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Intersting? Fluidity drone remote....
805 29 2018-11-5
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JT_Vegas
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This came up in my news feed this morning, looks kind of interesting, what does everyone else think?
https://fluidity.tech/

2018-11-5
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DJI Natalia
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Hi there, thanks for sharing this information with us. I hope one of our valued Customer can share their opinion regarding that matter. If you have other question, please let us know. Thank you.
2018-11-5
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A CW
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Prefer old fashioned RC sticks myself but this does look cool.
2018-11-5
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randy.sauder
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Very Cool and promising.  I personally love the ergonomics of DJI's controller (Mavic) however the Fluidity reminds me of the degree of control you get via a well designed DSLR camera's external controls.  The key issue I see with this is potentially how cumbersome it may be to also have to keep the DJI controller on your body as well as how it and the phone holder may interfere with the joystick.  Currently its design does not address the USB controller from phone to Fluidity controller (it may get in the way, and also if its port design is very poor quality - like DJI's - then it would render the controller untrustworthy).  Also given that DJI's remote has extremely questionable reliability (transmission disconnects as of recent due to firmware) I have reservations about the Fluidity's ability to maintain connectivity  (BT 5), as it adds just one more device to the chain.  If they could integrate the radio controller into it- then this could be a game changer (but DJI would never allow it).  Best case scenario is that Fluidity is hoping DJI would acquire their company/tech.  I would welcome this innovation and choice in controllers.  
2018-11-5
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Sky Carrier
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Nice, but I think I like the current RC best
2018-11-5
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jacksonnai
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Nice one thanks for sharing
2018-11-5
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Lamplighter55
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Reminds one of the 'fly-by-'wire' stick controllers in modern aircraft. Would be interesting if it were to have haptic-feedback integrated in it too. Not that we need a stall warning judder as such, but maybe a range limit warning along those lines maybe?
2018-11-6
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fans39e06244
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Thanks for the mention,  JT_Vegas. We're thrilled to be releasing our FT Aviator on Kickstarter this week (50% early discounts at kickstarter.com/projects/fluiditytech/ft-aviator-a-revolutionary-single-handed-drone-con[/url]) - designed to reduce the pilot workload and allow you to really focus on the imagery that you're out there to capture. We put all 4 degrees-of-freedom control into a single hand, allowing precise commands while substantially reducing cross coupling (or inadvertent commands). We've also added special camera control features and situational awareness cues that make DJI's amazing drones even more capable. Please check us out!
2018-11-6
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ScottAV8R
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A CW Posted at 11-5 09:58
Prefer old fashioned RC sticks myself but this does look cool.

Thanks, A CW. You're absolutely right about old fashioned: dual thumb control dates back to the 1930s based on the research we've done. Our FT Aviator gives you a greater feel for when you're issuing a command, and when you're not (which is equally important). It's a more natural and precise way of piloting, since you always know where your thumb is relative to your hand, and your hand relative to your wrist. Using both thumbs can lead to over- or under-corrections, and occasionally cross coupling (inadvertent motion, such as getting a bit of yaw when all you're really trying to do is ascend). Moreover, it's just a whole lot of fun to fly like a high performance jet pilot with a single stick controller... !
2018-11-6
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ScottAV8R
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randy.sauder Posted at 11-5 10:32
Very Cool and promising.  I personally love the ergonomics of DJI's controller (Mavic) however the Fluidity reminds me of the degree of control you get via a well designed DSLR camera's external controls.  The key issue I see with this is potentially how cumbersome it may be to also have to keep the DJI controller on your body as well as how it and the phone holder may interfere with the joystick.  Currently its design does not address the USB controller from phone to Fluidity controller (it may get in the way, and also if its port design is very poor quality - like DJI's - then it would render the controller untrustworthy).  Also given that DJI's remote has extremely questionable reliability (transmission disconnects as of recent due to firmware) I have reservations about the Fluidity's ability to maintain connectivity  (BT 5), as it adds just one more device to the chain.  If they could integrate the radio controller into it- then this could be a game changer (but DJI would never allow it).  Best case scenario is that Fluidity is hoping DJI would acquire their company/tech.  I would welcome this innovation and choice in controllers.

Thanks for your thoughtful comments, Randy. For launch we'll ship with a lanyard and a strap that envelopes the Mavic radio, and it's really comfortable and out of the way as you fly. The FT Aviator communicates with the DJI ecosystem by means of BT to your smartphone (the phone is actually USB to the DJI radio), and we have multiple safety features coded and engineered in to prevent inadvertent motion. We are looking at options to integrate a transmitter into our next product offering, as well as integration with aftermarket transmitters for other makes of drones.
2018-11-6
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ScottAV8R
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Lamplighter55 Posted at 11-6 08:49
Reminds one of the 'fly-by-'wire' stick controllers in modern aircraft. Would be interesting if it were to have haptic-feedback integrated in it too. Not that we need a stall warning judder as such, but maybe a range limit warning along those lines maybe?

Thanks, Lamplighter55 - We agree that our control methods have really exciting potential for other fly-by-wire aircraft including modern helicopters (not to mention gaming, CAD, VR/AR and other industrial applications). We do have built-in tactile feedback, such that you always know when you're issuing a command, and when you're not. This gives you great capabilities in multi-axis flight - being able to have full stick deflections in all 4 drone flight control axes at the same time, and know exactly when you've feathered them out...
2018-11-6
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A CW
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ScottAV8R Posted at 11-6 11:46
Thanks, A CW. You're absolutely right about old fashioned: dual thumb control dates back to the 1930s based on the research we've done. Our FT Aviator gives you a greater feel for when you're issuing a command, and when you're not (which is equally important). It's a more natural and precise way of piloting, since you always know where your thumb is relative to your hand, and your hand relative to your wrist. Using both thumbs can lead to over- or under-corrections, and occasionally cross coupling (inadvertent motion, such as getting a bit of yaw when all you're really trying to do is ascend). Moreover, it's just a whole lot of fun to fly like a high performance jet pilot with a single stick controller... !

It certainly looks fun too use - thanks for sharing.
2018-11-6
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Lamplighter55
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ScottAV8R Posted at 11-6 12:02
Thanks, Lamplighter55 - We agree that our control methods have really exciting potential for other fly-by-wire aircraft including modern helicopters (not to mention gaming, CAD, VR/AR and other industrial applications). We do have built-in tactile feedback, such that you always know when you're issuing a command, and when you're not. This gives you great capabilities in multi-axis flight - being able to have full stick deflections in all 4 drone flight control axes at the same time, and know exactly when you've feathered them out...

This sounds very interesting - almost like being able to 'feel' the flight envelope. Fascinating advanced ergonomic solutions and concept. Thanks for posting.
2018-11-8
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DeuceDriv3r
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from a human factors design standpoint it looks very cumbersome and almost impossible to use precisely while standing up..

using a joystick precisely in a cockpit requires either the pilots forearm being on a shelf or braced on the top of the thigh to support the gross muscles from having to keeps the arm in place and allowing fine motor control for precision movement.. if it were incorporated into a ground station thats one thing but standing up and doing dynamic recreational flying or precision commercial work that might require the pilot to be standing and mobile.. see it as very unwieldily and cumbersome and far from easy to precisely control and likely very fatiguing to the arm...
2018-11-8
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ScottAV8R
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DeuceDriv3r Posted at 11-8 11:17
from a human factors design standpoint it looks very cumbersome and almost impossible to use precisely while standing up..

using a joystick precisely in a cockpit requires either the pilots forearm being on a shelf or braced on the top of the thigh to support the gross muscles from having to keeps the arm in place and allowing fine motor control for precision movement.. if it were incorporated into a ground station thats one thing but standing up and doing dynamic recreational flying or precision commercial work that might require the pilot to be standing and mobile.. see it as very unwieldily and cumbersome and far from easy to precisely control and likely very fatiguing to the arm...

Actually the FT Aviator is extremely comfortable and natural to use, borne out of extensive human factors tests. It only weighs 0.9 lbs/0.5 kg, and rests naturally in your non-dominant hand - and you simply react against this point of reference. Light actuation forces and tactile feedback give you a direct sense of when you're inputing a command, and when you're not, in all four degrees of freedom at the same time. High time commercial drone pilots who've tried it have loved it - hopefully you'll get a chance to check it out sometime. We were just recognized as a CES Innovation Honoree last night - stop by our booth if you happen to attend CES 2019.
2018-11-9
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rolling56
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Only if they make a lefty model
2018-11-9
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DeuceDriv3r
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ScottAV8R Posted at 11-9 07:31
Actually the FT Aviator is extremely comfortable and natural to use, borne out of extensive human factors tests. It only weighs 0.9 lbs/0.5 kg, and rests naturally in your non-dominant hand - and you simply react against this point of reference. Light actuation forces and tactile feedback give you a direct sense of when you're inputing a command, and when you're not, in all four degrees of freedom at the same time. High time commercial drone pilots who've tried it have loved it - hopefully you'll get a chance to check it out sometime. We were just recognized as a CES Innovation Honoree last night - stop by our booth if you happen to attend CES 2019.

uh huh.. and I want to hold up 1 lb plus the weight of my other hand for a 30 minute flight.. sounds like fun....

looks like a good product for professionals that can be somewhat static and possibly even have a table or at least a seat..

but for dynamic shooting or for portable drones like the mavic line here .. just seems a bit big and unwieldily  to take around with a portable drone and have to hold up for hours of shooting at a location where I have to walk around, stand up and rotate my body etc..

look forward to seeing actual customer reviews when it comes out..

2018-11-9
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randy.sauder
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ScottAV8R Posted at 11-6 11:56
Thanks for your thoughtful comments, Randy. For launch we'll ship with a lanyard and a strap that envelopes the Mavic radio, and it's really comfortable and out of the way as you fly. The FT Aviator communicates with the DJI ecosystem by means of BT to your smartphone (the phone is actually USB to the DJI radio), and we have multiple safety features coded and engineered in to prevent inadvertent motion. We are looking at options to integrate a transmitter into our next product offering, as well as integration with aftermarket transmitters for other makes of drones.

Thanks. As an Engineer I think this will be a success, even more so if the full transmit function can be integrated (with an OccuSync license).   My feeling without trying is that the perception of it being cumbersome will be eliminated once the extra precision of flight is experienced.  What I'd personally like to see is some sort of 'protector' for the phone's usb port (like the clamp that is part of DJI's remote); this would protect the connector from being bumped and potentially bending/stressing the port...this is the primary reason why most people opt to use the bottom USB port on the DJI remote (and for sure the flaky quality of this side port in general).  Also it would be fair to point out that it seems that DJI has done something via their firmware within the last several months that greatly affects the controller's signal strength; this often requires the user to actually point/readjust the remotes antenna to regain signal strength as antenna orientation in my experience requires more adjustment than ever before.  If the DJI remote is now just on a lanyard, this could be problematic.  
2018-11-10
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ScottAV8R
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rolling56 Posted at 11-9 07:33
Only if they make a lefty model

The FT Aviator is fully ambidextrous - just rotate and clip the smartphone holder to the other side, mount your phone and launch...
2018-11-11
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ScottAV8R
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randy.sauder Posted at 11-10 11:11
Thanks. As an Engineer I think this will be a success, even more so if the full transmit function can be integrated (with an OccuSync license).   My feeling without trying is that the perception of it being cumbersome will be eliminated once the extra precision of flight is experienced.  What I'd personally like to see is some sort of 'protector' for the phone's usb port (like the clamp that is part of DJI's remote); this would protect the connector from being bumped and potentially bending/stressing the port...this is the primary reason why most people opt to use the bottom USB port on the DJI remote (and for sure the flaky quality of this side port in general).  Also it would be fair to point out that it seems that DJI has done something via their firmware within the last several months that greatly affects the controller's signal strength; this often requires the user to actually point/readjust the remotes antenna to regain signal strength as antenna orientation in my experience requires more adjustment than ever before.  If the DJI remote is now just on a lanyard, this could be problematic.

Appreciate the excellent feedback, Randy. We've planned on keeping the DJI radio forward facing with our lanyard (as well as a secondary carrying capability that's now in development), but understand the challenges.
2018-11-11
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DeuceDriv3r
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ScottAV8R Posted at 11-11 11:03
Appreciate the excellent feedback, Randy. We've planned on keeping the DJI radio forward facing with our lanyard (as well as a secondary carrying capability that's now in development), but understand the challenges.

and excerpt from a research report authored by the air force flight dynamics laboratory while researching side stick controllers ...

Studies with the F-16A, F-104D SSCS, BD-5 and the NT-33A all seem to
indicate that for various reasons the pilot's forearm should be supported,
and that the position of this support is important. To quote Reference 12: "The top of the stick should be no more than one inch
above the forefinger. The vertical position of the hand
is dictated by the necessity to firmly rest the forearm
on the armrest. Thus, the height of the switch above the pilot's hand is determined by the size of the pilot's hand or the bulkiness of his clothing. In order to have easy and positive access to the switch or button, the device must be one inch or less above the forefinger. An operational sidestick should have a variable control stick length or variable armrest height to allow precise control of the position of the top of the control stick and the top of the pilot's hand."

bottom line and thrust of the paper is what I have mentioned above...

stick flight controls  whether a traditional center stick or sidestick required the pilots arm to be immobilized/steadied so that the pilot no longer had to expend gross motor function to support the arm so fine motor responses could be dedicated to proper flight control surface control through the stick actuator .. hence the reason that everything from F-16s to airbuses that use digital sticks have an arm shelf and center sticks are designed to a height that permits the pilot to rest the arm on the thigh ...

additionally according to your site its marketed as a single handed controller but based on the website and your comments you have to support the base with your non flying hand?  Can the stick be actuated if the support hand it removed... say to work a button on goggles or edit settings on the phone/tablet ?  seems that you need the support hand to hold the base to have oppsing force to operate the stick against?

any way best of luck with your product .. if we stop innovating we die..

but as a pilot, and aerospace physiologist with a masters in aeronautical engineering I can also say that sometimes it pays to heed the multi million dollar research done at others expense while improving on design...
2018-11-11
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DeuceDriv3r Posted at 11-11 15:06
and excerpt from a research report authored by the air force flight dynamics laboratory while researching side stick controllers ...

Studies with the F-16A, F-104D SSCS, BD-5 and the NT-33A all seem to

Great discussion, Randy, and there's certainly wisdom in the extensive human factors research that's been done on side-stick forearm support (F-16, etc.). As someone with a lot of T-38 hours, however, I can tell you that you can do some pretty wonderful flying without the forearm supported too. Having our base comfortably supported in your non-dominant hand makes a fantastic reference point for flight control via the joystick, and allows the other hand to focus on camera assets when required. Some operators may choose to mount the device via a 1/4-20, but it's really easy to operate while on the go. We'll keep evolving the FT Aviator's capabilities from observations like yours, and we hope you get to try it one of these days.

2018-11-12
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DeuceDriv3r
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ScottAV8R Posted at 11-12 09:40
Great discussion, Randy, and there's certainly wisdom in the extensive human factors research that's been done on side-stick forearm support (F-16, etc.). As someone with a lot of T-38 hours, however, I can tell you that you can do some pretty wonderful flying without the forearm supported too. Having our base comfortably supported in your non-dominant hand makes a fantastic reference point for flight control via the joystick, and allows the other hand to focus on camera assets when required. Some operators may choose to mount the device via a 1/4-20, but it's really easy to operate while on the go. We'll keep evolving the FT Aviator's capabilities from observations like yours, and we hope you get to try it one of these days.

except randy didn't post it....

2018-11-12
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DeuceDriv3r
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ScottAV8R Posted at 11-12 09:40
Great discussion, Randy, and there's certainly wisdom in the extensive human factors research that's been done on side-stick forearm support (F-16, etc.). As someone with a lot of T-38 hours, however, I can tell you that you can do some pretty wonderful flying without the forearm supported too. Having our base comfortably supported in your non-dominant hand makes a fantastic reference point for flight control via the joystick, and allows the other hand to focus on camera assets when required. Some operators may choose to mount the device via a 1/4-20, but it's really easy to operate while on the go. We'll keep evolving the FT Aviator's capabilities from observations like yours, and we hope you get to try it one of these days.

I have LOTS of time in the T-38 as well..

and I KNOW you were not taught to hold the stick with you arm suspended in space but laying in your lap.. and you should also know that for manuevers that required precise inputs like high mach number cruise and formation flying .. we didn't do it with our arms .. and didn't even grab the stick with our whole hand, but flew with fingertips... RIGHT...?

2018-11-12
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randy.sauder
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DeuceDriv3r Posted at 11-12 09:43
except randy didn't post it....

He only mentioned me 2x because it was my posts that were GREAT .  Kidding.  I'm certain that the OP and team have considerable degree of competence in this design.  FYI, - UAV operators don't have the luxury of a seat and cockpit to accommodate the incorporation of stabilizing a forearm as this study relates to, nor are UAV operators INSIDE their craft participating in the dynamics of flight (which are the context of the research cited).  
2018-11-13
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DeuceDriv3r
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randy.sauder Posted at 11-13 11:01
He only mentioned me 2x because it was my posts that were GREAT .  Kidding.  I'm certain that the OP and team have considerable degree of competence in this design.  FYI, - UAV operators don't have the luxury of a seat and cockpit to accommodate the incorporation of stabilizing a forearm as this study relates to, nor are UAV operators INSIDE their craft participating in the dynamics of flight (which are the context of the research cited).

doesn't change the fact that very precise movements are not done with gross muscle involvement .. surgeons,.. for example don't cut with their arms like butchers.. they stabilize the hand and cut with their fingers.. and fine muscle movement with say fingers is almost impossible if gross muscle involvement in the arm it being utilized.. think of it like this .. how clean would your signature look if you had a 3 lb weight suspended from your wrists and your are asked to hold a clipboard in one hand and write with the other.. both while suspending weights.. don't bother answering.. I have already done the test in a lab with 100 participants..

seems very awkward to have to hold the base steady to give your other hand something to push the stick against.. and again.. what happens when I have to remove my hand from the base?   I can maneuver and or hold position one handed with a 2 stick controller, I  just loose height and rudder but at least I can keep a craft moving forward and latterly while I make adjustments.  worse.. what if the weight of my phone/tablet or whatever else hangs off the 'stick' tilts the base when I let go.. not only will I not be able to remove my hand to mash buttons, pick something up.. flip the pages of a work order or script, but I have to worry about the drone moving too> out of control ... anyway.. I have never held one so I reserve final judgement until someone does.. right now its still vaporware until it gets release and real reviews can get done on it...

2018-11-13
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DeuceDriv3r Posted at 11-13 13:52
doesn't change the fact that very precise movements are not done with gross muscle involvement .. surgeons,.. for example don't cut with their arms like butchers.. they stabilize the hand and cut with their fingers.. and fine muscle movement with say fingers is almost impossible if gross muscle involvement in the arm it being utilized.. think of it like this .. how clean would your signature look if you had a 3 lb weight suspended from your wrists and your are asked to hold a clipboard in one hand and write with the other.. both while suspending weights.. don't bother answering.. I have already done the test in a lab with 100 participants..

seems very awkward to have to hold the base steady to give your other hand something to push the stick against.. and again.. what happens when I have to remove my hand from the base?   I can maneuver and or hold position one handed with a 2 stick controller, I  just loose height and rudder but at least I can keep a craft moving forward and latterly while I make adjustments.  worse.. what if the weight of my phone/tablet or whatever else hangs off the 'stick' tilts the base when I let go.. not only will I not be able to remove my hand to mash buttons, pick something up.. flip the pages of a work order or script, but I have to worry about the drone moving too> out of control ... anyway.. I have never held one so I reserve final judgement until someone does.. right now its still vaporware until it gets release and real reviews can get done on it...

Agreed, and I respect your knowledge in this area.  It appears intuitive that the counter balancing as you detail may impact its performance. I hope they've address this directly within their design.  Their product looks like they are focusing on adding several sensory inputs to augment UAS fight control, which you know are lacking in existing UAS manual control systems.  Perhaps this new method more than compensates for the lack of arm control you mention.  We'll have to wait as you say and see how real world reviews precipitate.
2018-11-13
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randy.sauder Posted at 11-13 17:43
Agreed, and I respect your knowledge in this area.  It appears intuitive that the counter balancing as you detail may impact its performance. I hope they've address this directly within their design.  Their product looks like they are focusing on adding several sensory inputs to augment UAS fight control, which you know are lacking in existing UAS manual control systems.  Perhaps this new method more than compensates for the lack of arm control you mention.  We'll have to wait as you say and see how real world reviews precipitate.

Sorry for mixing up callsigns on this thread (!), but i do hope you'll check us out when FT Aviators are more widely available. While this is not the ideal format to convince you one way or another, the origins of this technology stem from extensive aerospace and surgical underpinnings - and we've worked with exceptional engineering and human factors experts, and conducted a great deal of validation testing to get us to this point.

The origin of this technology actually stems from my background in medicine, trauma surgery and working with surgical robotics. The lightweight nature of the device, coupled with stabilizing the base with your non-dominant hand and moving relative to it is one of the most natural and easy-to-learn of motor tasks. Moreover, it allows for greater precision and, for most everyone who's tried it, greater fun... Reviews will be forthcoming, and you can decide if it's right for you...
2018-11-14
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DeuceDriv3r
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fans38b5d412 Posted at 11-14 12:48
Sorry for mixing up callsigns on this thread (!), but i do hope you'll check us out when FT Aviators are more widely available. While this is not the ideal format to convince you one way or another, the origins of this technology stem from extensive aerospace and surgical underpinnings - and we've worked with exceptional engineering and human factors experts, and conducted a great deal of validation testing to get us to this point.

The origin of this technology actually stems from my background in medicine, trauma surgery and working with surgical robotics. The lightweight nature of the device, coupled with stabilizing the base with your non-dominant hand and moving relative to it is one of the most natural and easy-to-learn of motor tasks. Moreover, it allows for greater precision and, for most everyone who's tried it, greater fun... Reviews will be forthcoming, and you can decide if it's right for you...

ok.. so clarify a couple things for me..
this is then definitly a 2 handed controller ... not a one handed controller as advertised... ?

if you have a fairly weighty device like an iPhone + or a iPad hanging off the base and an aircraft in flight..

and you let go of the base.. what happens to the aircraft. uncommanded inputs as the base hangs from the stick?

I definitely cant see holding this thing up all day doing pipeline, transmission wire or nuclear inspections ... industrial drones have some impressive loiter times and we just keep slapping batteries into them one after the other...

when I think of surgical controls I think of devices like this.. notice how the arms are braced to allow precise fine motor control without involving gross muscles or muscle fatigue. ..
robotic-surgery-wheeling-wv-300x247.jpg
2018-11-14
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fans38b5d412 Posted at 11-14 12:48
Sorry for mixing up callsigns on this thread (!), but i do hope you'll check us out when FT Aviators are more widely available. While this is not the ideal format to convince you one way or another, the origins of this technology stem from extensive aerospace and surgical underpinnings - and we've worked with exceptional engineering and human factors experts, and conducted a great deal of validation testing to get us to this point.

The origin of this technology actually stems from my background in medicine, trauma surgery and working with surgical robotics. The lightweight nature of the device, coupled with stabilizing the base with your non-dominant hand and moving relative to it is one of the most natural and easy-to-learn of motor tasks. Moreover, it allows for greater precision and, for most everyone who's tried it, greater fun... Reviews will be forthcoming, and you can decide if it's right for you...

Thanks- I most certainly will check this out.  I think it may be one of the most innovative products for us fliers in a long time.  I welcome a new controller MUCH more to the market then a new drone.  We need products like this.
2018-11-14
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