Finally got an extra pair of hands to undertake a simultaneous flight for a truly fair Strong Wind Test.  Mavic 3 really is like a bullet...

Cheers
Ian

Good Job, both drones done well. But into the wind Mavic3 is impressive.

If you answered this, I missed it. Does DJI use GPS to report and limit speed? I can see where unlimited speed could overstress the components. I noticed that for both with the tailwind, they were spot on with the published specs. Just wondering. Thanks, IanOh yeah, nice informative video. Useful info.

Mobilehomer Posted at 2-17 10:59
If you answered this, I missed it. Does DJI use GPS to report and limit speed? I can see where unlimited speed could overstress the components. I noticed that for both with the tailwind, they were spot on with the published specs. Just wondering. Thanks, IanOh yeah, nice informative video. Useful info.

Does DJI use GPS to report and limit speed?
The speed data comes from GPS and the gyro sensor in the IMU.

I noticed that for both with the tailwind, they were spot on with the published specs.
For about 7 years, DJI have limited speed over the ground so that you cannot get more than a tiny speed boost from a tailwind.

I can see where unlimited speed could overstress the components.
If they didn't put on the brakes and allowed you to ride a tailwind, it wouldn't put any more stress on the drone than normal flying.

Labroides Posted at 2-17 12:16
Does DJI use GPS to report and limit speed?
The speed data comes from GPS and the gyro sensor in the IMU.

Thanks, the first two points is exactly what I thought. Point three, I am still in the mind set of brushed motors. Didn't even think of coreless. Could the props be overstressed?

Something's not right with the Air 2S performance.
The top speed specs for both drones are identical:
Max Flight Speed (near sea level, no wind)
    19 m/s (S Mode)
    15 m/s (N Mode)
    5 m/s (C Mode)

Their performance should have been similar.

Mobilehomer Posted at 2-17 12:20
Thanks, the first two points is exactly what I thought. Point three, I am still in the mind set of brushed motors. Didn't even think of coreless. Could the props be overstressed?

Point three, I am still in the mind set of brushed motors. Didn't even think of coreless. Could the props be overstressed?
When fly in atti mode and pick up a big speed boost with a strong tailwind, there's no additional stress on the drone.
Even when its speed over the ground is 68 mph, the speed through the air is still the same as it would be in still air.
It's like walking on a travelling walkway.
You can achieve a faster speed over the ground, but there's no additional stress on you.

Labroides Posted at 2-17 12:57
Point three, I am still in the mind set of brushed motors. Didn't even think of coreless. Could the props be overstressed?
When fly in atti mode and pick up a big speed boost with a strong tailwind, there's no additional stress on the drone.
Even when its speed over the ground is 68 mph, the speed through the air is still the same as it would be in still air.

Duh!! Thanks Labs, Ken

Brilliant both drones perform really well, thanks for sharing

Labroides Posted at 2-17 12:50
Something's not right with the Air 2S performance.
The top speed specs for both drones are identical:
Max Flight Speed (near sea level, no wind)

They both have different wind speed resistance.

hallmark007 Posted at 2-17 13:52
They both have different wind speed resistance.

Wind speed resistance is a meaningless thing that DJI puts in their specs.
It has nothing to do with what was observed in the video.
Top speed (the ability of the drone to push through the air) is all that matters and that is identical for both models.
Whether the air is still air or moving (wind) their top speed should be the same.

Labroides Posted at 2-17 13:57
Wind speed resistance is a meaningless thing that DJI puts in their specs.
It has nothing to do with what was observed in the video.
Top speed is all that matters and that is identical for both models.

Unless the motors of the Air 2S are not powerful enough to overcome the wind resistance.

Labroides Posted at 2-17 13:57
Wind speed resistance is a meaningless thing that DJI puts in their specs.
It has nothing to do with what was observed in the video.
Top speed (the ability of the drone to push through the air) is all that matters and that is identical for both models.

Why is it meaninglessness?

hallmark007 Posted at 2-17 14:01
Why is it meaninglessness?

Because it means almost nothing.
It's roughly the max wind speed for which the drone can hold position in normal mode.
It has nothing to do with how fast the drone can fly in any wind.

If you read the details I put into my previous posts, that explains what's relevant.

Labroides Posted at 2-17 14:11
Because it means almost nothing.
It's roughly the max wind speed for which the drone can hold position in normal mode.
It has nothing to do with how fast the drone can fly in any wind.

Why would you be advised not to fly with drone above these speeds if they make no difference , why if drones fly at the same speed in all conditions they’re not all given the same rating. If Air2s flys at the same speed as Mavic3 then why has it a different rating for flying in wind.

Hello there Ian. Good day and thank you for posting this interesting video that you have filmed. Nicely done and thank you for your support. .

Labroides Posted at 2-17 12:50
Something's not right with the Air 2S performance.
The top speed specs for both drones are identical:
Max Flight Speed (near sea level, no wind)

I thought that, but the spec'd max speeds are just that; specified.  As you rightly say, the speeds are throttled to max-out at the specified max speed even if they had the power to go faster.  If the Mavic 3 has far more powerful motors, they would be able to overcome a stronger headwind better than a model with weaker motors but the same spec'd max speed.  

Ian

I absolutely love the Ian in London videos on YT.  Always great stuff!  Thank you!

Very interesting to view Ian. As a strictly recreational flyer though, I don't think I can justify spending over £2000 to fly on windier days but the professional users need to fly as often as possible to earn their money.

hallmark007 Posted at 2-17 14:21
Why would you be advised not to fly with drone above these speeds if they make no difference , why if drones fly at the same speed in all conditions they’re not all given the same rating. If Air2s flys at the same speed as Mavic3 then why has it a different rating for flying in wind.

Why would you be advised not to fly with drone above these speeds
Because you are not advised of that at all.

why if drones fly at the same speed in all conditions they’re not all given the same rating.
My best guess is that DJI made a mistake, because it doesn't make sense.

If Air2s flys at the same speed as Mavic3 then why has it a different rating for flying in wind.
Either DJI made a mistake with the speed specs or there's something else holding back the Air 2S.

And that rating is not about flying in wind.
It's the max wind at which the drone can hover and hold position in normal mode.
(Didn't I already explain that)?

Labroides Posted at 2-18 00:23
Why would you be advised not to fly with drone above these speeds
Because you are not advised of that at all.

And this changes with every drone

Mobilehomer Posted at 2-17 14:01
Unless the motors of the Air 2S are not powerful enough to overcome the wind resistance.

But both have motors/props/tilt angles are powerful enough to achieve 19m/sec in still air.
They can both overcome the air resistance necessary to achieve that speed.
Whether the air is still or moving makes no difference, their top airspeed should be 19 m/s.
If they push against a headwind, that reduces their speed over the ground, but their airspeed should also be the same.

hallmark007 Posted at 2-18 00:26
[view_image]And this changes with every drone

What point do you think you are making?
That is irrelevant to this discussion.
Ian flew in stronger winds.

You'll also find DJI saying don't fly over water, but you do it all the time (like hundreds of flyers).

And this changes with every drone
But the top speed for both drones is identical according to the specs.

Labroides Posted at 2-18 00:37
What point do you think you are making?
That is irrelevant to this discussion.
Ian flew in stronger winds.

The point I’m making is one drone could get up to top speed or higher speed in that wind, the other couldn’t . Its really that simple.

Thats quite impressive,  shame you didnt test the M2P vs M3

Labroides Posted at 2-18 00:35
But both have motors/props/tilt angles are powerful enough to achieve 19m/sec in still air.
They can both overcome the air resistance necessary to achieve that speed.
Whether the air is still or moving makes no difference, their top airspeed should be 19 m/s.

Not quite; their top ground speed is 19 m/s, as that's what the specs state, but their top airspeed is probably higher but restricted to ensure the spec'd max speeds aren't breached.  
So, as I said earlier, the Mavic 3 has clearly got more powerful motors that means it's easily capable of flying at a higher speed than 19 m/s in still air but doesn't, because it's been spec'd to fly at that max speed in Sports Mode.  

It is quite powerfull!

Ian in London Posted at 2-18 02:17
Not quite; their top ground speed is 19 m/s, as that's what the specs state, but their top airspeed is probably higher but restricted to ensure the spec'd max speeds aren't breached.  
So, as I said earlier, the Mavic 3 has clearly got more powerful motors that means it's easily capable of flying at a higher speed than 19 m/s in still air but doesn't, because it's been spec'd to fly at that max speed in Sports Mode.

Not quite; their top ground speed is 19 m/s, as that's what the specs state, but their top airspeed is probably higher but restricted to ensure the spec'd max speeds aren't breached.
All DJI drones' top speed is limited by the tilt angle that the firmware allows for each flight mode.
Tilt further forward and the drone goes faster.
Both the M3 and Air 2S will reach 19 m/s in still air with their set max tilt angles.

So, as I said earlier, the Mavic 3 has clearly got more powerful motors that means it's easily capable of flying at a higher speed than 19 m/s in still air but doesn't, because it's been spec'd to fly at that max speed in Sports Mode.
The power of the motors is a small part of the potential top speed.
It's not as simple as bigger motorsmake the drone go faster.

The Mavic 3 weighs 50% more than the Air 2S, so the Air 2S doesn't need motors as strong to achieve the same performance.
And according to the spec, both can make 19 m/s in still air.
So their speed flying against the same wind should be equal.

But the speeds were clearly different, so there has to be something causing this.
I'll have to go through the video again and tabulate the relative speeds and flight modes to see if I can find what it might be.

Labroides Posted at 2-18 03:33
Not quite; their top ground speed is 19 m/s, as that's what the specs state, but their top airspeed is probably higher but restricted to ensure the spec'd max speeds aren't breached.
All DJI drones' top speed is limited by the tilt angle that the firmware allows for each flight mode.
Tilt further forward and the drone goes faster.

That would be very good.  I was surprised myself at the amount of difference; I did think the Air 2S would be closer to the Mavic 3.   That said, the 2 Pro was a beast in wind yet the Mavic 3 beat that comfortably in the strong wind as well the other month.
I am currently looking out the window at 60 - 70 mph gusts with today's huge storm hitting London and the south east, but have decided to keep all drones down today.....

Ian in London Posted at 2-18 03:43
That would be very good.  I was surprised myself at the amount of difference; I did think the Air 2S would be closer to the Mavic 3.   That said, the 2 Pro was a beast in wind yet the Mavic 3 beat that comfortably in the strong wind as well the other month.
I am currently looking out the window at 60 - 70 mph gusts with today's huge storm hitting London and the south east, but have decided to keep all drones down today.....

Late at night here ...  I'll get around to it later because it's bugging me.
One thing to clarify (but I should tabulate first to know if it matters), could it be that the Air 2S had obstacle avoidance working but the M3 didn't?
That would make the Air 2S go slower in Normal Mode.

Ian in London Posted at 2-18 03:43
That would be very good.  I was surprised myself at the amount of difference; I did think the Air 2S would be closer to the Mavic 3.   That said, the 2 Pro was a beast in wind yet the Mavic 3 beat that comfortably in the strong wind as well the other month.
I am currently looking out the window at 60 - 70 mph gusts with today's huge storm hitting London and the south east, but have decided to keep all drones down today.....

In all three tests, both drones achieve almost the same speed when comming home with a tailwind.
But when flying against the wind, the Air 2S was consistently and significantly slower than the M3.

Test 1 Air 2s top speed was 75% of M3 speed
Test 2 - 57%, Test 3 - 58.6%

That's just not right for drones rated at equal top speed capability.
As the speed of the drone is directly dependent on the tilt angle.
I'd be interested to see the flight data to compare the tilt angles for each drone to see why the Air 2 S was under-performing it's expected speed by so much.

Labroides Posted at 2-18 00:35
But both have motors/props/tilt angles are powerful enough to achieve 19m/sec in still air.
They can both overcome the air resistance necessary to achieve that speed.
Whether the air is still or moving makes no difference, their top airspeed should be 19 m/s.

The Corvette has enough power to achieve 200 MPH. But it wouldn't pull a 20,000 load near half that speed. Come on, man. you're losing it.

Mobilehomer Posted at 2-18 05:33
The Corvette has enough power to achieve 200 MPH. But it wouldn't pull a 20,000 load near half that speed. Come on, man. you're losing it.

No-one is asking either drone to pull anything.

But both drones are capable of flying at the same speeds according to the specs.
So why aren't they in the tests?

There will be a reason and in my last post, I suggested where the answer is probably going to be found.
And if you think I'm losing it, you are mistaken.
But there have been a few comments in this thread from some who don't understand the basic physics involved in how wind affects a drone's performance.

Labroides Posted at 2-18 06:00
No-one is asking either drone to pull anything.

But both drones are capable of flying at the same speeds according to the specs.

Wind resistance is the same as pulling a load. More work for the vehicle to do requires more power to get equal results.

Labroides Posted at 2-18 03:49
Late at night here ...  I'll get around to it later because it's bugging me.
One thing to clarify (but I should tabulate first to know if it matters), could it be that the Air 2S had obstacle avoidance working but the M3 didn't?
That would make the Air 2S go slower in Normal Mode.

How does Air2s have OA working in sport mode?

Mobilehomer Posted at 2-18 06:15
Wind resistance is the same as pulling a load. More work for the vehicle to do requires more power to get equal results.

Both manage to overcome air resistance and achieve 19 metres/sec in still air.
Whether the air is still or moving makes no difference.
They would be equally affected by wind.

Great side by side test Ian.    Take care of that knee.  

Labroides Posted at 2-18 11:45
Both manage to overcome air resistance and achieve 19 metres/sec in still air.
Whether the air is still or moving makes no difference.
They would be equally affected by wind.

No they will not. Aerodynamics of the two are different. The M3 has more powerful motors. A Corvette and a Smart Car that both are governed to 70 mph will travel the  same on level ground. Put them in a 50 mph head wind and the Corvette will maintain 70 mph. The Smart Car will do good to get to 45 mph.

Mobilehomer Posted at 2-18 12:50
No they will not. Aerodynamics of the two are different. The M3 has more powerful motors. A Corvette and a Smart Car that both are governed to 70 mph will travel the  same on level ground. Put them in a 50 mph head wind and the Corvette will maintain 70 mph. The Smart Car will do good to get to 45 mph.

The difference in aerodynamics is included in the top still air speed for each drone.
You have (immense) difficulty understanding this so I'll attempt to explain a different lway.

You and a friend like to row your dinghies on a pond.
They are different in length, weight and painted different colours.
On still water you can both row at 6 mph.
The differences in power, weight and resistance to
move through the water etc, are all accounted for in your top rowing speed.

One day you both try to row upstream on the river.
The current is flowing at a steady 3 mph.
Which boat will go faster rowing against the current?

Labroides Posted at 2-18 13:12
The difference in aerodynamics is included in the top still air speed for each drone.
You have (immense) difficulty understanding this so I'll attempt to explain a different lway.

The one with the better power to weight ratio and hydrodynamics. Bad analogy. Try this the next time you get a big wind. Walk straight into the wind for 100 feet. Then turn sideways into the wind. Which way is easier for you?