As I've mentioned, my wife is traveling abroad next week with her new P4P 2.0.

I purchased a hard shell backpack that has a tough foam interior with cutouts for drone, batteries, prop storage and tablet storage. The batteries are securely held in foam.

Is it necessary to purchase LiPo battery bags in this case? I haven't done so, because the batteries would no longer fit in the hardshell backpack as the foam snuggly fits the batteries in place.

I will be discharging batteries to 30% before she heads to the airport, as according to numerous discussions about it, LiPo batteries are less unstable at 30-50% charge and with the cabin pressure changes, I do not want to take chances. All three batteries have seen at least a dozen flights/charge cycles and have exhibited no abnormalities so far.

She will be headed to Cebu, Philippines, via Japan, on Japan Airlines.

Most airlines require the battery contacts to be covered (even tape is sufficient) and for the batteries to be packed in the carry-on bag. You should check with the airlines your wife is using to make sure they don't require anything else.

Hi. Thank you for the inquiry. Your airline's website will probably have a more detailed section on lithium batteries listed under dangerous goods and how to travel with them. Have a safe and happy trip.

msinger Posted at 2018-7-30 09:58
Most airlines require the battery contacts to be covered (even tape is sufficient) and for the batteries to be packed in the carry-on bag. You should check with the airlines your wife is using to make sure they don't require anything else.

Not trying to be argumentative but.... no they don't.

Flying with LiPo packs is really quite easy.

Last week I flew with 3 packs for a Splash 3, and 2 Phantom 4 packs just tossed in a backpack.
TSA never even opened it this time.

TSA and the airlines require that the contacts cannot be easily shorted.
This means no bare wires.
The plugs on the P4 packs cannot be easily shorted.

Although they may not ask for lipos to be stored in a lipo safe bag I would strongly recommend doing so anyway, for everyone’s safety.

Is it necessary to purchase LiPo battery bags in this case?
No airline in the world asks for Lipo bags - only folks on forums.

I will be discharging batteries to 30% before she heads to the airport, as according to numerous discussions about it, LiPo batteries are less unstable at 30-50% charge and with the cabin pressure changes, I do not want to take chances.
Likewise
No airline in the world asks for people traveling with their batteries to discharge them at all - only folks spreading myths on forums.
No-one has ever been pulled up by airport check-in security people and asked to demonstrate the state of discharge of their batteries either.
If it was a thing, they would have to ask everyone traveling with a laptop, iPad, camera etc to discharge their lipo batteries and there are a lot more of those than drone travelers.

aldrichg9 Posted at 2018-7-30 12:37
Not trying to be argumentative but.... no they don't.

Flying with LiPo packs is really quite easy.

They don't what?

It sounds like you're agreeing with me ;)

DJI Stephen Posted at 2018-7-30 11:46
Hi. Thank you for the inquiry. Your airline's website will probably have a more detailed section on lithium batteries listed under dangerous goods and how to travel with them. Have a safe and happy trip.

I checked Japan Airlines' website and they have no  mention at all of LiPo batteries, only Lion batteries and it doesn't say anything about taping over or bagging. Just says what limits in Wh and quantity you can take on board.

Hi. Thank you for that additional information. You can also take into consideration calling the airline's customer service number as well for instructions on how to properly pack those DJI Batteries.

Labroides Posted at 2018-7-30 13:29
Is it necessary to purchase LiPo battery bags in this case?
No airline in the world asks for Lipo bags - only folks on forums.

This is one of  several sites that recommend discharging LiPo batteries before airline flight.

My concern is cabin pressure changes could stress the batteries and result in a short or other condition not normally encountered near sea level.

"All it takes is an internal short circuit to set the battery off. There is no way to predict when it will happen. It does tend to happen more often when batteries are fully charged, being overcharged, or while being discharged, but it can happen to any LiPo at any time. "

From https://thedronegirl.com/2015/02/07/lipo-battery/

Mark Weiss Posted at 2018-7-30 13:50
This is one of  several sites that recommend discharging LiPo batteries before airline flight.

My concern is cabin pressure changes could stress the batteries and result in a short or other condition not normally encountered near sea level.

I checked Japan Airlines' website and they have no  mention at all of LiPo batteries, only Lion batteries
A Lithium polymer battery is a type of Lithium ion battery.
This is one of  several sites that recommend discharging LiPo batteries before airline flight.
I read it three times and see no reference to discharging before flight.
The discharge to travel myth is very common on drone forums but no airline in the world asks for it and no airport security ceeck has ever asked about it.


My concern is cabin pressure changes could stress the batteries and result in a short or other condition not normally encountered near sea level.
But it won't.  Cabin pressure cabin is typically equivalent to the outside air pressure at 1800–2400 m (6000–8000 feet) above sea level.
It's not going to stress your batteries.
If it would, you'd see a lot of warnings from the airlines.

Labroides Posted at 2018-7-30 15:17
I checked Japan Airlines' website and they have no  mention at all of LiPo batteries, only Lion batteries
A Lithium polymer battery is a type of Lithium ion battery.
This is one of  several sites that recommend discharging LiPo batteries before airline flight.

Usually, airlines would make a distinction. I know that LiPo are considered more dangerous than Lion batteries, because of the higher energy density. LiPo batteries have no hard shells like Lion batteries. The chemistry may be the same, but the energy density is higher.

Have you ever had a tube of toothpaste explode in your checked baggage? The first time I flew, I had that happen and that's why I put wet items in Ziplock bags. But for LiPo batts that isn't going to stop a fire.

Presumably, if the pressure change is very slow over several tens of minutes, or even hours, the batteries likely are in no danger whatsoever. But airliner decent happens pretty fast, enough to give severe ear pain to many travelers, and that's where I have my concerns about an ever so slight increase in stress on batteries.

The information about airlines and TSA not caring about state of charge on batteries is useful to know, regardless. I just have to decide whether to send her to the airport with full or half charged flight batteries.

Mark Weiss Posted at 2018-7-30 16:36
Usually, airlines would make a distinction. I know that LiPo are considered more dangerous than Lion batteries, because of the higher energy density. LiPo batteries have no hard shells like Lion batteries. The chemistry may be the same, but the energy density is higher.

Have you ever had a tube of toothpaste explode in your checked baggage? The first time I flew, I had that happen and that's why I put wet items in Ziplock bags. But for LiPo batts that isn't going to stop a fire.

Think about how many people on every plane have a mobile phone, a laptop or an iPad.
They all have Lipo batteries.
The number of drone batteries on planes is nothing by comparison.
The only people caring about the state of charge are forum myth spreaders.

Mark Weiss Posted at 2018-7-30 16:36
Usually, airlines would make a distinction. I know that LiPo are considered more dangerous than Lion batteries, because of the higher energy density. LiPo batteries have no hard shells like Lion batteries. The chemistry may be the same, but the energy density is higher.

Have you ever had a tube of toothpaste explode in your checked baggage? The first time I flew, I had that happen and that's why I put wet items in Ziplock bags. But for LiPo batts that isn't going to stop a fire.

Try Googling "battery explodes on airliner". All I got was one hit. As far as I can tell, there has never been a case of a DJI flight battery exploding, catching fire or anything else. And the state of charge has nothing to do with it either, nor does pressure.

The reason they make you put the flight batteries in the cabin is because there is always someone to deal with anything that goes wrong, while in the hold there is not. Of course no-one ever thinks about the LiPo battery in the RC unit, stored in the hold.

Geebax Posted at 2018-7-30 18:35
Try Googling "battery explodes on airliner". All I got was one hit. As far as I can tell, there has never been a case of a DJI flight battery exploding, catching fire or anything else. And the state of charge has nothing to do with it either, nor does pressure.

The reason they make you put the flight batteries in the cabin is because there is always someone to deal with anything that goes wrong, while in the hold there is not. Of course no-one ever thinks about the LiPo battery in the RC unit, stored in the hold.

A search for that turned up a handful of articles.

http://abc7news.com/travel/batte ... in-the-sky/3020423/

The above points to a couple incidents.

I'm very curious to know what went wrong with the battery. Perhaps the laptop was on and, lacking ventilation in the backpack, overheated.

I've never heard of laptop batteries being referred to as LiPo. I recently had to explore changing a battery on a Sonos device, and it had a pouch-style battery in it. I suspect that was LiPo.

So I gather the consensus is that it doesn't matter what the state of charge the battery is in before getting on board a jetliner.

Mark Weiss Posted at 2018-7-30 18:57
A search for that turned up a handful of articles.

http://abc7news.com/travel/batte ... in-the-sky/3020423/

Normally problems are a result of physical damage, otherwise it is normally phones which often have as much power as possible packed into the tiniest space possible and which take safety too close to the limit.

Although an intelligent Phantom battery is safer than most, it would be best to have it at no more than 50% charge.  At 100% charge, changes in pressure will cause it more stress, and there is the possibility of it self discharging when it has inadequate ventilation, also if something does go wrong then 100% is a lot of energy which could quite easily cause a nasty fire.  Also low charge causes more stress so although there is less energy available to cause trouble, probably best to keep it with 2 lights on the charge indicator.

Same for the remote control battery, and the tablet/phone.

Geebax Posted at 2018-7-30 18:35
Try Googling "battery explodes on airliner". All I got was one hit. As far as I can tell, there has never been a case of a DJI flight battery exploding, catching fire or anything else. And the state of charge has nothing to do with it either, nor does pressure.

The reason they make you put the flight batteries in the cabin is because there is always someone to deal with anything that goes wrong, while in the hold there is not. Of course no-one ever thinks about the LiPo battery in the RC unit, stored in the hold.

I did a somewhat different but possibly more precise search.  http://avherald.com/h?search_ter ... .x=0&search.y=0

I'm in agreement about the 50% charge aspect. It's less energy to dissipate if something DOES go wrong, and it's not so low as to damage the battery. Apparently both extremes of charge can be stressful to the battery.

I was not fully aware that phones and tablets have LiPo batteries in them. I thought that was strictly for high demand applications where weight was critical, as in flight batteries. The Samsung Note 7 fiasco is still fresh in my memory though.

Those AVHerald articles are an interesting read. The first one I read was a flight emergency landing due to a cell phone overheating and smoking.

On flights, I do keep my cell fully charged because I will need it both in-flight to read e-books and upon landing, to communicate with persons I'm connecting with in the destination city. It seems that phone batteries just don't last long enough!

No, I've flown to over 20 countries with either my P3A/P4/P4P/Mavic Air and you're not required to carry your batteries in LIPO bags. I carry my 4 batteries loose in a backpack.

gyrex Posted at 2018-7-31 08:08
No, I've flown to over 20 countries with either my P3A/P4/P4P/Mavic Air and you're not required to carry your batteries in LIPO bags. I carry my 4 batteries loose in a backpack.

Thanks. That's the kind of track record that gives me confidence.

The batteries will be secured in the backpack, in foam that's cut specifically for these batteries and the Phantom 4 Pro itself. One battery will be mounted in the Phantom and the other two in the foam.

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Fr the last year I have been quizzed at check-in by Turkish Airways and Emirates. Recently I was quizzed at checkin by Air Baltic.

The questions were :

Do you have any batterys in your bags ? Checked AND carry on ?

Are any Lithium batterys ?

As I value my notebook computer and tablets - I always have those in carry on and easily removed for security checks along with the 3 mobiles I carry. I have in the distant past carried notebook computers in checked bags - but after a hard drive failed ... I never did again.

I travel a lot and I am seeing more check-in signs mentioning batterys ... and the need to have in carry-on bags. I have seen no mention of charge level or safe bags.

My own opinion for what its worth is that I would travel with batterys at low storage level .. about 30%.

As to type of batterys in gear ... generally computers / tablets / phones have hard case LiIon - not exactly LiPo.
LiPo is a form of LiIon with addition of Polymer to enable for special purposes - models have benefited from that requirement. Depending on the LiIon you compare to - they can same or different energy density as well as full voltage. Simple google will give links for this.

LiPo bags ? Many online tests are shown on YT and other sites illustrating the poor quality of most LiPo bags. Very few in fact actually are the Safe bags they claim. But the fact remains that they do retard the spread of the problem ... can give time to remove to a safe place.
Question of course in event of such happening in the aircraft cabin ... what are they going to do ?  I have actually chatted to Cabin Service and they really are at a loss what to do ... expecially when they understand that a) LiPo fire produces volumous acrid / toxic smoke, b) common extinguishers do not extinguish the fire, c) aircraft is pressurised at a high altitude - so they cannot open the door and throw it out !

Not so long ago Boeing had to change the 777 back up systems batterys from LiPo back to the older standard NiXX .... as I understand it - they only admitted the 777 ... but affected various other aircraft not only of Boeing. I'm not sure if the solved the problem and fitted LiPo again ...

Few links ...

Turkish Airways : https://www.turkishairlines.com/ ... tions/restrictions/

Emirates specifically mention drones : https://www.emirates.com/english ... s-goods-policy.aspx

Basically I quoted these two airlines and thought their web info may assist. Looking at other sites - it appears that these two are about middle road and agree reasonably well with IATA ...

My wife flew to Japan and then the Philippines on Japan Airlines with our P4P and 3 batteries. Not a word from security or the airline. Everything was in a hardshell backpack with individual compartments for the batteries.

The  biggest problem with this subject and answers has been very well illustrated now :

It really depends on who is sat at the check-in desk and whether they bother to read their own rules - which are generally displayed above their heads !!  How many times do you see ridiculous carryon bags ignored etc. ??

I gave example airlines that HAVE asked me if I am carrying batterys ..... Mark gives example of one that did not ask.

I think I can say quite reasonably that  any of those could act differently depending on the person behind the desk.

All we can do is prepare for the strictest regime, then we can feel comfortable we have done our best. It is a simple matter  to google the airline and check its rules.

I never used the bags, I just tape the ends so no metal touches it and I am fine.