I have a M3 ET and am struggling trying to get RAW images from the wide-angle lens.  I've called DJI support, got transferred to the Enterprise support group, and then got continuous rings - no one picks up and no voice mail is present.

When the controller shows the lens is Zoom or Wide, I get no option other than JPG.  I thought the enterprise T could do RAW on at least wide angle (based on DJI site).

Thoughts on what I am doing wrong?

DJI Mavic 3 Enterprise Series - Specs - DJI

"Thoughts on what I am doing wrong?"
-> Decrypt DJI website information

Thank you for that, and I did see those specs.

This the line that throws me:
Panorama: 12 MP (raw image); 100 MP (stitched image)

If it can do a 12MP RAW image on Panorama (which I can't get it to do) why could it not do a simple photo in RAW on the same sensor?   Surely at $5,600 for the 3T, they aren't deliberately killing the same software feature they are giving the 3E users for the $3,600 3E?

djiuser_SUilMk3Qjz42 Posted at 12-5 14:10
Thank you for that, and I did see those specs.

This the line that throws me:

Raw images in the case of the panorama means that they are the JPG images were used to make the panorama.

The M3T is a thermal inspection drone. That's all.

LV_Forestry Posted at 12-5 14:14
Raw images in the case of the panorama means that they are the JPG images were used to make the panorama.

The M3T is a thermal inspection drone. That's all.

Thanks for that, Forestry.   

So there is no RAW mode as advertised on the 3T (for Pano).  Just the JPG compression at whatever settings DJI chose (and locked-in software).  So find something (person/animal) on the thermal, but no way to get an enhanced visual picture to get the details that are lost on JPG (face detail, dog v coyote, etc).
DJI,  Thoughts?  Why limit the search and rescue aspects of visual on the 3T and require a second pilot on a second drone to get good visual data on the target the thermal on 3T identifies?  Seems like a cheap thermal drone and a Mavic 3 Classic is a smarter move than the $5600 3T?

Hi there, we are sorry for the inconvenience. May I double confirm if the model of your drone is Mavic 3 Thermal? We are sorry for the confusion caused， Mavic 3 Thermal does not support RAW photo mode. We will forward your feedback to the corresponding team. We also sent you a PM to check some details, please have a look.

DJI Mindy Posted at 12-6 03:11
Hi there, we are sorry for the inconvenience. May I double confirm if the model of your drone is Mavic 3 Thermal? We are sorry for the confusion caused， Mavic 3 Thermal does not support RAW photo mode. We will forward your feedback to the corresponding team. We also sent you a PM to check some details, please have a look.

Yes, this is concerning a Mavic 3 Enterprise T that I purchased.

This is only under the Mavic 2 Enterprise section as I did not see a forum for Mavic 3 Enterprise Drones on the forum.

djiuser_SUilMk3Qjz42 Posted at 12-6 04:29
Yes, this is concerning a Mavic 3 Enterprise T that I purchased.

This is only under the Mavic 2 Enterprise section as I did not see a forum for Mavic 3 Enterprise Drones on the forum.

I responded to the PM

djiuser_SUilMk3Qjz42 Posted at 12-6 04:29
Yes, this is concerning a Mavic 3 Enterprise T that I purchased.

This is only under the Mavic 2 Enterprise section as I did not see a forum for Mavic 3 Enterprise Drones on the forum.

Not really that concerning. It's almost 100% the colour depth that the RAW file has an advantage on, which doesn't benefit you. The tiniest bit of JPG compression, but you're not going to be telling much difference.

There really isn't this 'enhanced visual picture' you're asking  for, from using a RAW photo in terms of what quality you really see, it's not the Hollywood style CSI CCTV "enhance" mode.

Here is a side by side RAW and JPG of a distant lifebuoy from a Mavic 3 shot. Do let me know which is the RAW out of these two.

CloudVisual Posted at 12-6 04:42
Not really that concerning. It's almost 100% the colour depth that the RAW file has an advantage on, which doesn't benefit you. The tiniest bit of JPG compression, but you're not going to be telling much difference.

There really isn't this 'enhanced visual picture' you're asking  for, from using a RAW photo in terms of what quality you really see, it's not the Hollywood style CSI CCTV "enhance" mode.

I just took images from the Zoom (48 mp) and Wide (20 mp) cameras on my 3T drone.  I'm only getting on average 1-3 MP of usable image data.

Image sizes are below - that is a lot of missing sensor data.

Given the 3E can do RAW (capturing all information) and DJI confirmed the 3T can not, in my humble opinion, is a deliberate decision to limit the visual inspection data on what is supposed to be a search and rescue / inspection drone.  At a price point of $2000 over the 3E (which has this capability), I don't get why DJI handicapped the software on the 3T.

One can't tell if they are looking at me or Brian Landry via thermal.  That will be in the visual data which is being significantly reduced.

djiuser_SUilMk3Qjz42 Posted at 12-6 06:30
I just took images from the Zoom (48 mp) and Wide (20 mp) cameras on my 3T drone.  I'm only getting on average 1-3 MP of usable image data.

Image sizes are below - that is a lot of missing sensor data.

What do you mean by 1-3mb of usable image data? There's a 8.5 healthy looking colour JPG there. The smallest images are thermal images and won't carry nearly the same amount of data, but are radiometric, which is the most valuable data.

The smaller JPG RGB images you've got in that list there look to me like they were bracketed or heavily overexposed, so there is barely any data there other than white.

Worth saying that the 48mp is most likely using quad bayer, so it's not really true 48MP. I may be wrong, but DJI have been pushing the 48mp quad bayer for a while now and it will only serve to give you lower quality images over the 12mp image the sensor is designed to do.

A RAW image contains a lot more colour depth (10 or 12bit usually for these drones) versus the 8bit for the JPG. An 8bit file is going to contain 64 times less colour data than a 10bit file, which is a lot. There is only a tiny bit of JPG compression in there, as my comparison images show above.

What sort of inspections are you planning on carrying out which require you to take RAW images? Literally no one will be asking for RAW images, just the JPGs, there's enough information in JPG files to carry out any inspection that a drone would be needed for.

I got one visual image with 8.5MB of data.  The other two were 2.5 and 1.5, and they were of the Florida wetlands (green trees) with the sensor on auto.

I agree with you that the 48 MP sensor is likely a quad-bayer 12.  Still, I'd expect more than these small files.  This isn't a one-off for this morning.  I get low-quality visuals from the 3T regularly both during the day and low light shots.  My mini 3 pro (at 1/5 the cost) has much better visuals and jpgs.   

It's not that I have to have RAW as a deliverable.  It's just that in post, these small JPGs just don't meet my expectations for a $5600 ''enterprise' inspection and search/rescue drone.  I'd be better off cost-wise doing thermal with a competitor's drone (under $2K for everything) and shooting visuals with my mini 3 pro.  

Again, this seems to me like DJI allows the $2,000 cheaper 3E to and $4,000 cheaper mini pro 3 to have more visual capability than the 3T.  I would think the 3T should have all the capabilities of the 3E (minus the mechanical shutter) plus the thermo.

djiuser_SUilMk3Qjz42 Posted at 12-6 07:42
I got one visual image with 8.5MB of data.  The other two were 2.5 and 1.5, and they were of the Florida wetlands (green trees) with the sensor on auto.

I agree with you that the 48 MP sensor is likely a quad-bayer 12.  Still, I'd expect more than these small files.  This isn't a one-off for this morning.  I get low-quality visuals from the 3T regularly both during the day and low light shots.  My mini 3 pro (at 1/5 the cost) has much better visuals and jpgs.   

Annoyingly I had written out a nice response to this, but it didn't post and I can't recover it.

Size doesn't really matter here when you're comparing JPG to RAW. There's a lot of data in an 8mb JPG and side by side almost identical. If you were editing photos for a landscape photography award, that is when all that extra data is needed from the RAW file. The only time a raw file is going to genuinely come in handy is if you've accidentally underexposed a survey and need the dynamic range to increase the exposure and not lose information, but this is not a mistake you're going to make regularly.

I agree that DJI has purposefully locked down this drone to not be fully capable. They've done this for years across all the drones and it's frustrating. However, your thermal M3 doesn't need to take RAW images and isn't the type of drone that should be used to photograph beauty shots.

The best analogy I can give in all this is that I own three battery drills. I'd like one which does everything equally as good, but that doesn't really exist. Each drill is designed for a specific purpose and excellent at what it does verus its counterpart. It's just the way that is it that manufacturers make these things and have to be careful to not create a product which makes the others obsolete.

Finally and most depressingly of all. The enterprise, survey, emergency services industries that these drones are designed for are ones which don't care much for a few thousand dollars and will happily buy several similar drones which do different jobs, assets like this are ridiculously cheap at this price point to enterprise customers.

CloudVisual Posted at 12-6 08:51
Annoyingly I had written out a nice response to this, but it didn't post and I can't recover it.

Size doesn't really matter here when you're comparing JPG to RAW. There's a lot of data in an 8mb JPG and side by side almost identical. If you were editing photos for a landscape photography award, that is when all that extra data is needed from the RAW file. The only time a raw file is going to genuinely come in handy is if you've accidentally underexposed a survey and need the dynamic range to increase the exposure and not lose information, but this is not a mistake you're going to make regularly.

My two cents (worth half that December 6) is that the 3T has the hardware capabilities to shoot RAW just like the 3E and get good detail from the pictures.  I'm disappointed that on a drone at this price point, they have deliberately handicapped it.  

And I disagree about RAW v JPG.  One image below is 20MB RAW (from a mini 3 pro) the other is the same shot with a 1.5Mb jpg (ala 3T).  See any difference in accuracy?
This is just a screenshot of the images side by side.  It is even more apparent when zooming in on the actual images themselves.  And the tree is only fifty feet from the drone camera.  Imagine the loss from 150-400 feet.

djiuser_SUilMk3Qjz42 Posted at 12-6 10:25
My two cents (worth half that December 6) is that the 3T has the hardware capabilities to shoot RAW just like the 3E and get good detail from the pictures.  I'm disappointed that on a drone at this price point, they have deliberately handicapped it.  

And I disagree about RAW v JPG.  One image below is 20MB RAW (from a mini 3 pro) the other is the same shot with a 1.5Mb jpg (ala 3T).  See any difference in accuracy?

I have the impression that you have a little overestimated the capabilities of the M3T.  It is made to check solar panels, electrical installations, look for a hot spot after a fire.  other than that, not much.

LV_Forestry Posted at 12-6 10:38
I have the impression that you have a little overestimated the capabilities of the M3T.  It is made to check solar panels, electrical installations, look for a hot spot after a fire.  other than that, not much.

On that we agree.  

My use was to find a hot spot and get a good snapshot from around 50 - 100 feet with a camera.  I wasn't expecting blurry and unsharp pictures from a 12MB sensor.  I guess I'm better off returning the 3T and using a cheaper thermal drone to find the hotspot and something like the mini 3 pro or mavic 3 toi get a sharp picture.

djiuser_SUilMk3Qjz42 Posted at 12-6 10:25
My two cents (worth half that December 6) is that the 3T has the hardware capabilities to shoot RAW just like the 3E and get good detail from the pictures.  I'm disappointed that on a drone at this price point, they have deliberately handicapped it.  

And I disagree about RAW v JPG.  One image below is 20MB RAW (from a mini 3 pro) the other is the same shot with a 1.5Mb jpg (ala 3T).  See any difference in accuracy?

Personally I'd be raising a ticket with DJI about your JPGs. No JPG should ever look that compressed out of a modern DJI drone, they just don't compress them that much. I can see why you're saying that the RAW will enhance the image, but I can tell that your JPG just isn't right.

All I can assume is that it's a newly released drone and there may be a firmware issue here.

CloudVisual Posted at 12-6 10:47
Personally I'd be raising a ticket with DJI about your JPGs. No JPG should ever look that compressed out of a modern DJI drone, they just don't compress them that much. I can see why you're saying that the RAW will enhance the image, but I can tell that your JPG just isn't right.

All I can assume is that it's a newly released drone and there may be a firmware issue here.

I agree.

Your JPG looks weird

CloudVisual Posted at 12-6 10:47
Personally I'd be raising a ticket with DJI about your JPGs. No JPG should ever look that compressed out of a modern DJI drone, they just don't compress them that much. I can see why you're saying that the RAW will enhance the image, but I can tell that your JPG just isn't right.

All I can assume is that it's a newly released drone and there may be a firmware issue here.

The drone is less than a month old and has the most recent firmware.

I agree it is overcompressed (12 MB or quad to 48 MB) sensor's worth of data compressed to 1.5MB jpg).  In the days of 1 terabyte SD card for $179, there is no reason for an 8X compression on a $5600 drone kit.

djiuser_SUilMk3Qjz42 Posted at 12-6 10:54
The drone is less than a month old and has the most recent firmware.

I agree it is overcompressed (12 MB or quad to 48 MB) sensor's worth of data compressed to 1.5MB jpg).  In the days of 1 terabyte SD card for $179, there is no reason for an 8X compression on a $5600 drone kit.

What I'm getting at is that it's a newly released DJI drone which might have firmware bugs. Not nearly as many people own your M3T drone as they do a Mavic Mini 3 and issues/bugs take longer to find and fix. You'll only end up living with this issue if you don't bring it to DJI's attention.

The steps I would be taking right now are to flash the firmware on the drone and test the images. The JPG image you've shown is so compressed that it looks like it's been uploaded and downloaded like an internet meme...! Secondly, I'd be showing DJI that JPG image in a support ticket, they will see that it's not right. You should be able to see individual pixels, not blocks of JPG-compression like this.

Also.. You mention a 1TB card. Most DJI drones aren't compatible with 1TB cards and you may also be using a fake card which is causing this. Have you tried another SD Card?

For reference, this is the same tree shot from the same distance with my iPhone 14.  This is a screenshot of the 5.9MB HEIC file the phone generated.

So 5.9MB HEIC / 1.5MB jpg = 4 times more data available.

CloudVisual Posted at 12-6 11:10
What I'm getting at is that it's a newly released DJI drone which might have firmware bugs. Not nearly as many people own your M3T drone as they do a Mavic Mini 3 and issues/bugs take longer to find and fix. You'll only end up living with this issue if you don't bring it to DJI's attention.

The steps I would be taking right now are to flash the firmware on the drone and test the images. The JPG image you've shown is so compressed that it looks like it's been uploaded and downloaded like an internet meme...! Secondly, I'd be showing DJI that JPG image in a support ticket, they will see that it's not right. You should be able to see individual pixels, not blocks of JPG-compression like this.

Yes, I started off with the same 512MB San Disk Extreme card from my mini 3 pro then upgraded to the 1TB San Disk Extreme card.  The results are the same on both cards.

I've flashed the firmware.  No change.

I'm putting the post here on DJIs forum so they can see the pictures.  I've also contacted the store I purchased it from and reported the problem.  They are following this post as well.

if it is an issue related to the current firmware, I don't want to hang around with a 3T waiting for a fix.

And two more pics for DJI.  Both the Mini Pro 3 and 3T are side by side and took photos at the same time.

This is a jpg from the 3T on the left and the jpg (not it's better RAW file) from the Mini Pro 3 on the right.  Both drones camera's are full auto adjustment.

here is a better screenshot.

Just FYI this forum isn’t the official process to report bugs or issues. The admin will chime in every now and then, but if you want the problem sorting you need to submit the issue directly to DJI via their support portal.

djiuser_SUilMk3Qjz42 Posted at 12-6 04:36
I responded to the PM

Thanks, we've replied, please have a look. Besides,  we've confirmed with our engineer that considering that the main application scenario of Mavic 3T is industrial applications, the RAW format is currently not supported. But we've forwarded your feedback and suggestion to our engineer. Thanks for your understanding and support.

the problem remains

Does this version of Mavic have such a problem?

https://youtube.com/shorts/M50IM5xkuFU?feature=share




#mavic #mavic3 #mavic3classic #gimbal #camera

DJI,

Thank you for the review and response.  I will return the Enterprise 3T drone as I have clearly documented the jpg picture quality is unusable.

Maybe in the future, there will be a firmware update that will fix the picture quality, and I'll consider purchasing the drone again then.

djiuser_SUilMk3Qjz42 Posted at 12-7 04:31
DJI,

Thank you for the review and response.  I will return the Enterprise 3T drone as I have clearly documented the jpg picture quality is unusable.

Seems a bit extreme, especially if you have a use for this specialist drone.

DJI usually patch serious bugs quite quickly, just need to go through the right channels. This forum isn't the right way to do it, nor is going back to the person you bought it off.

CloudVisual Posted at 12-7 10:47
Seems a bit extreme, especially if you have a use for this specialist drone.

DJI usually patch serious bugs quite quickly, just need to go through the right channels. This forum isn't the right way to do it, nor is going back to the person you bought it off.

I agree. Dealers are money collectors. That's all.the support works well for the consumer range

I think that this is the problem of low-quality spare parts in the production of dj mavic 3. namely, in the gimbal and the camera switched to mavic3 classic...

https://youtube.com/shorts/M50IM5xkuFU?feature=share





#mavic #mavic3 #mavic3classic #gimbal #camera

For what it is worth, I don't feel DJI should be advertising this 3T drone for search and rescue.  Based on my tests, it is not usable for that purpose.  For example, this picture was from my 3T hovering just above the trees. at sunset.  There is a 6 foot person in shorts, tshirt and no hat standing in the picture.  Even though I knew where they were, the drone didn't see them.  This is about 60 feet directly over them.

From DJIs site:  https://www.dji.com/newsroom/new ... e-commercial-drones


Engineered to serve the special needs of aerial operations in firefighting, search and rescue, inspections and night missions, the DJI Mavic 3T has the same tele camera as Mavic 3E, a 48 MP camera with a 1/2” CMOS sensor, as well as a thermal camera with a Display Field of View (DFOV) of 61° and an equivalent focal length of 40mm with 640 × 512 px resolution.

And though it may be close to the accurate dead center of the sensor (3T says 103.46) and a FLIR (very accurate) says the actual is 101.  But the 3Ts sensor completely missed the hotspot off-center towards the edge of its sensor.  The FLIR confirmed it was there.  Unacceptable.  And both were from 6 feet away sitting on a table, so it is as ghood as it can get for distance for accuracy.

And, then the FLIR's image is crystal clear and the 3Ts is once again blurry.  

djiuser_SUilMk3Qjz42 Posted at 12-10 10:07
For what it is worth, I don't feel DJI should be advertising this 3T drone for search and rescue.  Based on my tests, it is not usable for that purpose.  For example, this picture was from my 3T hovering just above the trees. at sunset.  There is a 6 foot person in shorts, tshirt and no hat standing in the picture.  Even though I knew where they were, the drone didn't see them.  This is about 60 feet directly over them.

From DJIs site:  https://www.dji.com/newsroom/news/the-new-dji-mavic-3-enterprise-series-sets-ultimate-standard-for-portable-commercial-drones

What this image tells me is that you don't have a clue how to use a thermal camera, You saying that it shouldn't be sold for S&R is pure ignorance

You've used the wrong colour palette. Why would you use a palette for seeing gradients in temperature when looking for a person, when all you need to see is the contrast between hot and cold. Ever seen the helicopter police/military videos where they use thermal, it certainly doesn't ever look like this, it's either black hot or white hot.

You've got a bit of a chip on your shoulder about this drone, I think you've bought this because of how cool it would be to own a thermal drone and not for any practical reason or you'd not be picking faults with an industry you clearly have no experience working in.

djiuser_SUilMk3Qjz42 Posted at 12-10 12:26
And though it may be close to the accurate dead center of the sensor (3T says 103.46) and a FLIR (very accurate) says the actual is 101.  But the 3Ts sensor completely missed the hotspot off-center towards the edge of its sensor.  The FLIR confirmed it was there.  Unacceptable.  And both were from 6 feet away sitting on a table, so it is as ghood as it can get for distance for accuracy.

And, then the FLIR's image is crystal clear and the 3Ts is once again blurry.  

First you take an object under the trees, there is no miracle to expect, it's a thermal camera, not an X-ray.

Then you complain about a difference of 1.5 degrees C. The surface you take for comparison is obviously an electrical closet whose material is metal I presume, and which is probably painted with a clear varnish paint! Consider yourself lucky to have only 1.5 degrees of difference. The emissivity of materials and surfaces is a factor to be taken into account. What emissivity is set in the FLIR?

Then you complain about the image of the M3T which is blurry. Your judgment is biased by the outlines of the objects the FLIR traces. Remove them, you will see which of the two is the most blurred.

This is definitely a camera made for SAR, fire and industrial inspection. The objective is to have a rough view of the environment to detect significant temperature differences. Human body on the ground, hot spot after a fire, Conductor loosely clamped in an electrical installation... If you want to measure the excact temperatures on metal doors, there is a good thing, it's a thermometer.

CloudVisual Posted at 12-10 13:09
What this image tells me is that you don't have a clue how to use a thermal camera, You saying that it shouldn't be sold for S&R is pure ignorance

You've used the wrong colour palette. Why would you use a palette for seeing gradients in temperature when looking for a person, when all you need to see is the contrast between hot and cold. Ever seen the helicopter police/military videos where they use thermal, it certainly doesn't ever look like this, it's either black hot or white hot.

I had the color palette in black and white originally (the default) for the wetlands shot.  There was nothing there for the person.  I then changed to the gradient to see if the person would show up better in the gradient.  Nope.  The person was standing in a open area between the trees with a line of sight from the person to the drone.  The reason I chose that spot is it is very similar to the rest of the environment behind it where I'm looking for hot spots at night.  
The drone was purchased for two reasons : (1) to fly over wetlands looking for hotspots and then get a visual picture of the hotspot.  After fiddling with it for weeks, it can't do that.  It can't even pick up a person when I know where that person is standing. (2) to get temperature readings of structures.  Even at 6 feet away on a table, it can't accurately do that, forget about being 50-100 feet from the target and hovering.

I simply expected a $5600 drone to perform as advertised, and it does not.  

As for not knowing anything about thermal, do you wonder why I own a FLIR?

djiuser_SUilMk3Qjz42 Posted at 12-10 13:31
I had the color palette in black and white originally (the default) for the wetlands shot.  There was nothing there for the person.  I then changed to the gradient to see if the person would show up better in the gradient.  Nope.

The drone was purchased for two reasons : (1) to fly over wetlands looking for hotspots and then get a visual picture of the hotspot.  After fiddling with it for weeks, it can't do that.  It can't even pick up a person when I know where that person is standing. (2) to get temperature readings of structures.  Even at 6 feet away on a table, it can't accurately do that.

It's no shame not knowing how to use thermal imaging properly. This is learned over time, the forum is also there for that.

It is not enough to buy cameras to prove that we know how to use them.

djiuser_SUilMk3Qjz42 Posted at 12-10 13:31
I had the color palette in black and white originally (the default) for the wetlands shot.  There was nothing there for the person.  I then changed to the gradient to see if the person would show up better in the gradient.  Nope.

The drone was purchased for two reasons : (1) to fly over wetlands looking for hotspots and then get a visual picture of the hotspot.  After fiddling with it for weeks, it can't do that.  It can't even pick up a person when I know where that person is standing. (2) to get temperature readings of structures.  Even at 6 feet away on a table, it can't accurately do that.

Ah!  and think about calibrating the overlay of the RGB and thermal images of your FLIR. Obviously there is a small lag.

LV_Forestry Posted at 12-10 13:39
Ah!  and think about calibrating the overlay of the RGB and thermal images of your FLIR. Obviously there is a small lag.

Both the 3T and FLIR calibration function was run before I took the pictures.  The 3T took the first picture and the FLIR took the second less than 20 seconds later.  The unit never started, so there is no way that hot spot was not there for the 3T but was there later for the FLIR.

I guess I should have kept my mouth shut about these issues and let other folks like me believe the advertising and specs and spend their hard-earned money.

By the way, did you know the flight time on these is 47 minutes like advertised?