I flew my Mavic Air last Saturday, next to my home.  I was in the little park, and took off. I hovered for 20 seconds, then went out about 200' and made a U turn and started back. All of a sudden the controller is beeping and saying she is landing NOW!!!    I am 55 seconds into my flight and then the software discoveres a temporary No FLY zone.  Then it said it would automatically land in 13 seconds.   I was over water, and it did NOT make it back even though I tried to gain altitude, hit the red cancle button, and prayed.  I watched it land in the water and sink within a second.


I tossed the controller in the grass and leaped into the water and swam the one minute to get to the spot, but it is 20' deep and no visibility. I tried to find it, and even went and got mask fins and snorkle, but no luck. It's in Davey's Locker now, with Bootstrap Bill.  

I am so sad/mad/angry.    I flew in the same spot earlier in the week, and no problems. But the President of the United States was in town, and DJI software did NOT alert anything, even though I did a software check before take off! (  It flew fine and then in 55 sconds into the flight it decides to land!!!!!!!!!!    Not "return to home", not say "you can't fly here", but it just lands in the water and dies.

I am 6.25 miles from closest small airport and 20 miles away from where the President was staying here in Florida)

How is this NOT a software error?   Im out my drone   $1,088.00
I am supposed to film a bunch of kids from our church in 2 weeks, and they are expecting me to do this favor.

Who else has this happened too?  
Thanks,
Randy

Hi, we're sorry for the mishap that happens on your drone. I highly recommend syncing your flight records and contact support via the link below for our team to initiate the investigation and provide an appropriate resolution. The resolution would depend on the outcome of the investigation and the warranty of the unit. For additional information, if the unit is no longer covered by the warranty, then I'm afraid that our team would not offer the data analysis to determine what happened to your aircraft. Kindly keep us posted on the latest progress. Thank you for understanding.

www.dji.com/support

Can you post the flight log . You said you also pressed on cancel button, you do know there is a second button warning that you must confirm.

Sorry to know that mate

That sucks.

This is strange. Curious to know the reason. Is it because of No GPS ?? :O

Based on your comment about temp NFZ and Trump in town, could someone have switched on a blanket security signal  that brought on the issue?
No GPS and 8 satellites may suggest Mr. Drone woke up in flight thinking it was closer to a NFZ than it actually was.
Being in an open space like you claim suggests satellites would have been plentiful. Did you wait for all the satellites or did you forget them and just fly?

Hope you're back in the air soon

Hiya,

sorry for your loss!

If you like post your flightlog on here using > https://www.phantomhelp.com/LogViewer/Upload/

Log can mayby explain more what really happend.

cheers
JJB

There have been a few similar drownings posted here previously.  Posting you flight records here will at least get you an explanation of what happened.  

From the image it looks like his home point is in the water, and the distance to it was 1ft.  
If that is true it looks like a RTH would have given the same result.

I will comment because I am an avid Spark pilot and will be a Mavic Air pilot tomorrow when my flymore package arrives.
Your screen shot tells it all.
There was not enough GPS sats locked on take off.
Especially at the point of the screenshot.
It did not know where it was to alert you.
While flying, "The home point has been updated, please check it on the map" locked in and placed your home point on the water.
Then once it realized where it was, a NFZ, it took the appropriate action.
Sorry to say, had you waited for a solid lock before takeoff, you would not have been able to take off.

I wish I had better news for you but I am sure the logs will confirm this.

Took off without satellite lock, after takeoff got lock, at that point the Mavic knew where it was and that was in a NFZ. That’s also why the home point is over water. Would really like to see the log.
EDIT: Sorry @pmshop I didn’t read your post before I posted, my bad

Yep, pretty sure its user fault even though it's a cascade of unfortunate events. But your homepoint is in the water, not at your actual starting point I suppose.

Thanks everyone,   Here is the Flight Record I uploaded:     https://www.phantomhelp.com/LogViewer/R2T0OV2LMDNPNKMC8AA4/Randy

Grumpy D Posted at 3-27 05:14
Took off without satellite lock, after takeoff got lock, at that point the Mavic knew where it was and that was in a NFZ. That’s also why the home point is over water. Would really like to see the log.
EDIT: Sorry @pmshop I didn’t read your post before I posted, my bad

Here is the flight log:   https://www.phantomhelp.com/LogViewer/R2T0OV2LMDNPNKMC8AA4/

Thanks for the help!
Randy

Looks like pilot error!

edit : while I was writting You did post log

have to agree with others - pilot error not let drone get position (satlock) before takeoff
around 1min airborne your homepoint is recorded in middle of water :/ then no-fly-zone drama starts

strange that there was no way to counter autolanding, but it all start with no patience to get gpslock

cpt.randall@gma Posted at 3-27 08:12
Here is the flight log:   https://www.phantomhelp.com/LogViewer/R2T0OV2LMDNPNKMC8AA4/

Thanks for the help!

Hi Randy,

You started your flight with only 4 satellites and no GPS reception.
Flight in OPTI mode and few times in ATTI, flying away from your takeoff position...)

After 48 secs 8 sats and 2 bars for reception, LatLon positions now recorderd.
At 52 seconds HP set, but ofcourse not at your takeoff spot! (nope, above water)

At 1m13 warning " You are in a No-Fly Zone. Auto landing initiated" .
Craft is autolanding....

Strange to see it is still loosing height while your did put UP input.
Normally with autolanding (critical power etc) RC input UP will keep the drone at height, so be able to fly to other position.
So hope that DJI can explain this.
I have no experience/knowledge when flying in a NFZ.  
If you had waited for good GPS signal, guess you were not able to fly into a NFZ.
Guess now it was inside, GPS signals alive and oops, i am flying in a NFZ.





cheers
JJB

Thanks for the help. Pilot error, and life errors S U C K !

cpt.randall@gma Posted at 3-27 08:12
Here is the flight log:   https://www.phantomhelp.com/LogViewer/R2T0OV2LMDNPNKMC8AA4/

Thanks for the help!

Flight was fraught with problems, however I’m not sure that not having enough gps was the cause of you not receiving NFZ warning, I do know and have read that dji drones will not cross geo fence in Atti mode, so I would presume this should be the same when taking off in Atti mode or weak gps .
I did not see anywhere in your log you canceling landing, I think this maybe a case where you pressed cancel X but never followed by pressing Confirm .

It’s also strange that you were flying further from home point when craft was landing, although you did push up left stick you were only feet from water .

I think you should have had a warning of NFZ at take off and it’s for this reason I think you might have a case with dji.
If you go to NFZ on trying to start motors up you will get message that aircraft won’t start and I’m almost certain this should occur before gps .

I wish you luck .

I’m very curious, what is the big attraction to water for new pilots?  In this case, the pilot had a nicely groomed field right there, but flew over water instead. WHY

Grumpy D Posted at 3-27 11:30
I’m very curious, what is the big attraction to water for new pilots?  In this case, the pilot had a nicely groomed field right there, but flew over water instead. WHY

Since humans started exploring the planet, we’ve followed the water. Crossing oceans gave way to new discoveries and changed the course of history; chasing rivers opened our horizons. As travelers, we seek waterways on vacation, driving new coastlines in search of wild surf spots. We return to familiar "blue spaces" we grew up around. And now the same with drones. ;+) :::::

cpt.randall@gma Posted at 3-27 10:34
Thanks for the help. Pilot error, and life errors S U C K !

Hi Randy,

Some more info.

At autoland your drone was heading 338, and your stick input fwd and up. So your MA was moving away from homepoint wich was above water (green marking in the chart).
[ top of map is North ]
IMO it is not possible to be stopped at a GEO fence in ATTI in this flight, simple reason because the drone does not know where it is flying because no GPS signals are received. if ATTI is there because of a error and GPS signals are available but not used, than mayby a stop at a fence.

Still the question why it keep descending while 100% left stick up??

cheers
JJB

I’m not sure why some people are so emphatic about what they think they know and it is only what they think they know and it’s becoming wearing around here particularly when it helps no one.

As I said it’s not possible to fly across or takeoff in NFZ in Atti mode, the reason I was pretty sure of this was when doing my commercial license, it was actually done from airport grounds and we needed clearance to take off in both Atti and gps mode and without this NFZ unlock it would not be possible to take off.
I’ll point you to this article and although it refers to Phantom I’m pretty sure, not 100% like others but anyhow you can read the piece that I’m referring to just under the picture of RC, there are other similar articles out there as well.

https://www.dpreview.com/articles/5101939047/how-to-safely-operate-a-drone-in-urban-areas?utm_source=self-desktop&utm_medium=marquee&utm_campaign=traffic_source


It also makes a lot of sense why would dji allow you to walk into a NFZ with say a phantom and just take off and fly around to your hearts content, it would defeat the purpose of having NFZ and geo fencing.

In reading the manual it says to halt landing you must first push throttle up, you were pushing on elevator and didn’t let up when you first pushed up on throttle .

hallmark007 Posted at 3-27 12:52
I’m not sure why some people are so emphatic about what they think they know and it is only what they think they know and it’s becoming wearing around here particularly when it helps no one.

As I said it’s not possible to fly across or takeoff in NFZ in Atti mode, the reason I was pretty sure of this was when doing my commercial license, it was actually done from airport grounds and we needed clearance to take off in both Atti and gps mode and without this NFZ unlock it would not be possible to take off.

Until it got a good solid GPS location lock, how would it know where it is at in order to be able to decide if it is in an NFZ or not?

You can see that it didn't have a clue where in the world it was at until 0min 52.5sec when it recorded the home point.  As soon as it found out where it was at, then two-tenths of a second later, it immediately started logging that it was going to land in 15 seconds and started counting down.  After 15 seconds elapsed, then it started its landing process.
My interpretation of that is that it didn't know where it was at until that point.  When it found out it was in an NFZ, it immediately took action.  Until it knew its actual location, it couldn't make a decision to not let it cross any sort of boundary.

KlooGee Posted at 3-27 13:06
Until it got a good solid GPS location lock, how would it know where it is at in order to be able to decide if it is in an NFZ or not?

You can see that it didn't have a clue where in the world it was at until 0min 52.5sec when it recorded the home point.  As soon as it found out where it was at, then two-tenths of a second later, it immediately started logging that it was going to land in 15 seconds and started counting down.  After 15 seconds elapsed, then it started its landing process.

I think you will find that all changed in both phantom and Mavic Pro in 2017, it changed in Mavic Pro .600 FW 2017 .
I also think you will find that the minute you switch on your drone before you fire up your motors you will first get message that you cannot take off, you don’t have to wait to get 11 gps satellites before getting this message .
I also think you will find that the OP’s gps module was working when he turned craft on, are you telling me he must first get enough satellites to fly before he gets the warning or does his gps module just need to be turned on to receive messages.

Once you turn on craft you also turn on gps module , maybe you can tell me how many satellites you need to receive a message.
What your saying is NFZ are not NFZ if you just walk on to them and fly around in Atti mode, I believe that once was the way but not anymore, which is why I pointed out to the OP to check to see if he should have a warning that he is in a NFZ.
Sometimes it requires logic thinking, are you now saying that dji need to tell everybody where NFZ’s are including temporary ones, just in case you don’t get enough gps signal to take off.

Remember op had some gpssignals at take off, and shortly after first bout of Atti , he again had gps signals for almost 20 seconds with no warnings , I put the question to you how many gps signals do you need to receive a NFZ warning ?

hallmark007 Posted at 3-27 13:31
I think you will find that all changed in both phantom and Mavic Pro in 2017, it changed in Mavic Pro .600 FW 2017 .
I also think you will find that the minute you switch on your drone before you fire up your motors you will first get message that you cannot take off, you don’t have to wait to get 11 gps satellites before getting this message .
I also think you will find that the OP’s gps module was working when he turned craft on, are you telling me he must first get enough satellites to fly before he gets the warning or does his gps module just need to be turned on to receive messages.

I’m not presuming to know anything. Just interpreting what I see in the logs and what makes sense.  

I agree that the GPS system turns on as soon as the aircraft goes through it’s POST.  At that point it starts trying to acquire data. However, until it gets enough data, it can’t make any decisions.  

There isn’t a single Lat/Lon coordinate recorded in the log until 48.5 seconds into the flight.  At that point, the log shows 8 sats, but a gps level of 0 at that point.  Moments later at 49.9 secs, the gps level finally goes up to 1 bar and then a couple seconds later it goes 4 bars and then momentarily records the home point and subsequently moves into the landing sequence.  

Based on what’s seen here, I just don’t see how the aircraft could make any NFZ decisions until it gets a GPS signal good enough to determine a Lat/Lon position. In this flight, based on the logs, this appears to be no sooner than 48.5 seconds into the flight.

Also, just to be clear, ATTI mode has nothing to do with anything I’m saying.  The aircraft could be in ATTI mode due to compass issues and have very precise GPS location data.

KlooGee Posted at 3-27 14:07
I’m not presuming to know anything. Just interpreting what I see in the logs and what makes sense.  

I agree that the GPS system turns on as soon as the aircraft goes through it’s POST.  At that point it starts trying to acquire data. However, until it gets enough data, it can’t make any decisions.  

I’m not talking about here, I’m talking about what should happen, if you read article above you will see that it agrees with what I’m saying.
NFZ and geo fencing was totally changed back in April 2017 , I cannot find the notifications for it, but I do remember the big debacle of many not being able to fly indoors because they were in NFZ and this included those in opti Atti and gps modes, so while gps as you say should give a warning because it receives it with enough gps, how does this explain those not allowed to fly in Atti and opti mode ?

I still see people posting here they cannot fly inside their own house because the live in areas of major airports.
Now none of us know that he started in a NFZ or if he entered a NFZ , so saying his craft would not have taken off if he waited for correct amount of gps is Not correct, in fact this is why I mentioned to him that he might have a case here, particularly if craft is not supposed to take off in NFZ , there are no NFZ warnings that are sufficient for casual flyers, equally where does it tell us that you need full gps to know if your in a temporary NFZ and you will experience lock down.
But I know from experience that trying to take off in NFZ you will always get warning first before gps lock, and you either accept the risk or you are in lockdown depending on the NFZ you are in.

So with regards to OP, he has some questions for dji and we shouldn’t be telling him he didn’t receive NFZ warning because he didn’t wait for enough satellites and remember none of us has any clue how many sats are needed to receive messages .

why cant DJI come up with a better NFZ logic then autoland once it realizes its in an NFZ....  needs to be a better alternative than just letting the aircraft land.  


also, if anything this is why one should consider not taking off before GPS lock on their new drones..  that way if you are in an NFZ you can avoid  aircraft going in the drink or landing in who knows where...ya wont be able to fly but better than it being under water or landed somewhere far away..   

inb4 dji locks down takeoff pre-gps lock now..

As a ARMY vet that relied on the radio, I understand following instructions. I NEVER saw in the manual that you should not take off until you had a certain number of satellite connections. The software won't let you take off until it has communication with gps!  As always, I waited until the green bar said it was safe to take off!

Take a look at the video on the DJI Mavi Air page where it says "Take Flight in Seconds" https://www.dji.com/mavic-air/info#video         It does NOT say "wait until you have a certain number of satellites  before take off".  

cpt.randall@gma Posted at 3-27 18:06
As a ARMY vet that relied on the radio, I understand following instructions. I NEVER saw in the manual that you should not take off until you had a certain number of satellite connections. The software won't let you take off until it has communication with gps!  As always, I waited until the green bar said it was safe to take off!

Take a look at the video on the DJI Mavi Air page where it says "Take Flight in Seconds" https://www.dji.com/mavic-air/info#video         It does NOT say "wait until you have a certain number of satellites  before take off".

Hey, cpt.randall; I'm no pro, but having lost my brand-new MP recently and awaiting replacement, I've been immersed in the manual and forums.  I think your problem is that you did not wait for a Home Point Lock confirmation before you flew away.  It seems that to have a safe flight, one must first ascend to about 30' and wait until the controller says, "Home Point Recorded."  After this, it's pretty safe to fly away.  You did not get the confirmation in your fateful flight until 52 seconds after takeoff and I assume you were not just hovering above the takeoff point that whole time.


I think the instruction manual is unclear, the home point won't lock until you have already taken off and risen to a certain height.


Also, the second you see ATTI mode, do everything you can to land the drone anywhere you can and figure out what went wrong. ATTI means "attitude," I think this refers to the bad attitude your drone displays in this mode.

Hello Seniors and experts,
I have a question and could be a possible solution for DJI:
-> If a specific number of GPS sats AND setting the homepoint correctly, is so much mandatory for a safe flight and determining NFZ etc,
then why don't DJI implement such pre-req conditions in the software such as - if there are no 11+ GPS sats present OR if there is no proper Homepoint recorded OR if it detects a NFZ; then in such cases it shouldnt allow the drone to fly. Secondly, if the drone detects that the homepoint is set on a waterbody then it should give warning messages to the pilot to inform him that the homepoint is set on a waterbody and a caution msg.

Is there a specific reason why DJI hasnt implemented any such conditions? Is it to allow users to fly the drone in ATTI or OPTI mode only which in real case is dangerous and not worth?

Please clarify friends.
Thanks.

TechVoyager Posted at 3-27 22:32
Hello Seniors and experts,
I have a question and could be a possible solution for DJI:
-> If a specific number of GPS sats AND setting the homepoint correctly, is so much mandatory for a safe flight and determining NFZ etc,

That makes no sense because then you would not be able to fly in halls, houses etc. Or in other places where you want to fly but have no GPS.

Also, how would the drone determine if it's over water?

KlooGee Posted at 3-27 14:07
I’m not presuming to know anything. Just interpreting what I see in the logs and what makes sense.  

I agree that the GPS system turns on as soon as the aircraft goes through it’s POST.  At that point it starts trying to acquire data. However, until it gets enough data, it can’t make any decisions.  

Hi KlooGee,

i agree with you, your logic is the correct logic.

If a drone doesn`t receive GPS signals it does not know where its flying.
So NFZ ect or not, in ATTI / OPTI mode possible to takeoff and fly in such a zone.
Proof in the OP flightrecord.

BUT mayby mayby the software reads out also the GPS position of the mobile device.
(Proirity 1 Drone GPS, priortiy 2 device GPS)
If that`s the case than while standing in a NFZ it gives a warning ?? (nah, don-t think so, but have not tested this out)

Think the manual agree with us  :-) Only in P-mode....

Ofcourse on DJI drones where you can manually swicth to ATTI the GPS still receives data and is used for GEO zones, swithing to ATTI manually is not on a MA.

Cheers
JJB

akman2014 Posted at 3-27 21:55
Hey, cpt.randall; I'm no pro, but having lost my brand-new MP recently and awaiting replacement, I've been immersed in the manual and forums.  I think your problem is that you did not wait for a Home Point Lock confirmation before you flew away.  It seems that to have a safe flight, one must first ascend to about 30' and wait until the controller says, "Home Point Recorded."  After this, it's pretty safe to fly away.  You did not get the confirmation in your fateful flight until 52 seconds after takeoff and I assume you were not just hovering above the takeoff point that whole time.

Hi akman,

ATTI does not mean flying in a 'bad attitude' for a drone.

P-GPS > drone is stabilized by use of GPS signals, height hold by barometric sensor,
OPTI > drone is stabilized by use of visual sensors, height by VPS height sensor if within range.
ATTI > drone is no stabilized in its attitude, so manually stabilized by the operator, height by baro sensor.

cheers
JJB

saviour Posted at 3-27 22:40
That makes no sense because then you would not be able to fly in halls, houses etc. Or in other places where you want to fly but have no GPS.

Also, how would the drone determine if it's over water?

just a guess- cant it get the waterbody information from the maps data?

cpt.randall@gma Posted at 3-27 18:06
As a ARMY vet that relied on the radio, I understand following instructions. I NEVER saw in the manual that you should not take off until you had a certain number of satellite connections. The software won't let you take off until it has communication with gps!  As always, I waited until the green bar said it was safe to take off!

Take a look at the video on the DJI Mavi Air page where it says "Take Flight in Seconds" https://www.dji.com/mavic-air/info#video         It does NOT say "wait until you have a certain number of satellites  before take off".

Hi, I sometimes wonder about people who freely give out information on this site, and have no problems in finding pilot error, without giving you all the facts.

1/ if you take off without gps or weak gps your craft will be limited to height 16ft , in your case you can see the craft climbing to 18 ft 22ft 24ft so is this a malfunction in the aircraft or aircrafts softwear.

2/ you should get a warning your in a NFZ and although others say this is not the case, then let’s look at that, “You get no warning because weak gps yet weak gps allows you to fly above its limit of 16 ft “
In turn when turning on craft you will always get warning of NFZ immediately before sat count before homepoint is set and before go fly, then why is it when in the air you get message homepoint then landing then close to NFZ or in your case passing a NFZ.

It seems that those examining logs will do almost anything to get them to fit with their own logic and accept no other.

There are certain things your craft is supposed to do alongside your app, one is warn you of NFZ now if we are to believe those who adamantly say you didn’t receive message because of weak gps, then show me where it warns of this in any manual.
Two if your craft is not supposed to fly above 16ft in weak gps, and your log shows it has flown to 24ft, this is a malfunction and we know malfunctions are covered by warranty.

Don’t let others discourage you or tell you it was pilot error, one of those who are saying this have also said on this forum that it’s fine to take off with low number of satellites and defended this action.
Dji will make a decision on this andif they find pilot error then you should be entitled to know exactly why and if that’s the case I hope it’s explained correctly.

It’s my opinion that you flew craft fine particularly whenin Atti mode , your mistakes have been made by many of which by far a very high percentage of users have gotten away with and most of them still not aware of what they done.

Take a case with dji and I wish you luck.

I’ll give you an instance, a couple of weeks ago a member here put up his log, it was immediately examined and he was told that it was not his problem that it was a problem of motor failure.
But on closer inspection is was noticed by another member that it had crashed into a tree and this is what caused motor failure, this is how logs can be easily analyzed wrong, lol

And lastly Atti or attitude has nothing to do with being bad, in fact when we address some as having attitude it is usually associated with how confident they are .

Hi forum members,

If you like to know the answer to the number 1 remark in post #48.

If GPS is weak and you start to fly, drone will fly in OPTI / ATTI.
When flying in OPTI/ATTI away from your take-off position (don`t do this ofcourse, mayby hover at the spot but do not fly way) there is a height limit.
Height limited to 5 (16ft) or 30(98ft) meters (downward vision system activated /downward vision system inactivated)

If this height is reached a warning is seen in the app.
Depending of app version this to be seen: "Max Altitude Approached. Wait for the GPS satellite signal recovery before ascend."
or
"Maximum Flight Altitude Reached. Adjust altitude in MC Settings if required."


Not possible to fly above this height.
But when during this flight some satellites are 'incoming' the height limit will go away....(happening in OP flight)
I do not know if that is what the DJI software engineers had in mind but it is happening and the drone is still flying in OPTI/ ATTI.
So not enough satellites and reception for a P-GPS mode, but enough to kill the height limit.

How i know, well see my test video about this.  link = (on spark, cannot switchoff downward sensor = 5 meter limit)

So nothing wrong with the drone/software of the OP post #1. and conclusing #2 is than ofcourse not valid anymore.

If someone thinks that i think that loosing this drone is a Pilot error and nothing else?
Nah, it was not wise to do to takeoff with less sats and bad gps reception.
Autolanding because of flying in a NFZ, read my opinion on that in the above postings. And ofcourse its Ok to have different opinions about things on a open forum.
As always DJI has the last words, and i see many times that they are doing OK in helping customers and replace drone if the fault is not by the OP.

Always nice to have a discussion on this forum about knowledge and not about attitude.

cheers
JJB

thats horrible, sorry for yr loss. it is easy to make some assumptions based on the screen shot provided but if you post yr logs then perhaps we can see what happened