22:16
A 5.8GHz signal is perfectly capable of maintaining a strong signal over 12 miles using an inexpensive router to support bandwidth of 150mbps within CE limitations. (AirMax)

If you are going to quote Ubiquiti's Airmax systems, then you might at least acknowledge that in most cases they use parabolic antennas to achieve long distances. They actually use far greater power than the Phantom does, 28 dbm as against the Phantom's 14 dbm. And the Airmax is not usually bobbing around in the sky, but fixed to a tower or building with line of sight to the other end.

Thats what i thought, commons sense dictated it, i had no knowledge of it lol
2018-4-30
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DJI Elektra
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CharlesWhiteman Posted at 2018-4-29 14:56
Here's a couple, I think at least one relavent

DAT Files

Charles, thanks for your update. I would help you forward it.
2018-5-5
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Eric13
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Bashy Posted at 2018-4-30 21:28
A 5.8GHz signal is perfectly capable of maintaining a strong signal over 12 miles using an inexpensive router to support bandwidth of 150mbps within CE limitations. (AirMax)

The power output to achieve that must be far greater than the 0.4w of the p4p controller

The main issue we have is the video, its that that loses connection, not the radio tc that controls the drone, that exceeds the video

That's interesting, I always wondered about the two different signal strenghts Video vs RC.
Aren't they both communicating via Wifi? Maybe even the same channels?
2018-5-5
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Bashy
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Not quite sure to be honest, prob is the same, at the top of DJI Go app screen are 2 signal strength meters, one for the HD (video quality strength) and one for the Radio between drone and RC, the 1st to falter is always the HD signal, so i think that video being tansmitted can only go so far compared to radio transmission, take TV masts i bet they are much more powerful than radio masts, thats a guess mind lol
2018-5-5
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Geebax
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Bashy Posted at 2018-5-5 19:38
Not quite sure to be honest, prob is the same, at the top of DJI Go app screen are 2 signal strength meters, one for the HD (video quality strength) and one for the Radio between drone and RC, the 1st to falter is always the HD signal, so i think that video being tansmitted can only go so far compared to radio transmission, take TV masts i bet they are much more powerful than radio masts, thats a guess mind lol

TV / Radio, same thing, they are both sent as radio signals. The difference is that video is a greater bandwidth signal, which requires more power for successful transmission, and also video signals are sent with a lot of digital signal correction built in. They tend to work quite well up to a point, then the number of errors gets beyond the capability of the transmission system to correct them, and it then falls in a pile of poo. This is known as the cliff effect, it is as if the signal just fell off a cliff.
2018-5-5
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Bashy
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Geebax Posted at 2018-5-5 19:50
TV / Radio, same thing, they are both sent as radio signals. The difference is that video is a greater bandwidth signal, which requires more power for successful transmission, and also video signals are sent with a lot of digital signal correction built in. They tend to work quite well up to a point, then the number of errors gets beyond the capability of the transmission system to correct them, and it then falls in a pile of poo. This is known as the cliff effect, it is as if the signal just fell off a cliff.

Thanks for the explanation Geebax
2018-5-5
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Geebax
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Bashy Posted at 2018-5-5 20:08
Thanks for the explanation Geebax

Oh, I forgot to mention, the HD video return signal is not WiFi, of the current Phantoms only the P3 SE uses WiFi, it is a specialsed transmission system, which may be proprietary in nature, Lightbridge was the earlier one followed by Occusync.
2018-5-5
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KedDK
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Bashy Posted at 2018-5-5 19:38
Not quite sure to be honest, prob is the same, at the top of DJI Go app screen are 2 signal strength meters, one for the HD (video quality strength) and one for the Radio between drone and RC, the 1st to falter is always the HD signal, so i think that video being tansmitted can only go so far compared to radio transmission, take TV masts i bet they are much more powerful than radio masts, thats a guess mind lol

"1st to falter is always the HD signal"
Sorry to correct you, often but not always ... Here are screenshot from last summer where i was quick enough to have it grabbed. Also notice that strength is reported being full.

Aircraft disconnected within 240 meters

Aircraft disconnected within 240 meters

I also experience that some days are better than other but i can't see the pattern of being related to cloudy/moisty days, i actually had a vey good range (impressive 800m !) one day with dark clouds and snow started falling during the flight.
One thing is sure, now the juice is back in the trees just a branch in the way can make the video flicker even at short distance.
2018-5-5
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Geebax
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KedDK Posted at 2018-5-5 21:25
"1st to falter is always the HD signal"
Sorry to correct you, often but not always ... Here are screenshot from last summer where i was quick enough to have it grabbed. Also notice that strength is reported being full.
[view_image]

It is good to keep in mind, that the strength of the radio signal is not always the reason for loss of signal. And the other question is whether the signal strength being reported on the screen is that being received by the aircraft or by the RC unit. My guess is that it is the aircraft received signal, and the return signal is not being reported. Therefore the RC unit may not be able to receive a signal even though the aircraft is reporting 5 bars.
2018-5-5
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KedDK
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Geebax Posted at 2018-5-5 21:53
It is good to keep in mind, that the strength of the radio signal is not always the reason for loss of signal. And the other question is whether the signal strength being reported on the screen is that being received by the aircraft or by the RC unit. My guess is that it is the aircraft received signal, and the return signal is not being reported. Therefore the RC unit may not be able to receive a signal even though the aircraft is reporting 5 bars.

Thank you, never thought of it that way, as being a linked connection i would expect it being the link strength, but you're possibly right it just show how it see the signal from one point. I must admit that i only rarely is looking closer on the bars, i have other things to concentrate on when the signals drop out.

I just have so many problems with distance, often it is as mentioned "just" the videofeed but also disconnects that would end up in a RTH if it don't manage to reconnect timely, often it start struggle within 3-500 meters. Most flights done over the fields surrounding my home and with nothing to interrupt, as showed in #21 clear bands here.

It all started with one of the updates during last summer, i don't think it was the AC 4.602 but more likely one of the updates for the RC not included in the release notes and i can only from what we know has been going on think of three reasons it has become this way, 1: radio power lowered to avoid stories of the extreme distance flights, 2: added RC support for the whole P4 series or 3: UUID system implementation, perhaps some initial tests implemented back then.

What ever the reason might be, i as OP experience a range far from expected, in fact 1/10th of it, not that i have any plans for flying 3500m away but i would like to have a solid link on the distance i do fly.
2018-5-5
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CharlesWhiteman
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Geebax Posted at 2018-4-30 22:16
A 5.8GHz signal is perfectly capable of maintaining a strong signal over 12 miles using an inexpensive router to support bandwidth of 150mbps within CE limitations. (AirMax)

If you are going to quote Ubiquiti's Airmax systems, then you might at least acknowledge that in most cases they use parabolic antennas to achieve long distances. They actually use far greater power than the Phantom does, 28 dbm as against the Phantom's 14 dbm. And the Airmax is not usually bobbing around in the sky, but fixed to a tower or building with line of sight to the other end.

Well this forum and the support from DJI is Shiite! What a load of bollocks! I've raised lots of questions via the forum, as have lots of other people, and not one question has EVER been resolved satisfactorily.  DJI - HANG YOUR HEAD IN IN SHAME. Useless ****
2018-5-12
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CharlesWhiteman
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Geebax Posted at 2018-5-5 19:50
TV / Radio, same thing, they are both sent as radio signals. The difference is that video is a greater bandwidth signal, which requires more power for successful transmission, and also video signals are sent with a lot of digital signal correction built in. They tend to work quite well up to a point, then the number of errors gets beyond the capability of the transmission system to correct them, and it then falls in a pile of poo. This is known as the cliff effect, it is as if the signal just fell off a cliff.

what a load of crappy bollocks - the Phantom 3 Advanced was much better, didn't suffer the same problem and the answer is wordy wordy try to sound goody
2018-5-12
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Geebax
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CharlesWhiteman Posted at 2018-5-12 12:42
what a load of crappy bollocks - the Phantom 3 Advanced was much better, didn't suffer the same problem and the answer is wordy wordy try to sound goody

Sad, my second pommy d*ckhead for the day. The answer I gave provides some enlightenment, but I doubt you have the mental capacity to understand it.
2018-5-12
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ALABAMA
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Geebax Posted at 2018-5-12 14:51
Sad, my second pommy d*ckhead for the day. The answer I gave provides some enlightenment, but I doubt you have the mental capacity to understand it.

LOL Geebax!  You do have a knack for good responses.  I get tickled at ya.
2018-5-12
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CharlesWhiteman
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ALABAMA Posted at 2018-5-12 16:01
LOL Geebax!  You do have a knack for good responses.  I get tickled at ya.

doesn't answer the question though. was he even trying??
2018-5-15
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CharlesWhiteman
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AND I'm NOT THE ONLY ONE!

*** signal loss 100 meters away from controller ***
2018-5-15
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