I have managed to download some RAW LOG Apple ProRes video files that people who have Mavic 3s have posted to the internet.  And while they look lovely I was disappointed to see that they are shot in Rec 709 (8 bit HDTV colour space) and not shot in Rec 2020 (10 bit ULTRA HDR colour space).  This means the maximum saturation and contrast ranges in the video are as limited as they have been since the first Mavic Pro V1.

Also the LUT files DJI has published for the Mavic 3 are also Rec 709 files.  With so many cell phones now shooting HDR video and able to shoot in the full Rec 2020 colour space it was very disappointing to see this amazing new drone is not able to shoot HDR video.  

Is this a limitation of the current firmware or should I assume that this is a hardware limitation of the drone?

NOTE: Adding information just received from DJI. Sadly the Mavic 3 is not able to do HDR video like the iPhone 13 or other new cameras.  For such an expensive drone this is very unforunate.
  
This conflicts with DJI's own marketing material that says "One billion colors captured by the 10-bit Dlog-M color profile" If you are only capturing 8 bits of colours and not doing HDR you can't capture 1 billion colours.  That requires full HDR support to do 1 billion colors.

Well here is the info on file in H.265 format 10 bit.
As you see it is BT.709 and i did noticed that it is hard to color grade like when you want to lower luminance of sky (blue), and my Sony A7S III have almost RAW-like look if you do this, while with mavic 3 it does behave as it is 8 bit even thou it say 10 bit.... have no idea why is that :/
I would like someone to give me some explanation.


Format                      : MPEG-4
Format profile              : Base Media
Codec ID                    : isom (isom/iso2/mp41)
File size                   : 206 MiB
Duration                    : 10 s 520 ms
Overall bit rate            : 164 Mb/s
Encoded date                : UTC 2022-01-09 16:05:38
Tagged date                 : UTC 2022-01-09 16:05:38
Writing application         : DJIMavic3
Cover                       : Yes
snal                        : (Binary)

Video
ID                          : 1
Format                      : HEVC
Format/Info                 : High Efficiency Video Coding
Format profile              : Main 10@L6@Main
Codec ID                    : hvc1
Codec ID/Info               : High Efficiency Video Coding
Duration                    : 10 s 520 ms
Bit rate                    : 162 Mb/s
Width                       : 5 120 pixels
Height                      : 2 700 pixels
Display aspect ratio        : 1.896
Frame rate mode             : Constant
Frame rate                  : 50.000 FPS
Color space                 : YUV
Chroma subsampling          : 4:2:0
Bit depth                   : 10 bits
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)          : 0.234
Stream size                 : 203 MiB (99%)
Encoded date                : UTC 2022-01-09 16:05:38
Tagged date                 : UTC 2022-01-09 16:05:38
Color range                 : Limited
Color primaries             : BT.709
Transfer characteristics    : BT.709
Matrix coefficients         : BT.709
Codec configuration box     : hvcC

Other #1
Type                        : meta
Duration                    : 10 s 520 ms
Bit rate mode               : Variable
Default                     : No

Other #2
Type                        : dbgi
Duration                    : 10 s 520 ms
Bit rate mode               : Variable
Default                     : No

Goran_m_pg Posted at 1-9 13:47
Well here is the info on file in H.265 format 10 bit.
As you see it is BT.709 and i did noticed that it is hard to color grade like when you want to lower luminance of sky (blue), and my Sony A7S III have almost RAW-like look if you do this, while with mavic 3 it does behave as it is 8 bit even thou it say 10 bit.... have no idea why is that :/
I would like someone to give me some explanation.

Yes but the BT.709 means that none of the colour values are beyond 8 bit.  So it is a 10 bit file that contains 8 bit data.

None of the files are beyond 600 nits and none of the colours are beyond the 709 or 8 bit colour space.  So while it is good it is not really HDR or 10 bit video.

So it is still working in the same colour space as the Mavic Pro V1.  It is not working in 10 bit colour and contrast ranges like an iPhone 13 or other cameras that do true 10 bit colour.

But maybe that will change in a new firmware.

WTF, is there DJI Support to confirm this?

Goran_m_pg Posted at 1-10 00:35
WTF, is there DJI Support to confirm this?

I have asked DJI Support about this but haven't received anything yet.  I will update you if they tell me something.  I have inspected a video someone else posted a raw Apple ProRes file to the internet.  When I looked at it it was obvious the colour space didn't exist outside the standard definition 709.  And the only LUTs file DJI provides is a 709 LUTs so again not high dynamic range just standard.

So having a HDR mode that operates still within the standard definition mode is not what I call HDR.  It is a simulated HDR with just boosting up the dark areas and saturations but not showing the full HDR spectrum.  

I was thinking as a 10 bit camera we would be looking at true HDR at this point.

following.

I will do a test with proper H.265 10 bit footage (A7SIII)  VS Mavic 3 H.265 10 bit footage, both LOG, and both graded just to see the difference and confirm this issue since on some pages i see that BT.709 can be 10 bit also.

If this turns out to be true, that DJI advertise drone to be 10 bit when actually it is 8 bit, I would be extremely, not only disappointed, but i will start to think that they are not having knowledge for video industry just for blind specs to sell there products.

Well DJI just send me an answer.

"Hi Joseph, thank you for getting back, Mavic 3 does not support HDR video recording. It supports D-log while shooting video. And it supports 10 bit (D-Log mode for recording), and 8 bit (Normal color mode for recording). Hope this is informative for you."

HDR its true, its not currently supported.
Normal mode is 8 bit
LOG mode is 10 bit but BT.709 color as i pasted from my file.

They dont go in deep, they just read you the drone specs

Ok first i need to update this topic. What happened is that Joe Dawson had no knowledge regarding this subject and posted this topic which  made me confused.
He posted this subject on facebook claiming DJI told him that drone is 8 bit color compiled in 10bit encoder, even posted a screenshot that he stated his claim of where DJI say clearly that standard color profile is 8bit and D-log is 10 bit but he understood that completely wrong and continued to push his theory.  To bad that post is deleted but there were a lot of people providing argument that what he is comparing is color space not bit depth and so on and so on... to make things short, MAVIC 3 is 10 bit and here is one comparison that i did that proves that.


Tested 10 bit A7S III footage VS 8 bit of the same camera just to see what is difference and how to recognize it, and then added MAVIC 3 D-log in comparison, that shows almost same result as A7S III 10 bit, so to conclude this, 10 BIT all round   

Goran_m_pg Posted at 1-13 14:15
Ok first i need to update this topic. What happened is that Joe Dawson had no knowledge regarding this subject and posted this topic which  made me confused.
He posted this subject on facebook claiming DJI told him that drone is 8 bit color compiled in 10bit encoder, even posted a screenshot that he stated his claim of where DJI say clearly that standard color profile is 8bit and D-log is 10 bit but he understood that completely wrong and continued to push his theory.  To bad that post is deleted but there were a lot of people providing argument that what he is comparing is color space not bit depth and so on and so on... to make things short, MAVIC 3 is 10 bit and here is one comparison that i did that proves that.

Thanks for helping make the point..

A Sony camera as yours can shoot full 10 bit HDR video.


The mavic 3 can not.

Yes you can as you have done take HDR video and place it in standard dynamic range and it looks the same as a Mavic 3.  But the dynamic range of the sony is much better than the Mavic if you know how to place the Sony in HDR mode.

Color range                 : Limited
Are you sure is "Limited" in H265 LOG? Or just in Normal Profile? Because if it is, than is a big problem...Even if you have a 10bit profile at recording, in REC709 format the color range is compressed to R709 only, so will be banding in scenes with sunset/sunrise.
Also is strange that DJI does not have implemented in this case BT.2020 (Rec.2020) as this is a "must have" in a new drone...Perhaps is "work in progress".

Geo_Drone Posted at 1-14 02:52
Color range                 : Limited
Are you sure is "Limited" in H265 LOG? Or just in Normal Profile? Because if it is, than is a big problem...Even if you have a 10bit profile at recording, in REC709 format the color range is compressed to R709 only, so will be banding in scenes with sunset/sunrise.
Also is strange that DJI does not have implemented in this case BT.2020 (Rec.2020) as this is a "must have" in a new drone...Perhaps is "work in progress".

None of DJI drones up to this point have been able to shoot true HDR and I thought this one would but it can not.  If you don't need HDR or don't plan to display your videos on a system able to do HDR this drone will be able to do what you want.

Joe Dawson Posted at 1-14 03:39
None of DJI drones up to this point have been able to shoot true HDR and I thought this one would but it can not.  If you don't need HDR or don't plan to display your videos on a system able to do HDR this drone will be able to do what you want.

Nasty...HDR format and ST/HLG profile is a true beast...And with all new LED and OLED TV's that can manage at least 500 nits (some Oleds already manage 1100 nits), is a waste not to have it...

Geo_Drone Posted at 1-14 04:03
Nasty...HDR format and ST/HLG profile is a true beast...And with all new LED and OLED TV's that can manage at least 500 nits (some Oleds already manage 1100 nits), is a waste not to have it...

This is the information I have from DJI.

Joe Dawson Posted at 1-14 04:23
This is the information I have from DJI.
[view_image]

10 bit LOG is enough to make it "HDR like" in post...the problem is if the 10bit LOG format uses the REC709 color profile that is Limited. Even without HDR, they could use Full color profile at encoding, and would be capable to simulate a nice "HDR like" scene...
But that Limited color is very strange for a 10bit profile. Even at Autel, without HDR enabled, the color profile in A-LOG 10 bit is 4:2:0 Full color, ST...and is 2 years old...
So...maybe needs an update for Full color profile as HEVC codec is capable in 10bit of FULL color profile encoding, but perhaps is not yet implemented in M3.
This is why I have asked you IF that specs are from LOG...but is 10bit, so is clearly LOG, but without proper Color Profile encoded.

Geo_Drone Posted at 1-14 05:01
10 bit LOG is enough to make it "HDR like" in post...the problem is if the 10bit LOG format uses the REC709 color profile that is Limited. Even without HDR, they could use Full color profile at encoding, and would be capable to simulate a nice "HDR like" scene...
But that Limited color is very strange for a 10bit profile. Even at Autel, without HDR enabled, the color profile in A-LOG 10 bit is 4:2:0 Full color, ST...and is 2 years old...
So...maybe needs an update for Full color profile as HEVC codec is capable in 10bit of FULL color profile encoding, but perhaps is not yet implemented in M3.

Yes if your ok with simulated HDR that is fine.

It is a shame now that we have iPhones and Sony a7R III that shot and generate HDR files with 2000 nits of brightness in them out of the device that we didn't see that in the Mavic 3.  Maybe the Mavic 4.

Joe Dawson Posted at 1-14 05:10
Yes if your ok with simulated HDR that is fine.

It is a shame now that we have iPhones and Sony a7R III that shot and generate HDR files with 2000 nits of brightness in them out of the device that we didn't see that in the Mavic 3.  Maybe the Mavic 4.

Well, at least NOW is not supported...Depending on hardware (i don't know what sensor they have), it can be a feature implemented in 4K later...but depends of sensor capabilities.

I can't understand how DJI talks about 1 billion colours if it only supports REC 709. They are lying!!!! Rec 709 is limited to 7 stops of Dynamic Range and 8 bit color gamma... They would need BT.2020 for this...

Mavic 3 sensor can capture 10 bit & 1 billion colours but they can't record it (because of REC 709) ?

I'm almost sure that DJI can be sued because of their wrong specs and information omission.

I won't upgrade until DJI have a BT.2020 drone capable of 1 billion Colors and 10 bit RECORDING...

Something I'm surprised wasn't mentioned in this thread is the much more expensive Mavic 3 Cine. I just downloaded test footage in Prores 4:2:2.... It is also only BT.709 which is totally insane.

"Prosumer" drone ROFL. Has this been fixed or can the camera simply not do it?

arconz Posted at 9-18 16:50
Something I'm surprised wasn't mentioned in this thread is the much more expensive Mavic 3 Cine. I just downloaded test footage in Prores 4:2:2.... It is also only BT.709 which is totally insane.

"Prosumer" drone ROFL. Has this been fixed or can the camera simply not do it?

No, and probably will never be, as you need a sensor that is capable of Full HDR and encode in HDR10 flux.
So...the CINE version of Mavic 3 is pure commercial for people, as you get a ProRes but no real advantages in quality.
What a Cine can do, is exactly what a standard Mavic 3 can do if is recorded in LOG H265 and then converted to DnX format (takes a couple seconds on a blade video server).
I would say that Standard Mavic 3 is better than Cine (who thought at this, right?) because the H265 codec have also a noise cancelation embedded as is encoding in blocks, so the image from Standard will be with less noise than CINE ProRes (apple codec always will need a denoiser in order to look extra fine, who knows a little encoding and how is made, knows also this).
Let's hope that next Mavic 3 will have a sensor that is HDR capable, or is just obsolete if goes to Limited and LOG without HDR10 flux.
Every time I put side by side a Mavic 3 and a Evo2Pro I start cursing DJI for being so stupid...as the Mavic 3 image looks like a joke (a bad one) on low light conditions, even if sensor is bigger than Evo2Pro...

Hey Geo bud / Guys,

      I have to disagree with you. I think this thread was created way before multiple important firmware updates have gotten released. So currently Mavic 3 or Mavic 3 Cine both support recording in HLG 10 bit HDR , which is 10 bit color BT.2020 color space container with HLG transfer function. ProRes on Cine would allow you to record in 4:2:2 chroma sampling with little compression, while H.265 would do 4:2:0, though this is a negligible difference imho. Also regarding the OP question on D-Log , yes it records in rec.709 color space , but it does record real 10 bit of data and just embeds it in rec.709 color space container with transfer function of D-Log. Many flat color profiles do this , not just DJI, including Autel , which records in rec.709 for A-Log 10 bit. You would have to use software such as Davinci Resolve or Final Cut Pro X / Adobe Premier Pro to transform D-Log rec.709 10 bit video into rec.2020 color space with either HLG or PQ transfer functions. That is easily achievable with those applications I mentioned (I use Davinci Resolve).  
Also regarding denoising, DJI does auto denoise for you in 4k 60fps (probably other fps as well) , but it does not do denoising in 5.1k 50fps (this is not official, but is visible to naked eye). Hope this helps.

Thanks, Mike.

Sadly even with all updates it still only shoots in rec 709. So it lacks dynamic range for true hdr.

Joe Dawson Posted at 9-19 11:23
Sadly even with all updates it still only shoots in rec 709. So it lacks dynamic range for true hdr.

Hey Joe,

   You just need to select HLG color , it will be rec.2020 10 bit HDR. It is available in Camera section, you should be able to see it there. Hope this helps.

Thanks, Mike.

Mzp Posted at 9-19 11:27
Hey Joe,

   You just need to select HLG color , it will be rec.2020 10 bit HDR. It is available in Camera section, you should be able to see it there. Hope this helps.

EDIT: I just read your other post. Some confusion over the Log transfer etc so I will go and read up on this lol.

arconz Posted at 9-21 00:13
EDIT: I just read your other post. Some confusion over the Log transfer etc so I will go and read up on this lol.

Hi Arconz,

   You can read this thread https://forum.dji.com/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=253049 , Hallmark posted a very detailed info explaining on what log profile is and how it works. To maybe clarify confusion, if you just want rec.2020 10bit HDR straight out of your camera, just select HLG color profile in Camera settings, you would get rec.2020 10bit HDR recorded straight out of the camera and you would be able to watch the MP4 files produced on a TV or PC without need for color grading (unless you want to color grade). Hope this helps.

Thanks, Mike.

Not sure if I'm in the right thread here, but when I apply the Rec709 LUT from DJI I get nasty colour banding in the sky. Any reason for this?

Specs:
-DLOG
-C4K
-Rec709 DJI LUT
-ND16 Filter Applied

Naythan Lange Posted at 9-27 15:40
Not sure if I'm in the right thread here, but when I apply the Rec709 LUT from DJI I get nasty colour banding in the sky. Any reason for this?

Specs:

Hi Naythan,

    This does not look normal. I have never seen this in my experience with Mavic 3. What if you try HLG , do you still get yellow cast?

Thanks, Mike.

Mzp Posted at 9-19 11:27
Hey Joe,

   You just need to select HLG color , it will be rec.2020 10 bit HDR. It is available in Camera section, you should be able to see it there. Hope this helps.

Can anybody confirm that?

I want to buy the Mavic 3, but also want bt2020, 10bit.

So my question, does the Mavic 3 (the none Cine) record 4:2:2? Or is that only for the Cine?

The issue is misunderstanding.
Almost all log profiles have "rec709" tag colorspace. The captured colors of d-log are in real 10 bit and d-log colorspace which wide as bt2020
To preview it in almost all devices, compaines forced to tag it as rec709. They also can tag is limited / full, it doesnt matter
All you need is set real colorspace input in your edit programs

p.s. I researched that coz my panasonic's v-log also tagged as rec709

fans45a84063 Posted at 11-18 22:10
Can anybody confirm that?

I want to buy the Mavic 3, but also want bt2020, 10bit.

Hi Fans,

      Any Mavic 3 edition you choose would record HLG HDR 10 BIT BT.2020 color space natively. But that would be in 4:2:0 I believe when using H.265 code. If you for some reason need 4:2:2 , that is only available on Mavic 3 Cine with ProRes code. But imho unless you have a requirement from your customer to record in 4:2:2, 4:2:0 is just good enough and probably is indistinguishable with 4:2:2. Hope this helps.

Thanks, Mikhail.

Goran_m_pg Posted at 1-13 14:15
Ok first i need to update this topic. What happened is that Joe Dawson had no knowledge regarding this subject and posted this topic which  made me confused.
He posted this subject on facebook claiming DJI told him that drone is 8 bit color compiled in 10bit encoder, even posted a screenshot that he stated his claim of where DJI say clearly that standard color profile is 8bit and D-log is 10 bit but he understood that completely wrong and continued to push his theory.  To bad that post is deleted but there were a lot of people providing argument that what he is comparing is color space not bit depth and so on and so on... to make things short, MAVIC 3 is 10 bit and here is one comparison that i did that proves that.

I have a question, what sector is 10-bit dlog friendly with? does it work with full hd?

djiuser_bjxOhR4JWC4R Posted at 12-12 22:41
I have a question, what sector is 10-bit dlog friendly with? does it work with full hd?

Hi Djiuser,

     Dlog is 10 bit color encoded in rec.709 container, so it can be viewed on any basic monitor. Full HD is the resolution of the monitor, it is also referred to as 1080p , which is 1920 by 1080 pixels. If you record your video on Mavic 3 in 4k or 5.1k , you can still view it on your Full HD monitor, the  only thing is you won't be able to enjoy the level of details that is captured by the Mavic 3 camera in 4k or 5.1k, but you can still view it on Full HD monitor just fine. Also if you are not familiar with color grading process , you may want to use HLG or Normal color profile in Camera settings of Mavic 3 as D-Log is not used for viewing it on the monitor, it is a special flat color profile used specifically for people who need to use it as a starting point and color grade to make a creative video out of it. Color grading is done in many applications available on the market, such as Davinci Resolve, Final Cut Pro X (Apple only), Adobe Premier, etc. If you are not familiar with color grading or don't want to color grade , your best best is to choose  "Normal" or "HLG" color profile, so you can enjoy your videos once you download from SD card of the drone (or SSD if you have Cine version) without any need of extra work / processing of the video. Hope this helps.

Take care, Mike.

Mzp Posted at 2022-12-13 06:56
Hi Djiuser,

     Dlog is 10 bit color encoded in rec.709 container, so it can be viewed on any basic monitor. Full HD is the resolution of the monitor, it is also referred to as 1080p , which is 1920 by 1080 pixels. If you record your video on Mavic 3 in 4k or 5.1k , you can still view it on your Full HD monitor, the  only thing is you won't be able to enjoy the level of details that is captured by the Mavic 3 camera in 4k or 5.1k, but you can still view it on Full HD monitor just fine. Also if you are not familiar with color grading process , you may want to use HLG or Normal color profile in Camera settings of Mavic 3 as D-Log is not used for viewing it on the monitor, it is a special flat color profile used specifically for people who need to use it as a starting point and color grade to make a creative video out of it. Color grading is done in many applications available on the market, such as Davinci Resolve, Final Cut Pro X (Apple only), Adobe Premier, etc. If you are not familiar with color grading or don't want to color grade , your best best is to choose  "Normal" or "HLG" color profile, so you can enjoy your videos once you download from SD card of the drone (or SSD if you have Cine version) without any need of extra work / processing of the video. Hope this helps.

Thank you so so much Mzp for your precious explanations

You guys know HDR doesn't mean wide color gamut, right? It means wide luminosity range. Just because it is still 8bit color doesn't mean it isn't HDR. It's not like people are running around with $4k plus referance monitors to even get close to Rec.2020 to view your content anyway.

djiuser_CgYhBqmxP83j Posted at 9-4 14:22
You guys know HDR doesn't mean wide color gamut, right? It means wide luminosity range. Just because it is still 8bit color doesn't mean it isn't HDR. It's not like people are running around with $4k plus referance monitors to even get close to Rec.2020 to view your content anyway.

Hi Djiuser,

          There are actually different types of HDR - photo and video. For video the "classic" HDR is at least 10 bit color with HLG or PQ transfer function. While reference monitors are expensive, consumer gaming HDR monitors cost much less , they mostly come color calibrated with low color delta. You can actually get one for maybe $250 and up. HLG / PQ are tied to at least rec.2020 color space, even though most monitors don't seem to get higher than DCI-P3 when displaying the video rendered in rec.2020. You can probably render HLG or PQ in 8 bits as editing software today should allow this, but I am not sure how good it would look. Also lately cameras capturing video with dual ISO often in rec.709 color space and 8 bit color depth started to be referred to as having HDR video. Some non DJI drones and action cameras slap HDR logo when using this technology, even though their videos are neither higher luminosity nor higher color range. Hope this helps.

Take care, Mike.