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Cold Battery Question
8023 37 2018-11-28
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JacobW
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Hi all,

So i've learned that you should always warm up your batteries before a flight in cold weather as to prevent possible power loss.

But what if you're not flying, but leaving your batteries in a cold location (And warming them up later on before your flight)? Could this prolonged time in cold temperature damage the batteries even if you don't use them?

Thanks for the help!
2018-11-28
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DJIJAKOB
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Pay attention to the battery temperature in the DJI GO 4 before takeoff. The batteries should have a minimum of 15 degrees celsius (59F) before takeoff. Pro-tip: Buy hand-warmers (cost 1 USD at local sports store) and keep them next to the batteries to keep them warm in cold conditions.
2018-11-28
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JacobW
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DJIJAKOB Posted at 11-28 08:33
Pay attention to the battery temperature in the DJI GO 4 before takeoff. The batteries should have a minimum of 15 degrees celsius (59F) before takeoff. Pro-tip: Buy hand-warmers (cost 1 USD at local sports store) and keep them next to the batteries to keep them warm in cold conditions.

Thanks for the advice!

I understand it's necessary that the batteries must be warmed before flying, but how about if they're not being used, and sitting out in the cold for a prolonged period of time?

Would the cold temperature cause damage to the battery even if it was not being used?
2018-11-28
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DJI Stephen
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Hello and good day JacobW. Thank you for the inquiry. The battery capacity will decrease significantly when the Intelligent Flight Battery is used at low temperatures ( below -10℃, 14℉ ), so using the Intelligent Flight Battery below -10℃ is prohibited. It is recommended to warm up the Intelligent Flight Battery to 20℃ ( 68℉ ) before a each and every flight.  Just a reminder for safe flight the operating temperature range for the DJI Phantom 4 Pro vs is 32° to 104°F (0° to 40°C). Thank you.
2018-11-28
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DJIJAKOB
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JacobW Posted at 11-28 08:47
Thanks for the advice!

I understand it's necessary that the batteries must be warmed before flying, but how about if they're not being used, and sitting out in the cold for a prolonged period of time?

According to the Phantom 4 Intelligent Battery Safety Guidelines; the batteries should be stored in a temperature between 22C-28C. "The ideal storage temperature is 22°C-28°C.". You can read more here: https://dl.djicdn.com/downloads/ ... y_Guidelines_en.pdf
2018-11-28
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JacobW
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DJIJAKOB Posted at 11-28 08:54
According to the Phantom 4 Intelligent Battery Safety Guidelines; the batteries should be stored in a temperature between 22C-28C. "The ideal storage temperature is 22°C-28°C.". You can read more here: https://dl.djicdn.com/downloads/phantom_4/en/Phantom_4_Intelligent_Flight_Battery_Safety_Guidelines_en.pdf

Gotcha!  Thanks!
2018-11-28
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Matthew Dobrski
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DJI Stephen Posted at 11-28 08:48
Hello and good day JacobW. Thank you for the inquiry. The battery capacity will decrease significantly when the Intelligent Flight Battery is used at low temperatures ( below -10℃, 14℉ ), so using the Intelligent Flight Battery below -10℃ is prohibited. It is recommended to warm up the Intelligent Flight Battery to 20℃ ( 68℉ ) before a each and every flight.  Just a reminder for safe flight the operating temperature range for the DJI Phantom 4 Pro vs is 32° to 104°F (0° to 40°C). Thank you.

Stephen, OP is talking about storage temperature, not about operating temperature.
2018-11-28
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solentlife
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As long as temperature is not FREEZING ... there is no harm at all to any LiPo to store cold.

Many people in fact place LiPo's at storage charge level in refrigerator.

The only care to take with this - before charging - let battery warm up to room temperature.

I do not understand where DJI gets a 22 - 28C recc'd from as I cannot find any manufacturer state such. In fact I can find reference to physical degradation due to keeping LiPo's overly warm in storage. Its why some people use fridge to store.

Nigel
2018-11-29
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SPIKE_151
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United Kingdom
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Lipos will certainly discharge quicker in low temperatures
2018-11-29
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Mark The Droner
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solentlife Posted at 11-29 06:39
I do not understand where DJI gets a 22 - 28C recc'd from ... some people use fridge to store.

Potential condensation problems?  
2018-11-29
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solentlife
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Quicker discharge in cold weather ? No ... not correct. What happens is that the battery cannot provide the chemical reaction in significant cold weather to support power delivery. Therefore the draw on the battery is increased to compensate creating a greater voltage drop.

Condensation ? Surely if you maintain a battery at 22C and then go outside to cooler air ... THEN you will suffer condensation internally from air inside .... but keep in a cold environment - the battery will have less moisture content air internally ..
But that's mute - because we would be warming the battery indoors - which is quite slow and reasonable ... then we keep battery warm for use.

Nigel
2018-11-29
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Mark The Droner
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Sorry I don't follow you.  If you have a battery that's kept at 25C and take it outside and start up your Phantom, there's no condensation because the battery never got cold.  The air might be cold but the battery started warm and is warm and stays warm.  That's the whole point.  

Take a cold battery from the 'fridge and warm it:  Condensation.  Like a can of beer on a warm day?  
2018-11-29
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Rodger8
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It is not an issue of condensation. It is an issue of temps below freezing. The battery capacity will discharge rapidly in below freezing temps. If you stored it charged in a fridge you brought it to an inoperable temp. The higher end DJI products incorporate battery heaters in them to make the Aircraft operable in lower temps.
2018-11-29
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Mark The Droner
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Rodger8 Posted at 11-29 16:24
...The higher end DJI products incorporate battery heaters in them to make the Aircraft operable in lower temps.

I'd love to see a link or a shred of proof of this statement.  But history has shown that you won't provide one, will you?  Nope.  
2018-11-29
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Rodger8
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Mark The Droner Posted at 11-29 18:17
I'd love to see a link or a shred of proof of this statement.  But history has shown that you won't provide one, will you?  Nope.

Read the product Data Sheets, that simple.
2018-11-29
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solentlife
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Mark The Droner Posted at 11-29 13:12
Sorry I don't follow you.  If you have a battery that's kept at 25C and take it outside and start up your Phantom, there's no condensation because the battery never got cold.  The air might be cold but the battery started warm and is warm and stays warm.  That's the whole point.  

Take a cold battery from the 'fridge and warm it:  Condensation.  Like a can of beer on a warm day?

Two different items ... I was pointing at atmosphere INTERNAL of the battery ... your example - which is correct refers to external air contact.

Cold air holds significantly less moisture than warm air.

But anyway - I do not regard condensation a factor to worry about ... I regard degradation of battery chemistry as far more important.

Nigel
2018-11-29
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solentlife
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Rodger8 Posted at 11-29 16:24
It is not an issue of condensation. It is an issue of temps below freezing. The battery capacity will discharge rapidly in below freezing temps. If you stored it charged in a fridge you brought it to an inoperable temp. The higher end DJI products incorporate battery heaters in them to make the Aircraft operable in lower temps.

Batterys do not discharge more rapidly in cold temps compared to warmer ... what you see 'apparent' decline due to reduction of chemical activity causing greater voltage drop.

If you fly high power models such as EDF's .... you can see this so easily ...

Here is my 50mm flying in warm weather :



Here's same model in winter with cold battery ... cannot take off !!



We hand launched her in the end ... and she was sluggish ...



Nigel
2018-11-29
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solentlife
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Rodger8 Posted at 11-29 20:08
Read the product Data Sheets, that simple.

Batterys naturally warm when called on to provide power. Please link exactly the statement that DJI installs heater capability into their batterys ...

Nigel
2018-11-29
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Manxmann
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Drone batteries and their operation must be the most contentious issues on the forum.
Surely someone must have accurate & verifiable answers ?
I'd like to hear more from DJI Techs....
2018-11-29
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solentlife
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DJI techs ????

I have emails from DJI Techs that conflict with each other ... and you can look through this forum and you will not find Techs contributing.

Nigel
2018-11-30
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Rodger8
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solentlife Posted at 11-29 22:03
Batterys do not discharge more rapidly in cold temps compared to warmer ... what you see 'apparent' decline due to reduction of chemical activity causing greater voltage drop.

If you fly high power models such as EDF's .... you can see this so easily ...

Voltage drop due cold temps true. Basically the same thing, Voltage moves the current (amperage) which does the work. Low voltage, no current, no work. In any event it has nothing to do with "condensation" which was what my reply was meant to address.
2018-11-30
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Rodger8
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solentlife Posted at 11-29 22:07
Batterys naturally warm when called on to provide power. Please link exactly the statement that DJI installs heater capability into their batterys ...

Nigel

I never said that they install them in all of their batteries. I said that they install heaters in their batteries to prevent discharge (voltage drop) to fly in cold weather. Heaters are provided in their professional products. Check the specs for the Inspire 2 for example and read the product description for the information on the installed heaters. Look at the operating temps for the Phantom vs the Inspire.
2018-11-30
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A CW
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They should be stored around 25c for long term storage of 3 months or more. For less storage time 15c is fine.
2018-11-30
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solentlife
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A CW Posted at 11-30 03:21
They should be stored around 25c for long term storage of 3 months or more. For less storage time 15c is fine.

Sorry ... I don't agree.

The cooling of the battery and causing reduced chemical reaction ... is advantageous when storing the battery.
15C to 30C is ideal temperature for USE of the battery.

Its a well known fact in the RC LiPo use community .... even battery expert sites mention storage at low temps eg below 10C.. such as fridge ... just do not freeze the battery ! Check out any Battery online tech site.

Nigel
2018-11-30
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A CW
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solentlife Posted at 11-30 04:10
Sorry ... I don't agree.

The cooling of the battery and causing reduced chemical reaction ... is advantageous when storing the battery. 15C to 30C is ideal temperature for USE of the battery.

That's how I store my batteries over the years and never had a battery fail on me Nigel with my 8 DJI drones I have owned - works for me mate so thought I would share my opinion based on my experience to the OP - I trust that is alright with you.
Take care.
2018-11-30
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solentlife
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A CW Posted at 11-30 04:14
That's how I store my batteries over the years and never had a battery fail on me Nigel with my 8 DJI drones I have owned - works for me mate so thought I would should my opinion based on my experience to the OP - I trust that is alright with you.
Take care.

No problem ... all my batterys are kept indoors at ambient house temperature ... basically because all my LiPo's are in regular use. They sit in  designated boxes ... labelled by size and cell count under the table that has my bank of chargers .. my DJI sit next to my 3+1 charger ...

Just because I know what Battery Techs advise - does not mean I do it. But I will pass on their info for others to decide if they wish to follow it or not. Bit like we know its not good to drink too much ... but we do it !! Doesn't change the fact of good or bad ... I accept the fact that my storage of my LiPo's can lead to possible shortening of life ...

Nigel
2018-11-30
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A CW
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solentlife Posted at 11-30 04:20
No problem ... all my batterys are kept indoors at ambient house temperature ... basically because all my LiPo's are in regular use. They sit in  designated boxes ... labelled by size and cell count under the table that has my bank of chargers .. my DJI sit next to my 3+1 charger ...

Just because I know what Battery Techs advise - does not mean I do it. But I will pass on their info for others to decide if they wish to follow it or not.

Cool - I'm no battery expert mate but go by what's in the DJI manual and so far so good (with batteries at least).
2018-11-30
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solentlife
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Yes ... and they still quote DEEP DISCHARGE of batterys !!

Look at point 6 as well ... how many carry their batterys to flight site at no more than 50% charged ?  

22 - 28C flies in the face of Battery Tech Online info. Which is strange considering that these are LiPo with no special construction ...

Nigel
2018-11-30
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A CW
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solentlife Posted at 11-30 04:28
Yes ... and they still quote DEEP DISCHARGE of batterys !!

Look at point 6 as well ... how many carry their batterys to flight site at no more than 50% charged ?  

Hahahaha - I agree - I always travel with 100% charge and never deep discharge.
2018-11-30
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Air/America
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solentlife Posted at 11-29 22:03
Batterys do not discharge more rapidly in cold temps compared to warmer ... what you see 'apparent' decline due to reduction of chemical activity causing greater voltage drop.

If you fly high power models such as EDF's .... you can see this so easily ...

Why did not that guy in the videos mount the key chain camera at near the C.G. (center of gravity) on the fuselage instead of on the nose? Aircraft would have flown much better.

2018-11-30
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solentlife
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Air/America Posted at 11-30 05:07
Why did not that guy in the videos mount the key chain camera at near the C.G. (center of gravity) on the fuselage instead of on the nose? Aircraft would have flown much better.

That guy is ME !!

Makes no difference actually ... I agree the addition of a few grams - but given that model flies depending on location / required - with 3S 1300 up to 4S 1600 with no change of battery position forward of balance point.

That model has flown many times in that config with no discernible affect. The main point of those videos - is to illustrate the reduced power due temperature.

Nigel
2018-11-30
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Air/America
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solentlife Posted at 11-30 05:52
That guy is ME !!

Makes no difference actually ... I agree the addition of a few grams - but given that model flies depending on location / required - with 3S 1300 up to 4S 1600 with no change of battery position forward of balance point.

:-)

2018-12-1
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solentlife
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No worries ....

It was hell of a day and despite the poor EDF flight ... we all had a great laugh. But it was certainly a very good example of cold LiPo ....

The thing t note is it is a good example because most RC models do not have Cold Temp limitation .. you plug in and motors work. As you see there - the plane did fly but not as it normally would. In summer with that setup - she is about 120 - 130kph ... but that day barely 100 probably more like 85 - 90kph. On summer day she would have a ground run of maybe 15m or so and airborne .... but that day she just would not lift ...

NIgel
2018-12-2
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Filip Kyzek
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Hello! I think so because the cold  will already take some of the power which can lead to power loss. So yeah!
2018-12-2
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Filip Kyzek
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Or maybe I am wrong...
2018-12-2
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solentlife
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For those interested to see what a 50mm EDF T45 can do with simple upgrade .....



And my old Red Arrows frame modified to pusher prop even faster ...



Nigel
2018-12-2
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djiuser_N8Qxgb6Vi4Ka
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Norway
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Iput my batteries im -3 -5 Ican fly Mutch longer PRONTO
2022-8-11
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djiuser_N8Qxgb6Vi4Ka
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Everyone is som smart they think Og you tou cold bateriie this an that Nobidy no anything
2022-8-11
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