120ccpm Posted at 3-21 10:31
this is more about trying to save some face rather than saving anyone’s drones

You got me, Dr. Phil

You got me, Dr. Phil



Classy!

I see the troll baiting has started again .


“Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.”

""....................

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ABeardedItalian Posted at 3-21 06:02
https://mavicpilotsDOTcom/threads/mavic-mini-re-enable-developer-tools-in-dji-assistant-2.77216/

DJI released a tool for experienced pilots to modify the params of their drones, it's not for the avg consumer because you can damage your drone and it won't be covered by warranty.  This isn't really a work around, more of DJI changed formats and it broke a lot of the old stuff and they never updated it. So by Jerry rigging the old software or updating it like I'm in the process of it's DJI's own tools to modify there drones.

What is taking so long for you to do it?

I think someone managed to do it right.

Summing up counter arguments.
1) There is no need.
2) People need only read manual.
3) Faster airspeed (more tilt & higher rpms) will run battery down quicker.
4) Idea of changing RTH to allow Sport mode capability hasn't been proven to save Mavic Minis.

1) There is a need when one considers Mavic Mini's RTH is limited to less than average wind speeds and is less than Mavc Pro, Mavic Air, and Mavic 2.  Along with Mavic Mini's being lost due to it being restricted to Normal mode, instead of Sports mode.

2) Manual is less than clear with its statements on wind.  Mavic Mini's flight speeds needed to be in terms DJI's targeted buyer could relate too.  And as some have previously stated DJI's manuals have in some cases conflicted.  Then there is reality, some hobbist pilots of Mavic Pro, Mavic Air, and Mavic 2 don't fully read the manual or have trouble with DJI's writing of manuals.

3) How signicant faster run down of battery would be is open to debate.  One thing is for sure - Mavic Mini fighting a head wind and making no progress or loosing ground, is going to run out of battery power, and never return to home.

4) A Catch-22 counter argument.  You got to prove it will save Mavic Minis, before we (on counter side) will entertain possibilty of changing Mavic Mini's RTH capabilites to fight wind.  Never mind, you can't test possibility of saving Mavic Minis, cause capability is not there, and changes required are not allowed.   Put this kind of non-think, right up there with you can't borrow a sailing ship, cause you will sail off edge of Earth.

Sometimes I don't. If I like a moment, for me, personally, I don't like to have the distraction of the camera. I just want to stay in it.
The Secret Life of Walter Mitty

Always stuck in the middle, with no Skin in the game

AntDX316 Posted at 3-21 14:28
What is taking so long for you to do it?

I think someone managed to do it right.

A lack of interest really. I was reading this thread one day and googled DJI Firmware Hack to see what people have done and what's available, I stumbled upon a wiki talking about the phantom series all the way up to the spark. This is where I learned about DJI Assistant and it's old functionality, I was curious and went down the rabbit hole and found a lot of cool things. I learned DJI Assistant is an Electron App, learned how to extract/compile asar files, how to connect and communicate to the mini, and found others who have made further progress on this.

I was only interested in seeing what was possible and to shut some people up in this thread, I never had any intention to modify my own mini outside of maybe wanting to experiment with changing the RTH speed but I don't have a need to modify it right now.

I'm also not a developer/coder, my knowledge of python and how they have connected is past me at the moment. I could ask for clarification but I'm not in a hurry to do anything. My updating has been nothing more then compiling the app.asar file with the missing files and comparing existing js files to see what changed and needs modifying. Yes you need to know how to read these files to work with them but that's about all I have, I can get around for my needs but past that....

Lots of back and forth on something that to me seems like DJI has already accounted for.  If you need a bit of extra speed in RTH to get back safely, just push the right stick (mode 2) forward and you get the sport mode tilt and speed.

KlooGee Posted at 3-22 11:01
Lots of back and forth on something that to me seems like DJI has already accounted for.  If you need a bit of extra speed in RTH to get back safely, just push the right stick (mode 2) forward and you get the sport mode tilt and speed.

Unless the reason for rth is a disconnect

Modding w/ what people have done that works can be great.  Used to mod things way back unlocking potentials that have been governed by the manufacturer.  Unlocked more Mhz and shaders from video cards back then w/ conductive pencil tracing.  Unlocked other cards by flashing modded firmware.  Unlocked BMW features that were locked out from the US version that were only enabled on the EU version.


The lights only high-beam and low-beam but with coding you can make them do that.  Many, many, many other things in life that if you are led the right direction after knowing it's existence you can get far more gains than leaving everything as they are though, if done wrong (incomplete or incomplete understanding of how to handle) can lead to turmoil and demise.

KlooGee Posted at 3-22 11:01
Lots of back and forth on something that to me seems like DJI has already accounted for.  If you need a bit of extra speed in RTH to get back safely, just push the right stick (mode 2) forward and you get the sport mode tilt and speed.

Did you delete the 65mph+ video or have it somewhere?

Guorium Posted at 3-21 06:22
For any vehicle (except for those in vacuum generally speaking), there is a max fuel efficiency speed. It is probably P mode max speed 28.8kph for mini. I am just guessing. Following my logic, S mode does get you home faster but at the cost of worse fuel efficiency. I suspect it is why DJI has made failsafe RTH speed not the max speed for drones including the mini for the efficiency reason. But from a "what people should do" point of view, I think DJI will not do anything because to lose your drone a gust while having no connection sounds highly like pilot error.

I do like DJI to increase the failsafe rth speed so the users who  do the right thing but are unlucky enough to lose connection and get caught in an unpredictable gust can still be saved by this easy quality of life change from DJI. We do not have to have it if we choose our flights sensibly. It is just a very easy insurance for very unlikely scenario. Certainly not worse 100+ replies in a single post...

I suspect it is why DJI has made failsafe RTH speed not the max speed for drones including the mini for the efficiency reason.
Although fuel efficiency is a popular guess explanation, it's not correct.

Since the RTH speed is much less than the most fuel- efficient speed, the choice of a slow RTH speed is not for fuel efficiency reasons.
Given any reasonable headwind, the slow RTH speed of all DJI drones is a liablility and can lead to loss of drones carelessly flown off downwind and losing signal.

In six years on forums, I've heard plenty of guesses at why DJI set the slow RTH speed, but never a convincing explanation.
None of them made any sense.

Dirty Bird Posted at 3-23 04:59
I think it boils down to an arbitrary decision in the early days.  10 m/s was a nice, round number, just beyond the center of the Phantom's speed range.  For some models, with the 10 m/s Obstacle Avoidance limit, it does make sense.

That's as good an answer as any.
For some models, with the 10 m/s Obstacle Avoidance limit, it does make sense.
It does ... but DJI settled on 10m/s long before obstacle avoidance was heard of for drones.

Labroides Posted at 3-23 05:36
That's as good an answer as any.
For some models, with the 10 m/s Obstacle Avoidance limit, it does make sense.
It does ... but DJI settled on 10m/s long before obstacle avoidance was heard of for drones.

I think the 10M/S May have something to do with craft flying no longer under the control of user, so limit the speed, this would account for loss of signal Rth and being able to increase speed in normal Rth covers craft still under control of user , my tuppence

AntDX316 Posted at 3-22 16:18
Did you delete the 65mph+ video or have it somewhere?

Nope, its still there.  Not sure it is very useful to this discussion though since it was uncontrolled, exceeding the limits of the gimbal, and most importantly, losing altitude.

Dirty Bird Posted at 3-22 10:13
Not sure how your post is intended to silence anyone?  It points to a thread where a few people have managed rudimentary access with little to show in the way of actual results.  Certainly very few Mini owners possess the skills or desire to risk bricking their bird fumbling around blindly in the settings.

On their latest firmware revisions the Mavic 2 & Mini are not easily modified.   This is why I still love the Mavic Pro.  With it the world is your oyster.

None of my previous posts in this thread have been to silence anyone, I was intending to follow suit and modify my mini to fly at 32MPH and share the video of it. The goal was to end the whole "It can, but it doesn't" argument, we all know if you increase the pitch that's more work for the motors, higher amp draw, and a fast way to kill the battery.

I come from a similar place as Ant in the Hobby/Diy space where nothing was smart, DJI drones are apple products in the sense that it just works. We didn't have that luxury and know from doing it ourselves that it is certainly possible. I purchased my mini for one of those reasons that it just works as I'm tired of having to mess with calibration and settings and just want to fly and take pictures/videos.

You say few posses the skills or desire to modify there drones yet I took on this project for the heck of it because it seemed like a neat task. DJI had a tool at one point that you connected your drone and you could modify settings as easily as picking a song in spotify. The guy's doing it through Python are doing it crudely but it cuts the line and is a direct connection. If you read that thread you would see that commands have to be sent encrypted. This whole thing is like if you owned a 3d printer and was sending G-code manually, if you enter something like "m501111" it's not a known command and doesn't do anything just like whats being sent. We can't brick what's going on more then setting the  incorrect pitch to 90 degrees and flying it straight into a wall.

Sure not a lot of people have the desire to do so or go the lengths that I have but for every person that likes to have a skin to add some personality to what they own people will want to tweak things under the hood. DJI could update that tool instead and it would be just as easy as picking a song to change the RTH Pitch or Cine Pitch for faster CINE shots. This has nothing to do with the firmware and more to do with having tools that can communicate to the drone's FC (Flight Controller) and modify what's written in memory.

I'll be posting back when I get some time to fool around with it proper but aside from setting a new RTH speed as I mentioned above increasing the max pitch in Cine/tripod mode would make for some really cool accelerated zoom shots that don't have to be modified in post. I've only begone to scrub through all the Params that can be modified but the cine is a simple practical example of why someone would want to modify there experience.

KlooGee Posted at 3-23 07:51
Nope, its still there.  Not sure it is very useful to this discussion though since it was uncontrolled, exceeding the limits of the gimbal, and most importantly, losing altitude.

2:41
65mph+!


If you are able to have no angular limits and remove all restrictions (maximum power with no speed limits), no doubt it can do 65mph+ then.  

Labroides Posted at 3-23 04:45
I suspect it is why DJI has made failsafe RTH speed not the max speed for drones including the mini for the efficiency reason.
Although fuel efficiency is a popular guess explanation, it's not correct.

"In six years on forums, I've heard plenty of guesses at why DJI set the slow RTH speed, but never a convincing explanation. None of them made any sense."

Needless to say, DJI never bothered to explain this, or any other puzzling decisions they've made with particular drone parameters setup. What's even more puzzling, however, is the phenomenal willingness to continue this discussion, endlessly repeating still the same arguments based on not educated guesses. Quarantine boredom ?...

AntDX316 Posted at 3-23 12:40
2:41
65mph+!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDqqW0aVUYY

Dude, seriously, you need to stop this 65mph thing, it’s beyond ridiculous. Did you notice it was also dropping at 35mph?! That’s why it was so fast, it was *falling* out of the sky.

Ice_2k Posted at 3-23 13:11
Dude, seriously, you need to stop this 65mph thing, it’s beyond ridiculous. Did you notice it was also dropping at 35mph?! That’s why it was so fast, it was *falling* out of the sky.

how fast do you think the mini can go?

AntDX316 Posted at 3-23 12:40
2:41
65mph+!

If you are able to have no angular limits and remove all restrictions (maximum power with no speed limits), no doubt it can do 65mph+ then.
If you're understanding of physics comes from watching Roadrunner cartoons, you might believe that.
But in the real world if you tilted a Mini that much, it will not be able to provide enough lift to keep itself in the air.
The only direction your Mini would go is straight down.

Dirty Bird Posted at 3-24 04:36
"I was only interested in what was possible and to shut some people up in this thread"

Perhaps I misunderstood your intent but this is the quote from your post to which I replied.  

Do you feel targeted or something? My intentions were to post a video to end the conversation at the time but life gets in the way of things, it was never targeted at any particular person.

I never suggested that everyone should risk modding their mini's, I was pointing out to the person who was making the most noise about not being able to modify it that it could and can be done.

I consider myself to be techy, someone who can replace the glass on their smartphone type of handy. I understand what's going on so for me it's no different then being in the windows registry but, I do agree a novice shouldn't be poking around where they don't belong unless they understand the risk that's involved. You don't just have experience, everyone starts somewhere and from modding roms on phones to connecting via python to play with params of the mini. If you're technically inclined and handy then the world is your oyster, and yes getting into something like an ardunio would be a lot simpler and safer to learn on but that's not often what gets people interested in the first place. Like someone wanting to repair a mac book, a raspberry pi is a lot easier to learn on but some people start with the broken mac book.

So like, is there going to be a Mavic mini solutions from DJI or a workaround to save people from losing their Mini under high-wind conditions or the continuation of new people coming to the forum or not crying their drone has been lost? Place bets?

I haven't kept up to date with this, did they update the RTH performance?

We also have another "game" going with the coronavirus in parallel.  We can tack on many other issues too that also exist in life.  Trusts and ignorance is how the world will work with peace because if all vulnerabilities were known, some would die in panic.

Labroides Posted at 3-23 16:11
If you are able to have no angular limits and remove all restrictions (maximum power with no speed limits), no doubt it can do 65mph+ then.
If you're understanding of physics comes from watching Roadrunner cartoons, you might believe that.
But in the real world if you tilted a Mini that much, it will not be able to provide enough lift to keep itself in the air.

Well if you were high enough and went inverted at 45° at full speed to home point you could probably pull 80mph?  There is nothing anyone can do if the drone is limited to a certain angle.  You have to be in "acro" mode to have no limit.  We can speculate what would happen forever but until that is removed then the actual limit is whatever is set at the flight computer.

Dirty Bird Posted at 3-24 13:52
No I did not feel personally targeted.  This is a frustrating subject as this is at least the fifth or sixth iteration beating the same dead horse.  Worse, there are some who appear to be operating in an alternative reality, insisting the Mini can fly at speeds of 65-80 mph.

The mini will never fly at 65-80Mph, what Ant is talking about is if the mini had Acro mode (360 degree rotation). If you were high enough and pitched forward far enough you would be using gravity to help accelerate the mini. It's not technically flying and more falling toward the direction you were heading, it's a technique in acro flying to let gravity do the work, you fly fast upward and kill the motors and free fall back down and then ramp to 100% power to pull out. In kloogee's video you can see the mini falling while still flying in a direction and levels itself out, Ant continues to talk about how it could if it had Acro mode.

Here's what Acro flying looks like, notice how the motors are stopped before max altituide and spun up after falling for a second or two? That's how the mini would be able to "fly" faster, we can kind of do this already Just by flying up 30 feet and emergancy stoping the motors. You will quickly "fly" faster then 30mph................... Straight into the garbage bin.



Does anyone know if you can spin up the motors again after pressing the emerganacy stop button?

Dirty Bird Posted at 3-24 19:39
Yes, but the Mini is not an acro bird.  The gimbal goes limp as soon as the bird tilts more than 45-50° so what would be the point?   The only way the Mini achieves those speeds is essentially while crashing or in freefall.  If one wants an acro quad then why not buy a bird designed as such?

The purpose of this thread is ostensibly about increasing RTH speed to babysit for careless operators.  That it has been taken to the extreme with Ant insisting the Mini can do 65-80 mph in a controlled crash I find somewhat bizarre.

No one said the mini is an acro bird, Ant asked if it "Could" if in some universe the mini had acro mode how fast could the mini fall/fly. What Ant brought up and has taken the topic in a different direction can be solved with math but I suck at math so someone else can chime in.

We know the mini weighs 249g, how far would it have to fall before it reached terminal velocity and what's the speed of which the object will be falling at. Now add that value to the drones max speed of 30mph and we now know how fast the mini could fall/fly at.

The mini does have FPV mode which locks the gimbal to a fixed position which is how most FPV drones are setup, I plan on upgrading to a tablet at some point and might go this route for the FPV immersion I miss. https://forum.dji.com/thread-211265-1-1.html

Dirty Bird Posted at 3-25 11:01
I can run at 122 mph if I leap from a 1500' building.

Maybe you should let Ant test that first , just to be sure if he generates that speed it’s up to you then, ;+):::

As much as I have been in favor of increasing the RTH tilt to S-Mode levels, I find the current discussion a bit pointless... even if the MM can do 65mph (which I find very hard to believe), that's completely outside of its intended purpose, which is aerial photography. Asking DJI to give Failsafe RTH the same chance to bring home the AC as an experienced pilot would, seems reasonable to me. Asking for FPV-racer performance is another thing altogether.

I can't possibly read all 6 pages of this give and take. There is just no point. The pros will always disagree with the cons and vice versa. It seems to me that if proof is needed all one member would have to do is perform a flight in a very windy condition using a large flat safe area in which to recover it. Fly it downwind and press RTH. If it does not make progress, take over manually in S mode and see if that helps.

HedgeTrimmer Posted at 3-20 05:06
"I used to compete in competive archery at a college level using very sharp broadheads."

Why need for "very sharp broadheads"?  3D target shooting?

Oops, I did not see your question before. We normally used target tips but did have one
"field" contest where "Bolo" style hunting tips with concave edges were used. It was a bit more of a challenge as you might suspect, especially when windy.

Mods please close this post tried of hearing this nonsense

ABeardedItalian Posted at 3-25 08:55
No one said the mini is an acro bird, Ant asked if it "Could" if in some universe the mini had acro mode how fast could the mini fall/fly. What Ant brought up and has taken the topic in a different direction can be solved with math but I suck at math so someone else can chime in.

We know the mini weighs 249g, how far would it have to fall before it reached terminal velocity and what's the speed of which the object will be falling at. Now add that value to the drones max speed of 30mph and we now know how fast the mini could fall/fly at.

We know the mini weighs 249g, how far would it have to fall before it  reached terminal velocity and what's the speed of which the object will  be falling at. Now add that value to the drones max speed of 30mph and  we now know how fast the mini could fall/fly at.

I haven't seen data for a Mini in freefall but all other Mavics and Phantoms have a terminal velocity in the mid 30s-40 mph range.

ABeardedItalian Posted at 3-24 17:37
The mini will never fly at 65-80Mph, what Ant is talking about is if the mini had Acro mode (360 degree rotation). If you were high enough and pitched forward far enough you would be using gravity to help accelerate the mini. It's not technically flying and more falling toward the direction you were heading, it's a technique in acro flying to let gravity do the work, you fly fast upward and kill the motors and free fall back down and then ramp to 100% power to pull out. In kloogee's video you can see the mini falling while still flying in a direction and levels itself out, Ant continues to talk about how it could if it had Acro mode.

Here's what Acro flying looks like, notice how the motors are stopped before max altituide and spun up after falling for a second or two? That's how the mini would be able to "fly" faster, we can kind of do this already Just by flying up 30 feet and emergancy stoping the motors. You will quickly "fly" faster then 30mph................... Straight into the garbage bin.

Power loops are the best example.  If you do it right you do not chop the throttle at the peak of the loop, you chop it off around 75% of the loop otherwise you float in the air and this is not what you want.

I think in the video he doesn't chop it at 75% but if you chop it at 75% w/ a powerful quad your risks of crashing go up significantly but the speed would be much faster.  If someone could model a scientific graph for us to see it would be cool.  Basically, if you are 180° from take-off and you go full throttle you accelerate w/ gravity assist so I assume you should be able to exceed terminal velocity (not mini but something more powerful of course or else we will end up with a few unnecessary comments saying how the mini cannot fly 150-180mph+ etc).

Ice_2k Posted at 3-15 01:14
A 31mph drone handles 29mph winds “like it’s no big deal”? That sounds highly unlikely to me.

Spark 30mph winds.  Opticalflow and constant editing ruined the quality.  I was an extreme novice.

AntDX316 Posted at 3-25 18:53


Spark 30mph winds.  Opticalflow and constant editing ruined the quality.  I was an extreme novice.

Spark 30mph winds.
Your video title says 25 mph, now you say 30 mph
In sport Mode your Spark could only fly at 1mph against a 30 mph wind.
But the water surface says the wind speed is 10-12 mph max.
You are so full of crap.

I was an extreme novice.
And you think you've improved since then?

Labroides Posted at 3-25 19:09
Spark 30mph winds.
Your video title says 25 mph, now you say 30 mph
In sport Mode your Spark could only fly at 1mph against a 30 mph wind.

It was gusting but it was 25-26mph constant at the weather.

"I was an extreme novice.
And you think you've improved since then?"

Download for 60fps.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1XTfv3WJNuN2oYlUW37eYJwUv6ZS-awGt

Saying if flying DJI drones is a challenge is like saying if riding a bicycle is challenging when I have an R6.

A good example is 0:27 on the 1108 video.  When you go inverted and power up you get more speed.  I'm still not very good as I just finished getting the tunes right.  I was on 1022° linear no expos on all the rate of pitch, roll, yaw.  Very very very fun couple of minutes you can have flying tbh.

AntDX316 Posted at 3-25 19:12
It was gusting but it was 25-26mph constant at the weather.

"I was an extreme novice.

It was gusting but it was 25-26mph constant at the weather.
You can say that but the the water surface in your video tells a different story.
The wind speed was 10-12 mph

Saying if flying DJI drones is a challenge is like saying if riding a bicycle is challenging when I have an R6.
My hovercraft is full of eels

Labroides Posted at 3-25 19:19
It was gusting but it was 25-26mph constant at the weather.
You can say that but the the water surface in your video tells a different story.
The wind speed was 10-12 mph

It was 100% not 10-12mph.  The GoPro that was sitting on top of the RAV4 during 2 time lapses in the video was getting blown around.

This is why I need to attach the forecast picture for next time.

Looks like that gimbal 3rd axis would have come in handy there ;-)