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The batteries are no longer discharged... --- current status
1686 31 2021-10-23
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frankymusik
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... current status see #20...
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The batteries are no longer discharged in a controlled manner after the update ...


I immediately loaded the current firmware (v01.01.06.70) of the Mavic Air 2 and "refreshed" all three batteries accordingly with this new firmware.

All three batteries now - after approx. 8 days - still show the full charge (all 4 LEDs light up permanently when the button is pressed briefly).
As far as I know, it has always been very important that the batteries discharge themselves to about 65% after about 6 days ...

What did the update do?
Has DJI "changed" something, set a different time for this controlled self-discharge?

Has anyone noticed the same thing?

2021-10-23
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Peo
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Same here. hmm
2021-10-24
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DAFlys
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Ive noticed that after app updates the defaults for the batteries discharge time often change.   Have you checked what yours are set to.
2021-10-24
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DowntownRDB
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Hmmm, I just checked and my MA2 batteries are still 95% and haven't been charged in the last 7 days.  I'm not sure why DJI can't release updates that fix things and not introduce new bugs.  

For now, I'll just discharge the batteries myself.
2021-10-24
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frankymusik
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DAFlys Posted at 10-24 00:19
Ive noticed that after app updates the defaults for the batteries discharge time often change.   Have you checked what yours are set to.

Hi DAFlys,
now I was really a bit "unsettled" and searched the Fly app again thoroughly ...

Are you really sure that there is something to be adjusted in this regard? With the MA2 ...

Or maybe another DJI drone?

If you have another tip, please let me know ...

2021-10-24
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DAFlys
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frankymusik Posted at 10-24 05:14
Hi DAFlys,
now I was really a bit "unsettled" and searched the Fly app again thoroughly ...

Maybe im getting confused but for the M2P there is a setting for days to discharge and I thought Id seen that in the fly app too.  Its under batteries IIRC.
2021-10-24
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frankymusik
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DAFlys Posted at 10-24 06:16
Maybe im getting confused but for the M2P there is a setting for days to discharge and I thought Id seen that in the fly app too.  Its under batteries IIRC.

... I see.

Probably this was possible with the Pro series ...
2021-10-24
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DAFlys
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frankymusik Posted at 10-24 06:36
... I see.

Probably this was possible with the Pro series ...

Next time I have it out I'll check.   
2021-10-24
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Rustic17
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I have a Hanatora 4xbattery charger that charges all four simultaneously.  It also has a discharge feature that takes fully charged batteries down to 50-60%.  Last night I fully charged four batteries and today I had to cancel flying so I tried to discharge them but they wouldn't!!!.  After 3 hours they were still 4 lights.
2021-10-24
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Rustic17
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DowntownRDB Posted at 10-24 03:15
Hmmm, I just checked and my MA2 batteries are still 95% and haven't been charged in the last 7 days.  I'm not sure why DJI can't release updates that fix things and not introduce new bugs.  

For now, I'll just discharge the batteries myself.

The only way I've been able to discharge is by actual flying.  It's very inconvenient when I have a battery charger that also discharges...see Hanatora 4 Battery Charger for Mavic Air 2.
2021-10-24
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bjr981s
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The days were extended in this release to a stupid number of days. I complained bitterly that this was a stupid idea in the version releases thread.  The longer the battery stays at full charge the more damage is done to the battery. 24 hours should be the max it stays at full charge.
2021-10-24
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frankymusik
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bjr981s Posted at 10-24 21:31
The days were extended in this release to a stupid number of days. I complained bitterly that this was a stupid idea in the version releases thread.  The longer the battery stays at full charge the more damage is done to the battery. 24 hours should be the max it stays at full charge.
Hi bjr981s,

so far I hadn't found anything on this subject.
That's why I was very "shocked" that no automatic unloading has taken place so far, not even today, on the 10th day ...

Could you please give a note where you read something about increasing the number of days until discharging starts?

I would like to experience for myself that something is still taking place ...


2021-10-25
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JimDandy
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bjr981s Posted at 10-24 21:31
The days were extended in this release to a stupid number of days. I complained bitterly that this was a stupid idea in the version releases thread.  The longer the battery stays at full charge the more damage is done to the battery. 24 hours should be the max it stays at full charge.

24 hours is a not a maximum time that lipo chemistry should be at a full charge.  Maybe a personal preference, and I agree with that. I do personally like to fly a charged pack the same day I charge it.  I've been flying FPV for since it's inception. Long before DJI was a player.  Battery technology has come a long way since then. Now it is true that lipos don't tolerate a full charge for long periods of time. It breaks down the internal resistance of the the cells, and they loose the ability to discharge properly under load. They end up weakened, and with a shorter service life. However. 24 hours is no maximum measure. 1 week has been the guideline for a long time now, before needing to put the packs in a safe charge mode. None, (zero) of my FPV packs have a feature to discharge them form some sort of internal clock. I keep notes on the 15 packs I have to fly with, and I use the charger I have to bring the cells, Notice I said cells, and not pack, to a storage voltage. That storage voltage is 3.81-3.85 volts per cell. (CELL). NEVER discharge a cell below 3.7 volts! This is how so many early packs puffed and caught fire. Over discharging is as bad, if not worse than over charging.  I've puffed a lot of Lipo packs in the past before being educated on what they truly need to serve a long and happy life. This is why DJI has circuity built in to discharge after 5 days. Now why this has changed with the new update is beyond me. But now that I understand It is a problem, I'll "Hover" each pack at the end of my flight, until I see the CELL voltage reach 3.8 under load. Then I'll land. My FPV lipo packs do recover a bit after landing and cooing a bit. Usually shows 4.0 volts per cell with a cell checker. I have FPV packs that are 3 years old with over 100 flights on them. Still working great today. DJI packs will be no different. Do yourself a big favor. Charge, fly (same day if you wish), before landing pull up the battery info screen in the app and land when the cells get to 3.8 volts. Forget about the silly % of battery left. That is just a quick reference. Go by cell voltage. 3.8 while in a hover or slow flight, set her down. Your packs will be happy.
2021-10-25
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DowntownRDB
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Rustic17 Posted at 10-24 17:24
The only way I've been able to discharge is by actual flying.  It's very inconvenient when I have a battery charger that also discharges...see Hanatora 4 Battery Charger for Mavic Air 2.

Agreed.  Would be nice if the batteries auto-discharged as they were designed to do.  
2021-10-25
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EmpieDrone
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Same Here. Yesterday after about one week the batteries were only to 95% discharged. I sometimes discharge the batteries myself with the DJI Battery to Power Bank Adaptor. So you can charge your phone or remote. Maybe better and more healthier for the batteries  than a third party charger <> discharger....

2021-10-25
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scubaAnn
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Uhhhhh, going to check mine now.  Thanks for info.
2021-10-25
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virtual
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It is inauspicious to miss the detailed change log for the update!
2021-10-25
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KlooGee
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It sounds like they implemented the same thing to the Mavic Air 2 that they had included in the Air 2S firmware v02.04.20.40.  Although I'm not a fan of this due to the battery problems I've had with Mavic 2, it does make some sort of sense if they implemented it on the Air 2S, they would also implement it on the Air 2 since they share the same exact battery.  It also is not cool that they have not documented the change if that is in fact the case.
https://dl.djicdn.com/downloads/ ... elease_Notes_en.pdf




2021-10-25
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Rustic17
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Rustic17 Posted at 10-24 17:24
The only way I've been able to discharge is by actual flying.  It's very inconvenient when I have a battery charger that also discharges...see Hanatora 4 Battery Charger for Mavic Air 2.

My error...I was inserting the batteries incorrectly into the Hanatora.  They need to be powered ON before inserting into the charger.  The batteries are now being discharged on the unit.  When the battery reaches 11.5-11.9 volts it will stop discharging the battery.  I can discharge four batteries simultaneously.
2021-10-25
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frankymusik
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KlooGee Posted at 10-25 08:23
It sounds like they implemented the same thing to the Mavic Air 2 that they had included in the Air 2S firmware v02.04.20.40.  Although I'm not a fan of this due to the battery problems I've had with Mavic 2, it does make some sort of sense if they implemented it on the Air 2S, they would also implement it on the Air 2 since they share the same exact battery.  It also is not cool that they have not documented the change if that is in fact the case.
https://dl.djicdn.com/downloads/DJI_Air_2S/1014/DJI_Air_2S_Release_Notes_en.pdf

Good news so far ...

yesterday evening the auto-discharge of the batteries actually started! (... it was probably 10 days after the last full charge ...)

DJI should of course inform all users of this battery type that they have changed something.
And, they should have explained why they made this change ...

Does this "improve" the life of the cells used? Such information would not only be desirable, but urgently required!

If this extension does not harm the battery in any way (if it has been proven), then this could also be described as an "improvement" ...
But, if you don't get any confirmation in this regard, then you just fear for the lifespan of these quite expensive parts .....

2021-10-25
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virtual
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To share my experience - I'm using third party charger with storage mode option in case I know I won‘t be flying in near future (DJI charger for full recharge). Two solid and third blinking LED used to light at storage voltage, now only two solid LEDs... Two batteries flown with new fw and flight time and other characteristic looks about the same.
Prior to update I had my HD photos synchronized to Google gallery (panos had to be downloaded manually), now they are not despite the in app settings, I have to check app options.
2021-10-27
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DaMa
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Maybe bad for the consumer, maybe good for the producer. It is up to everyone to take care for the batteries or not.
2021-10-27
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MySky
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So now it is equal to the mini2 batteries.
I know it should be selectable by the user according to their needs, but over all some complain that the time was too short and some it is too long.
For me it is quiet right especially when on a roadtrip with our RV and that for the Mini2 and Air2 it is now the same time.
Now i do not have to care on different days for the charging status.
2021-10-27
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frankymusik
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MySky Posted at 10-27 09:53
So now it is equal to the mini2 batteries.
I know it should be selectable by the user according to their needs, but over all some complain that the time was too short and some it is too long.
For me it is quiet right especially when on a roadtrip with our RV and that for the Mini2 and Air2 it is now the same time.

For some time now I have kept a calendar (made of paper, hangs on the wall), in which I always immediately enter when I freshly charged which battery.
It makes perfect sense to clearly number the batteries so that the overview is not lost.
5 batteries of the DJI FPV drone and 3 batteries of the MA2, it is good if you know at a glance what to do before going on new excursions ...

Now there are (for me) different timers that run in the batteries ...
Mini 2 and MA2 are now the same, in this respect, as I learned from #24 (above) ...

I would have always wished that the "self-discharge" could be started in a targeted manner (by a special operation of the battery switch) in order to be able to plan the day of the recharge even better later ...

2021-10-27
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bjr981s
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JimDandy Posted at 10-25 01:57
24 hours is a not a maximum time that lipo chemistry should be at a full charge.  Maybe a personal preference, and I agree with that. I do personally like to fly a charged pack the same day I charge it.  I've been flying FPV for since it's inception. Long before DJI was a player.  Battery technology has come a long way since then. Now it is true that lipos don't tolerate a full charge for long periods of time. It breaks down the internal resistance of the the cells, and they loose the ability to discharge properly under load. They end up weakened, and with a shorter service life. However. 24 hours is no maximum measure. 1 week has been the guideline for a long time now, before needing to put the packs in a safe charge mode. None, (zero) of my FPV packs have a feature to discharge them form some sort of internal clock. I keep notes on the 15 packs I have to fly with, and I use the charger I have to bring the cells, Notice I said cells, and not pack, to a storage voltage. That storage voltage is 3.81-3.85 volts per cell. (CELL). NEVER discharge a cell below 3.7 volts! This is how so many early packs puffed and caught fire. Over discharging is as bad, if not worse than over charging.  I've puffed a lot of Lipo packs in the past before being educated on what they truly need to serve a long and happy life. This is why DJI has circuity built in to discharge after 5 days. Now why this has changed with the new update is beyond me. But now that I understand It is a problem, I'll "Hover" each pack at the end of my flight, until I see the CELL voltage reach 3.8 under load. Then I'll land. My FPV lipo packs do recover a bit after landing and cooing a bit. Usually shows 4.0 volts per cell with a cell checker. I have FPV packs that are 3 years old with over 100 flights on them. Still working great today. DJI packs will be no different. Do yourself a big favor. Charge, fly (same day if you wish), before landing pull up the battery info screen in the app and land when the cells get to 3.8 volts. Forget about the silly % of battery left. That is just a quick reference. Go by cell voltage. 3.8 while in a hover or slow flight, set her down. Your packs will be happy.

Actually its 0 hours. The LiPo as opposed to Lion is under major stress at full charge. Ideally they should be charged and flown as soon as they cool down then put on storage as soon as they again cool down. 24 hours is what i consider to be an appropriate time I charge overnight, fly and then return to storage when I return from the club. I fly Ducted fan jets and the batteries are expensive and you need many I have over 200 LiPos. They get checked every 6 months in storage. DJI batteries must be checked every 3 months. Don't trust the 4 lights if you check. They will show 2 lights but that was the battery status at the time it self discharged. If you put it on a charge or turn the battery on it will go down to 1 light in 3 months. The monitoring hardware puts a slow drain on the battery.

Yes hold them at full charge fort any length of time will cause swelling and reduce the number of cycles available.

The DJI Battery meter in the Go 4 and Fly app is not accurate and doe not represent the battery charge status. DJI recommend a full drain (Not good for the battery) and a full recharge every 3 months. This is to calibrate the battery sensor with Watt Hours absorbed.

if this is not done the remaining battery level will not be accurate.  As some have experienced with the battery going from 50% remaining to zero in a matter of seconds.

LiPos are great but they do require care and feeding.

Cheers
   
2021-10-31
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bjr981s
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frankymusik Posted at 10-25 23:06
Good news so far ...

yesterday evening the auto-discharge of the batteries actually started! (... it was probably 10 days after the last full charge ...)

This was one thread that identified the 9 day delay.

The actual information was in the FW releasee notes. I can't seem to find those at the moment. I will keep searching.

The delay on self discharge should be a user (Owner) setting.

https://forum.dji.com/forum.php? ... =247861&pid=2535740
2021-10-31
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bjr981s
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frankymusik Posted at 10-25 23:06
Good news so far ...

yesterday evening the auto-discharge of the batteries actually started! (... it was probably 10 days after the last full charge ...)

Here is the FW notes. DJI should really have a FW archive.

https://forum.dji.com/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=247019

2021-10-31
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KlooGee
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bjr981s Posted at 10-31 02:42
Here is the FW notes. DJI should really have a FW archive.

https://forum.dji.com/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=247019

They do!  Just go to the specific product on their website, then go to the downloads, and look for the "Release Notes".

Here is the one for the Air 2S: https://dl.djicdn.com/downloads/ ... elease_Notes_en.pdf
2021-11-1
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bjr981s
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KlooGee Posted at 11-1 07:35
They do!  Just go to the specific product on their website, then go to the downloads, and look for the "Release Notes".

Here is the one for the Air 2S: https://dl.djicdn.com/downloads/DJI_Air_2S/1014/DJI_Air_2S_Release_Notes_en.pdf

Thats not what I meant. Not the last release of the FW but a list of all FW from day 1 Updated into a single Doc.

This is the way Futaba deal with updates.

You can read from bottom up what changes were implemented when.

Cheers
2021-11-1
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KlooGee
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bjr981s Posted at 11-1 07:44
Thats not what I meant. Not the last release of the FW but a list of all FW from day 1 Updated into a single Doc.

This is the way Futaba deal with updates.

Maybe I'm still misunderstanding, but the page I linked to is exactly that!  Each page in the doc lists all of the information for each firmware release.  

Pg 1:  v02.04.20.80
Pg 2:  v02.04.20.40
Pg 3:  v02.04.16.90
Pg 4:  v02.04.16.40

2021-11-1
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bjr981s
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KlooGee Posted at 11-1 11:38
Maybe I'm still misunderstanding, but the page I linked to is exactly that!  Each page in the doc lists all of the information for each firmware release.  

Pg 1:  v02.04.20.80

Yep got that. Futaba as I said has it all in a single document. So its easy to mark the doc and download regularly for any updates. its also a cross reference for changes that that are made or reversed over different releases. It also references differences for different regions. And does not have nonsensicle entries that done mean anything. Just sayin.
I am still hoping to see the air 2 battery discharge change reversed out at some stage. It's just plain dumb and a reaction to comments from people that don't understand LiPos..

Cheers


2021-11-3
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userf09b38e633
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So it seems dji think the batteries still discharge at 5 days.
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2021-11-4
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