Have Mini 2 Fly More Combo.  Controller is RC 231.  Am recreational-only pilot considering buying Mini 3.  As a recreational-only pilot can I disable RID on Mini 3?

No. In the U.S., native RID cannot be disabled.

Hi, FeralUrchin. Thank you for reaching out. According to the Remote ID rule, the Remote ID system cannot be disabled by any person. Thank you for your kind understanding and support.

Thank you for the responses.  It seems illogical to me that a drone light enough not to require FAA registration must nevertheless provide RID.  Since I will remain a recreational user and refuse needlessly to have the FAA in bed with me, I won't upgrade from my Mini 2.  It seems to me that this circumstance reflects a poor business decision by DJI.

FeralUrchin Posted at 8-5 19:45
Thank you for the responses.  It seems illogical to me that a drone light enough not to require FAA registration must nevertheless provide RID.  Since I will remain a recreational user and refuse needlessly to have the FAA in bed with me, I won't upgrade from my Mini 2.  It seems to me that this circumstance reflects a poor business decision by DJI.

I believe the reason DJI has implemented RID in the Mini 3 and the Mini 3 Pro is due to their offering the 'plus' batteries which places both drones over the 249g mark.

This is why I'm quite content with my Mini 2.

Thanks very much for the response.  Good theory, but I still think that DJI screwed up.  I'm an old-school photographer, and resolution/definition is important to me, so my potential interest in the Mini 3 is the improved camera.  Otherwise, I'm entirely satisfied with the Mini 2 also.  However, I wouldn't put it past DJI to come out with a firmware update that prevents flying the Mini 2 due to "RID error" until some aftermarket RID module is installed--and of course putting the Mini 2 weight above 249 grams.  I don't really understand why the RID broadcaster is in the drone rather than the control box anyway.

I'd strongly recommend you decline any further firmware/software updates from DJI, since I think there is serious risk that future updates will brick the Mini 2.

FeralUrchin Posted at 8-6 10:17
Thanks very much for the response.  Good theory, but I still think that DJI screwed up.  I'm an old-school photographer, and resolution/definition is important to me, so my potential interest in the Mini 3 is the improved camera.  Otherwise, I'm entirely satisfied with the Mini 2 also.  However, I wouldn't put it past DJI to come out with a firmware update that prevents flying the Mini 2 due to "RID error" until some aftermarket RID module is installed--and of course putting the Mini 2 weight above 249 grams.  I don't really understand why the RID broadcaster is in the drone rather than the control box anyway.

I'd strongly recommend you decline any further firmware/software updates from DJI, since I think there is serious risk that future updates will brick the Mini 2.

I wouldn't put it past DJI to come out with a firmware update that prevents flying the Mini 2 due to "RID error" until some aftermarket RID module is installed
...
I'd strongly recommend you decline any further firmware/software updates from DJI, since I think there is serious risk that future updates will brick the Mini 2.
Your imagination is overactive and detached from reality.
It's interesting that you'd be happy to fly without Remote ID, but putting your drone a few grams over 249g is going too far.

Labroides Posted at 8-7 03:40
I wouldn't put it past DJI to come out with a firmware update that prevents flying the Mini 2 due to "RID error" until some aftermarket RID module is installed
...
I'd strongly recommend you decline any further firmware/software updates from DJI, since I think there is serious risk that future updates will brick the Mini 2.

It's not my imagination that DJI currently provides no upgrade from the Mini 2 which is sub-250 grams and without RID for recreational pilots.  I want to fly legally as a recreational-only pilot below 250 grams and without RID--as is my right according to the FAA.  Your "It's interesting..." remark is misplaced.

If the FAA doesn't require RID for sub 250 g recreational pilots, then what is DJI's motivation for forcing it on us if we migrate from the Mini 2 to the Mini3?

FeralUrchin Posted at 8-7 10:43
It's not my imagination that DJI currently provides no upgrade from the Mini 2 which is sub-250 grams and without RID for recreational pilots.  I want to fly legally as a recreational-only pilot below 250 grams and without RID--as is my right according to the FAA.  Your "It's interesting..." remark is misplaced.

If the FAA doesn't require RID for sub 250 g recreational pilots, then what is DJI's motivation for forcing it on us if we migrate from the Mini 2 to the Mini3?

Your imagination is running away with you.
Read the parts of your previous post that I highlighted in blue.
DJI have never done anything remotely like you are suggesting.
Why would they future?

Labroides Posted at 8-7 14:16
Your imagination is running away with you.
Read the parts of your previous post that I highlighted in blue.
DJI have never done anything remotely like you are suggesting.

@labroides  I notice that instead of responding to my concerns in an informative and reassuring way, your posts seem to be mainly ad hominem and dismissive.  My concern is that DJI plans to abandon recreational pilots who fly sub-250 gram drones and who wish to exercise their right to privacy by flying without RID.  This right is granted by the FAA and does not require any explanation or defense by me or other like-minded hobbyists.  I offer as evidence that DJI currently does not offer an upgrade (e.g. improved camera, collision avoidance) path from the Mini 2 for, again, recreational pilots flying sub-250 gram drones who wish to exercise their right to privacy by flying without RID.

If you have some actual knowlege of DJI's plans (e.g. a Mini 3 SE sub 250 g )without RID) and are willing to disclose it, I'd like to hear from you--otherwise please do me the kindness of refraining to respond to my posts..

FeralUrchin Posted at 8-7 16:45
@labroides  I notice that instead of responding to my concerns in an informative and reassuring way, your posts seem to be mainly ad hominem and dismissive.  My concern is that DJI plans to abandon recreational pilots who fly sub-250 gram drones and who wish to exercise their right to privacy by flying without RID.  This right is granted by the FAA and does not require any explanation or defense by me or other like-minded hobbyists.  I offer as evidence that DJI currently does not offer an upgrade (e.g. improved camera, collision avoidance) path from the Mini 2 for, again, recreational pilots flying sub-250 gram drones who wish to exercise their right to privacy by flying without RID.

If you have some actual knowlege of DJI's plans (e.g. a Mini 3 SE sub 250 g )without RID) and are willing to disclose it, I'd like to hear from you--otherwise please do me the kindness of refraining to respond to my posts..

My concern is that you've gone and unrealistically imagined DJI's future actions against you.
Things that DJI has never done in the past.
What special knowledge do you have to make accusations that DJI will likely do these things in future?

If you want to continue to fly a Mavic 2 and avoid RID, you can.
If DJI include RID in future drones, that's their right.

Labroides Posted at 8-7 18:22
My concern is that you've gone and unrealistically imagined DJI's future actions against you.
Things that DJI has never done in the past.
What special knowledge do you have to make accusations that DJI will likely do these things in future?

Your post continues to be unresponsive to mine and now hostile.  I will look for a way to report these exchanges to DJI.

Disable remote ID? Lmao. That's like a criminal saying, can I take the plates off my car during a robbery so they can't track me down. Doesn't matter if your drone is 249g, 900g or 0g. As long as it is a drone that flies it must boardcast its ID.

djiuser_zKR5HFX3a2EC Posted at 8-7 19:33
Disable remote ID? Lmao. That's like a criminal saying, can I take the plates off my car during a robbery so they can't track me down. Doesn't matter if your drone is 249g, 900g or 0g. As long as it is a drone that flies it must boardcast its ID.

Unless I'm missing something The FAA continues to permit sub-250 g drones to be unregistered and without RID for recreational-only flying. Nothing criminal about it.  The Mini 2 is not going to be grounded
after 9/23 unless new DJI firmware bricks it. So the RID requirement seems to be imposed by DJI, not the FAA .  Why?

It appears that DJI intends to abandon the recreational-only, sub-250 g, RID-less market.

FeralUrchin Posted at 8-7 20:02
Unless I'm missing something The FAA continues to permit sub-250 g drones to be unregistered and without RID for recreational-only flying. Nothing criminal about it.  The Mini 2 is not going to be grounded
after 9/23 unless new DJI firmware bricks it. So the RID requirement seems to be imposed by DJI, not the FAA .  Why?

Pardon me but did you read the FAA RID requirements?  Let us know when you are ready to ask questions and understand the parts that you are not familiar with.  There are several keys parts that you omit but I can't tell if you didn't bother or you just rather not understand and want to come to your own ridiculous conclusions.  Many of your assumptions are just incorrect and there are so many, I don't even know where to start.  Words and details matter, you just can't throw around the terms and expect it all to make sense.

I understand the FAA rulings are not always the easiest to understand and I also realize DJI plans are not always apparent but ultimately, there are some things that makes sense....but only if you are open to understanding.  I'm sorry but when you mentioned release firmware to brick it, that just makes me think you don't get it.  A million government ruling for thousands of products over many years and I've only known one company that tried to brick their own products and they absolutely got their butts handed to them and for some reason, you think it's going to happen now?  A reputable manufacturer pushing software over the air to brick their products in response to a government regulation (that doesn't even apply) is not a thing; it's a fantasy.

The Saint Posted at 8-7 20:39
Pardon me but did you read the FAA RID requirements?  Let us know when you are ready to ask questions and understand the parts that you are not familiar with.  There are several keys parts that you omit but I can't tell if you didn't bother or you just rather not understand and want to come to your own ridiculous conclusions.  Many of your assumptions are just incorrect and there are so many, I don't even know where to start.  Words and details matter, you just can't throw around the terms and expect it all to make sense.

I understand the FAA rulings are not always the easiest to understand and I also realize DJI plans are not always apparent but ultimately, there are some things that makes sense....but only if you are open to understanding.  I'm sorry but when you mentioned release firmware to brick it, that just makes me think you don't get it.  A million government ruling for thousands of products over many years and I've only known one company that tried to brick their own products and they absolutely got their butts handed to them and for some reason, you think it's going to happen now?  A reputable manufacturer pushing software over the air to brick their products in response to a government regulation (that doesn't even apply) is not a thing; it's a fantasy.

Indeed, I have read the FAA RID requirements.  It appears to me that the recreation-only, sub-250 g registration/RID exemption still stands.  Is this correct in your view?  If I'm mistaken and the exemption no longer exists, why isn't there some announcement that all Mini 2 drones must be grounded?

To the first question I'd appreciate a simple yes or no.  To the second question I'd appreciate a concise explanation.

In other words, I'd appreciate information, not wordy drama.

FeralUrchin Posted at 8-7 20:55
Indeed, I have read the FAA RID requirements.  It appears to me that the recreation-only, sub-250 g registration/RID exemption still stands.  Is this correct in your view?  If I'm mistaken and the exemption no longer exists, why isn't there some announcement that all Mini 2 drones must be grounded?

To the first question I'd appreciate a simple yes or no.  To the second question I'd appreciate a concise explanation.

In clarification, if needed, by "brick" I mean take off and fly my Mini 2 without an RID module purchased and attached.  According to a youtube piece, DJI has already "bricked" the Arvata with an "RID error" preventing takeoff unless a cellphone is connected to the goggle viewer.  Will DJI "brick" my Mini 2 post 9/16/2023 unless I install an RID module--even though I'm a recreational-only pilot and (I believe) am entitled by the FAA to continue flying without RID?

FeralUrchin Posted at 8-5 19:45
Thank you for the responses.  It seems illogical to me that a drone light enough not to require FAA registration must nevertheless provide RID.  Since I will remain a recreational user and refuse needlessly to have the FAA in bed with me, I won't upgrade from my Mini 2.  It seems to me that this circumstance reflects a poor business decision by DJI.

In accordance with FAA Remote ID rule -§ 89101 (a) (1), users operating a drone for business purposes must register their drone and comply with the Remote ID rule regardless of takeoff weight. The manufacturer is unable determine whether the DJI Mini 3 Pro was used for a recreational or business purposes. To meet user’s compliance requirements to the maximum extent, all DJI Mini 3 Pro drones come with the Remote ID function.

DJI Mindy Posted at 8-7 23:21
In accordance with FAA Remote ID rule -§ 89101 (a) (1), users operating a drone for business purposes must register their drone and comply with the Remote ID rule regardless of takeoff weight. The manufacturer is unable determine whether the DJI Mini 3 Pro was used for a recreational or business purposes. To meet user’s compliance requirements to the maximum extent, all DJI Mini 3 Pro drones come with the Remote ID function.

DJI Mindy,

If that is true that RID is in the Mini 3 Pro and the Mini 3 due to 'the manufacturer is unable to determine whether the DJI Mini 3 Pro was used for a recreational or business purposes' then wouldn't that apply to the DJI Mini 2 as well. Obviously, the DJI Mini 2 is capable of RID since in Japan the DJI Mini 2's received the firmware update to activate the RID.

As I said in an earlier comment, I would think that DJI manufactured both the DJI Mini 3 Pro and the DJI Mini 3 with active RID due to the fact that DJI has made available the 'plus' batteries for both Mini 3 drones, which in both situations puts the drones over 250g.

FeralUrchin Posted at 8-7 20:55
Indeed, I have read the FAA RID requirements.  It appears to me that the recreation-only, sub-250 g registration/RID exemption still stands.  Is this correct in your view?  If I'm mistaken and the exemption no longer exists, why isn't there some announcement that all Mini 2 drones must be grounded?

To the first question I'd appreciate a simple yes or no.  To the second question I'd appreciate a concise explanation.

No, in my view this is not the correct way to look at it.

FAA registration requirement is not a tag that you attach to the drone.  Instead you take your drone, decide what you plan to do with it, determine the drone's characteristics and go from there, at the same time ignoring the manufacturer's wishes.

If you plan to fly your drone for fun, it falls under the recreational exemption.  If you drone is strictly used for recreational purpose and it is under 250g, there is no FAA requirement to register it and there is no FAA requirement to use RID.

That's about all there is when it comes to FAA rules and regulations for drone pilots.

FeralUrchin Posted at 8-7 21:51
In clarification, if needed, by "brick" I mean take off and fly my Mini 2 without an RID module purchased and attached.  According to a youtube piece, DJI has already "bricked" the Arvata with an "RID error" preventing takeoff unless a cellphone is connected to the goggle viewer.  Will DJI "brick" my Mini 2 post 9/16/2023 unless I install an RID module--even though I'm a recreational-only pilot and (I believe) am entitled by the FAA to continue flying without RID?

You're confused if you use the term "bricked" the way you described.  If you insist on using it that way, fine you are welcome to your opinion; but I won't participate in those parts of the conversation because it is not the commonly accepted definition, it causes confusion when you use it out of context, and it is pejorative from the standpoint it seems you are trying to reinforce your points with negatives that aren't necessarily true.

A bricked drone does not fly; not today, no tomorrow, not ever.

The FAA has a requirement that deals with preventing the takeoff of standard RID capable drones and it is not called "bricking."

As I mentioned before, there is no determination at this point relative to the decision as to whether you are a recreational-only pilot or not.

I would forget about what you may have seen on a "youtube piece" and concentrated on understanding what the rules and regulations mean to you.  If you still have question, the forum is here to help.

There is no "entitlement"; not even sure what you mean by that, my feral friend.

The Saint Posted at 8-8 08:13
You're confused if you use the term "bricked" the way you described.  If you insist on using it that way, fine you are welcome to your opinion; but I won't participate in those parts of the conversation because it is not the commonly accepted definition, it causes confusion when you use it out of context, and it is pejorative from the standpoint it seems you are trying to reinforce your points with negatives that aren't necessarily true.

A bricked drone does not fly; not today, no tomorrow, not ever.

We disagree on "entitlement".  The FAA exemption from registration and RID for flying recreational-only a sub-250g drone entitles me to fly my Mini 2 for recreational purposes now and into the future as long as the exemption is in force.  But will future DJI software/firmware allow me to do so?
Now, apply the logic in DJI Mindy's post above, and note especially the "to the maximum extent" section.   This  seems to imply that, post 9/16/2023, since DJI software/firmware will be unable to determine whether my flight is recreational or non-recreational, and applying DJI's "maximum extent" strategy, I will be unable to take off post-9/16/23 due to "RID error" because my Mini 2 has no RID capability.  I refer to this phenomenon as "bricking" my Mini 2.  I think my use of the terms "entitlement" and "brick" should now be clear, so let's not debate my use of them.  The question is simple: will DJI continue to allow me to fly my Mini 2 post- 9/16/2023 or not?   DJI Mindy suggests "no".

FeralUrchin Posted at 8-8 10:20
We disagree on "entitlement".  The FAA exemption from registration and RID for flying recreational-only a sub-250g drone entitles me to fly my Mini 2 for recreational purposes now and into the future as long as the exemption is in force.  But will future DJI software/firmware allow me to do so?
Now, apply the logic in DJI Mindy's post above, and note especially the "to the maximum extent" section.   This  seems to imply that, post 9/16/2023, since DJI software/firmware will be unable to determine whether my flight is recreational or non-recreational, and applying DJI's "maximum extent" strategy, I will be unable to take off post-9/16/23 due to "RID error" because my Mini 2 has no RID capability.  I refer to this phenomenon as "bricking" my Mini 2.  I think my use of the terms "entitlement" and "brick" should now be clear, so let's not debate my use of them.  The question is simple: will DJI continue to allow me to fly my Mini 2 post- 9/16/2023 or not?   DJI Mindy suggests "no".

A closely related question follows:  At some point the Mini 2--even if DJI continues to allow it to fly RID-less--will be discontinued and unavailable.  Will DJI offer a replacement drone that applies the FAA exemption (if it still exists)?  That is, will DJI offer a sub-250g drone without RID, or the ability of a recreational pilot to disable it?

It appears to me that DJI will not offer such a replacement for thr Mini 2 due to it's overreach of the FAA requirements (i.e. ignoring the exemption)..  My question again is simple: will DJI continue to offer a drone product qualifying for the exemption?  I'm looking for a simple "yes" or "no" answer.

DJI won't give you specifics of planned future products, I would assume they will put RID in all future USA products as to avoid Penalties.
As a photographer, I would think you would be interested in being a part 107 commercial pilot, which then means RID is mandatory.
If you post any photos or videos on youtube and make any income, or charge someone fees, or do an exchange for your work, the FAA can/will fine you.

videoeditman Posted at 8-8 11:05
DJI won't give you specifics of planned future products, I would assume they will put RID in all future USA products as to avoid Penalties.
As a photographer, I would think you would be interested in being a part 107 commercial pilot, which then means RID is mandatory.
If you post any photos or videos on youtube and make any income, or charge someone fees, or do an exchange for your work, the FAA can/will fine you.

I really appreciate your helpful response, as it goes a long way toword answering one of my concerns.  Thank you.

My remaing question is will DJI software/firmware released on or about 9/16/2023 "brick" (in the sense will prevent takeoff and flight) all Mini 2 drones not having RID?  I"ve been trying persistently to get this question answered, but so far no luck.

Thanks again for your help.  BTW I am an amature photographer/videographer.  I never sell or exchange for value any work I produce with my drone.  I am careful to continue qualifying for the FAA exemption for recreational/sub-250g flying.  If you have been following US news re: politics, COVID, education, the military, etc, you will probably conclude, as I have, that our federal government has departed from democracy and the rule of law, and--together with big tech--has been unlawfully surveilling its citizens.  Together with millions of other citizens, I do not trust my government and will never fly with RID.

FeralUrchin Posted at 8-8 10:20
We disagree on "entitlement".  The FAA exemption from registration and RID for flying recreational-only a sub-250g drone entitles me to fly my Mini 2 for recreational purposes now and into the future as long as the exemption is in force.  But will future DJI software/firmware allow me to do so?
Now, apply the logic in DJI Mindy's post above, and note especially the "to the maximum extent" section.   This  seems to imply that, post 9/16/2023, since DJI software/firmware will be unable to determine whether my flight is recreational or non-recreational, and applying DJI's "maximum extent" strategy, I will be unable to take off post-9/16/23 due to "RID error" because my Mini 2 has no RID capability.  I refer to this phenomenon as "bricking" my Mini 2.  I think my use of the terms "entitlement" and "brick" should now be clear, so let's not debate my use of them.  The question is simple: will DJI continue to allow me to fly my Mini 2 post- 9/16/2023 or not?   DJI Mindy suggests "no".

Yeah that could be part of the problem.  Your usage of certain words is far different than mine.  Think of it this way:  The FAA has said to the consumer only (not the manufacturer) that if your drone is less than 250g AND you use it strictly for fun or recreational purposes, the FAA does not require you to register your drone/RID details on the FAA portal.  To me, that's like giving a pass on registration.  It doesn't bestow any new rights or privileges or entitlements to the recreational pilots and if you look at it that way, no wonder you want to take your "rights" and go to the public and the manufacturers and says "look at what the FAA has given me, why are you infringing on me or taking away from me rights given by the FAA?"

One of the FAA rules given to the manufacturer is if you put standard RID in your drone, you must prevent the drone from taking off unless RID is activated and RID cannot be deactivated.  To me, this in no way detracts or conflicts with the FAA telling you (the recreational pilot) the conditions in which they will not legally force you to *register.*  When a manufacturer puts RID in a drone that you could have otherwise legally bypassed registration, as a responsible adult and a knowledgable consumer, you have the burden to see it for what it is and either move on to a different drone that is more suitable for your needs or recognize the fact that you still don't have to *register* (as the FAA has told you) but your RID details will still be transmitted (as the manufacturer has told you and as the FAA never told you they wouldn't be).  In America, the consumer has choices; instead of complaining, take what you are given and make the call for yourself understanding that it doesn't work out for everyone the same.  DJI has chosen the correct path for itself as well as what they believe is most suitable for their customer base as well as their future customers.  For sure, they have met the FAA requirement and have received a Declaration of Compliance.

Short answer is No.  Your Mini 2 will not be "grounded."  Not sure why you would think so, I can only guess that you believe DJI doesn't see things the way you see it, you feel they made the wrong decision, they don't offer you a suitable upgrade path, and you disagree with the direction their company is headed.  So you take the extra step and you try to label them with something derogatory like "bricking" a drone which is irresponsible and unprecedented and never implied.  The Mini 2 drone doesn't care whether you fly it recreational or commercial, when you fly it (after you have been told it is not standard RID), the burden is on the pilot to fly legally.  The FAA has told you (if you are listening) that you may have to add a broadcast module to your Mini 2 or fly in a FRIA.  Figure it out yourself or ask here if you need further guidance.  DJI has already told you "probably not" for RID but honestly, they don't own you a solid answer to their future plans; no promises.  For all they know, you work at "Autel" and you are trying to figure out if their future sub 250g drones should have RID or not.

There is no "maximum extent" strategy and if you don't see a Mini 2 RID error today, there will be no Mini 2 RID error tomorrow.  At this point, given DJI plans to take no action on Mini 2 with respect to RID, I translate that to mean we don't care what you do with your Mini 2 after the deadline, it's up to you, and we don't "continue to allow" anyone to fly or not.  If you take off on a commercial mission or with a heavy battery in your Mini 2 outside a FRIA and you don't transmit RID, that's your issue, between you and the FAA....not DJI.

As far as I know the Mini 2 is no longer manufactured.  One day it will be end of life and eventually, there will never be another Mini 2 flying in the FAA airspace ever again.  At that point, depending on your individual needs, it is absolutely possible you may never fly another DJI drone ever again.  Because DJI may or may not introduce a sub-250g drone without RID and it is super unlikely they would ever introduce a standard RID drone that can be RID disabled.  DJI is not in the business of extending a particular drone model indefinitely.  Instead, the Mini category will likely evolve.  And it will likely include full time RID.  At that point, those who are strictly looking to "qualify for the exemption" will likely be lost and like a smart consumer, will take their business elsewhere if necessary.  Because looking to fly a DJI Mini drone that doesn't transmit RID so you can "qualify as an exemption" just isn't a thing.

FeralUrchin Posted at 8-8 12:58
I really appreciate your helpful response, as it goes a long way toword answering one of my concerns.  Thank you.

My remaing question is will DJI software/firmware released on or about 9/16/2023 "brick" (in the sense will prevent takeoff and flight) all Mini 2 drones not having RID?  I"ve been trying persistently to get this question answered, but so far no luck.

First, the ONLY drones that DJI will "brick" are the ones with malfunctioning native RID. Older models have no checks for RID. The modules do NOT communicate with the drone or controller. Now for the "fun" stuff, your system already broadcasts all the info necessary to track you and your drone. That's how the radios communicate. So if you really want to avoid the gummint tracking you, sell ALL your electronics and move completely off the grid.

FeralUrchin Posted at 8-8 12:58
I really appreciate your helpful response, as it goes a long way toword answering one of my concerns.  Thank you.

My remaing question is will DJI software/firmware released on or about 9/16/2023 "brick" (in the sense will prevent takeoff and flight) all Mini 2 drones not having RID?  I"ve been trying persistently to get this question answered, but so far no luck.

As a continuation of my post above: I am so loath to allow my government to surveille me that I would give up droning entirely rather than fly with RID.  If we're correct in supposing that all future DJI products for the US will have mandatory RID, then I think it's fair to call out DJI for overreach of the FAA regulations, since DJI will be more restrictive than the FAA requires.

In the above case of overreach of FAA requirements, it may reasonably be asked "Why is DJI doing this?"  Is DJI responding to some other government's requirements?   Recall that DJI is a Chinese company and is required to follow the CCP's regulations.  In news reporting we see ample evidence of Chinese digital espionage against the US and its citizens.  Is DJI's (suspected) future prevention of RID-less flying DJI's own decision or is it a requirement of the CCP?

The Saint Posted at 8-8 13:20
Yeah that could be part of the problem.  Your usage of certain words is far different than mine.  Think of it this way:  The FAA has said to the consumer only (not the manufacturer) that if your drone is less than 250g AND you use it strictly for fun or recreational purposes, the FAA does not require you to register your drone/RID details on the FAA portal.  To me, that's like giving a pass on registration.  It doesn't bestow any new rights or privileges or entitlements to the recreational pilots and if you look at it that way, no wonder you want to take your "rights" and go to the public and the manufacturers and says "look at what the FAA has given me, why are you infringing on me or taking away from me rights given by the FAA?"

One of the FAA rules given to the manufacturer is if you put standard RID in your drone, you must prevent the drone from taking off unless RID is activated and RID cannot be deactivated.  To me, this in no way detracts or conflicts with the FAA telling you (the recreational pilot) the conditions in which they will not legally force you to *register.*  When a manufacturer puts RID in a drone that you could have otherwise legally bypassed registration, as a responsible adult and a knowledgable consumer, you have the burden to see it for what it is and either move on to a different drone that is more suitable for your needs or recognize the fact that you still don't have to *register* (as the FAA has told you) but your RID details will still be transmitted (as the manufacturer has told you and as the FAA never told you they wouldn't be).  In America, the consumer has choices; instead of complaining, take what you are given and make the call for yourself understanding that it doesn't work out for everyone the same.  DJI has chosen the correct path for itself as well as what they believe is most suitable for their customer base as well as their future customers.  For sure, they have met the FAA requirement and have received a Declaration of Compliance.

I have been concerned that near-future DJI software/firmware updates will "brick" (prevent take-off) my Mini 2 unless it has fuctioning RID.  If I understand correctly, you assure me that this will not happen.  Finally I have a straightforward answer to my straightforward question.  Thank you.  My only remaing question is whether you speak accurately for DJI.  And I could have done without your lengthy philosophizing, moralizing and admonitions.  But, hey, thank you again anyway.

Mobilehomer Posted at 8-8 13:31
First, the ONLY drones that DJI will "brick" are the ones with malfunctioning native RID. Older models have no checks for RID. The modules do NOT communicate with the drone or controller. Now for the "fun" stuff, your system already broadcasts all the info necessary to track you and your drone. That's how the radios communicate. So if you really want to avoid the gummint tracking you, sell ALL your electronics and move completely off the grid.

Mobilehomer, Thank you for your succinct and helpful response.  I fly my Mini 2 unregistered with the RC 231 controller using a SIM-less smartphone as the display.  Do I understand correctly that I can still be tracked?  Over the Internet?  If so, why does RID exist?

FeralUrchin Posted at 8-8 14:01
I have been concerned that near-future DJI software/firmware updates will "brick" (prevent take-off) my Mini 2 unless it has fuctioning RID.  If I understand correctly, you assure me that this will not happen.  Finally I have a straightforward answer to my straightforward question.  Thank you.  My only remaing question is whether you speak accurately for DJI.  And I could have done without your lengthy philosophizing, moralizing and admonitions.  But, hey, thank you again anyway.

You're welcome.  It wasn't just for you but for anyone else who maybe didn't fully understand what I am thinking and in the future, may want more information on what I am describing.   Sometimes it takes "alot" to respond to "alot" which you posted.  Check my previous posts for where I mentioned if I speak accurately for DJI or not; it should be apparent since you are a forum member and have already had contact with representatives from DJI.  I think you're being a bit silly in that regard.  However, while I cannot control what you do with your own drone, I can assure you that the implementation of RID by the FAA will not cause DJI to prevent your Mini 2 from ever taking off again.

The Saint Posted at 8-8 14:13
You're welcome.  It wasn't just for you but for anyone else who maybe didn't fully understand what I am thinking and in the future, may want more information on what I am describing.   Sometimes it takes "alot" to respond to "alot" which you posted.  Check my previous posts for where I mentioned if I speak accurately for DJI or not; it should be apparent since you are a forum member and have already had contact with representatives from DJI.  I think you're being a bit silly in that regard.  However, while I cannot control what you do with your own drone, I can assure you that the implementation of RID by the FAA will not cause DJI to prevent your Mini 2 from ever taking off again.

@Saint:  Excellent news.  I would now welcome your succinct analysis, if you have one, of why DJI has mandated RID for all future drones when the FAA does not require it for sub-250g recreational flying.  I refer to this circumstance as "DJI overreach" of FAA regulations. I offer as possible explanation that the Chinese government has mandated such "overreach".  Your comment?

Mobilehomer Posted at 8-8 13:31
First, the ONLY drones that DJI will "brick" are the ones with malfunctioning native RID. Older models have no checks for RID. The modules do NOT communicate with the drone or controller. Now for the "fun" stuff, your system already broadcasts all the info necessary to track you and your drone. That's how the radios communicate. So if you really want to avoid the gummint tracking you, sell ALL your electronics and move completely off the grid.

@Mobilehomer:  I'm still hoping you will respond to my question about being tracked with my Mini 2 setup as you claimed.

FeralUrchin Posted at 8-8 15:28
@Mobilehomer:  I'm still hoping you will respond to my question about being tracked with my Mini 2 setup as you claimed.

ANY radio broadcast can be tracked. Think about it.

FeralUrchin Posted at 8-8 14:44
@Saint:  Excellent news.  I would now welcome your succinct analysis, if you have one, of why DJI has mandated RID for all future drones when the FAA does not require it for sub-250g recreational flying.  I refer to this circumstance as "DJI overreach" of FAA regulations. I offer as possible explanation that the Chinese government has mandated such "overreach".  Your comment?

DJI has not mandated RID for all future drones.  And this has nothing to do with the CCP.  It may or may not be a company strategy, you'll need to press DJI if you want to know their plans.  Perhaps DJI is not in the business of creating drones to support "RID-less recreational flyers of sub-250g drone" crowd, I dunno.

As far as I know, the FAA only requires one thing (mostly) from drone manufacturers:  If you manufacturer a drone after 2022, you shall included standard RID.  Do you remember reading about that?  Says something along the lines of "September 16, 2022: Drone manufacturers will have to comply with Remote ID as of this date, meaning that all drones produced by a drone maker must comply with standard RID."

Perhaps this is the way DJI lawyers have read it:  if you want to make drones (for sale and use in the USA in the future), include RID.  As far as they are concerned, perhaps they were never given a pass or an exemption from the FAA.  We all know that recreational pilots of 250g drones are given such a pass but I'm pretty sure DJI was not handed the same pass or at least, they decided the exception was not applicable to them as manufacturers.

So why would DJI decide for themselves that producing a drone after 2022 and selling it in the USA without standard ID and without obtaining a MoC is not in their best interest?  I dunno but I can only guess that 1) it's too easy to comply with RID going forward so why not, 2) there isn't enough demand for such an animal, 3) they are not 100% sure they even have the option to begin with, and 4) in the future when RID comes to other countries, makes no sense to let this minor detail trip them up just in case it isn't allowed elsewhere.

The last thing DJI wants it a complex assortment of drones that have to be supported differently based on whether it has RID or not.  if you believe the wave of the future is RID and you are pro-RID, you call it and then go from there.  All of your materials, all of your statements, all of your processes will be the same and eventually will never need to call out all the "exceptions."  You never need to declare a certain model cannot be flown in the EU or cannot be used for commercial purpose or had to be used in conjunction with a broadcast module, why?  Because all of our drones are "RID-ready."  the goal is to forever get rid of the "Remote ID error" message.

No doubt the goal of the FAA is to one day have every single drone flying in teh airspace to have RID.  Without forcing this completely onto flyers right away, the best way to get started is to stop the endless flow of toy drones without RID coming in from China.  Over time, older drones would die off if you cut it off now.  There are no promises that DJI won't roll out a drone or two without RID but it appears unlikely.  I'm not the expert but I just don't see how you can launch a new sub-250g drone with no RID and expect it to really go anywhere.  I understand how the affected crowd feels adversely impacted by this potential decision even though they'll likely have dozens of other non-DJI drones to choose from....I get it, people want DJI.  Perhaps when Mini 4 Pro rolls out with RID, they create Mini 4R for "recreational" or Remote-id-less.  When I see a bunch of older DJI drones getting RID (signaling DJI is trying as best they can to bring everything into compliance), makes no sense to be to re-bleed from the other end and roll out new equipment without RID.

FeralUrchin Posted at 8-8 14:44
@Saint:  Excellent news.  I would now welcome your succinct analysis, if you have one, of why DJI has mandated RID for all future drones when the FAA does not require it for sub-250g recreational flying.  I refer to this circumstance as "DJI overreach" of FAA regulations. I offer as possible explanation that the Chinese government has mandated such "overreach".  Your comment?

I am so loath to allow my government to surveille me that I would give up droning entirely rather than fly with RID.
In that case, I think the best solution for you would be to give up drones and take up folding paper planes.

If we're correct in supposing that all future DJI products for the US will have mandatory RID, then I think it's fair to call out DJI for overreach of the FAA regulations, since DJI will be more restrictive than the FAA requires.
Ahh .. the mind of a paranoid conspiracy theorist.
You are always going to be a slave to your irrational fears.

Paranoia strikes deep
Into your life it will creep
It starts when you're always afraid
Step out of line, the men come and take you away

You should try living in the fact-based world for a change.

why DJI has mandated RID for all future drones when the FAA does not require it for sub-250g recreational flying.  I refer to this circumstance as "DJI overreach" of FAA regulations. I offer as possible explanation that the Chinese government has mandated such "overreach".  Your comment?
You've already had that explained clearly and simply by the DJI moderator.

The Saint Posted at 8-8 15:40
DJI has not mandated RID for all future drones.  And this has nothing to do with the CCP.  It may or may not be a company strategy, you'll need to press DJI if you want to know their plans.  Perhaps DJI is not in the business of creating drones to support "RID-less recreational flyers of sub-250g drone" crowd, I dunno.

As far as I know, the FAA only requires one thing (mostly) from drone manufacturers:  If you manufacturer a drone after 2022, you shall included standard RID.  Do you remember reading about that?  Says something along the lines of "September 16, 2022: Drone manufacturers will have to comply with Remote ID as of this date, meaning that all drones produced by a drone maker must comply with standard RID."

@Saint: Thank you for your very thoughtful and thorough reply.

dnddad324 Posted at 8-8 02:56
DJI Mindy,

If that is true that RID is in the Mini 3 Pro and the Mini 3 due to 'the manufacturer is unable to determine whether the DJI Mini 3 Pro was used for a recreational or business purposes' then wouldn't that apply to the DJI Mini 2 as well. Obviously, the DJI Mini 2 is capable of RID since in Japan the DJI Mini 2's received the firmware update to activate the RID.

For DJI (drone manufacturer) compliance, the regulations do not require that drones that weigh 0.55 pounds or less (less than 250 grams) have the Remote ID function. That is, drones that weigh 0.55 pounds or less (less than 250 grams) may not have the Remote ID function, such as DJI Mini, DJI Mini 2, DJI Mini 2 SE, and Tello. Thanks for your understanding.

FeralUrchin Posted at 8-8 10:20
We disagree on "entitlement".  The FAA exemption from registration and RID for flying recreational-only a sub-250g drone entitles me to fly my Mini 2 for recreational purposes now and into the future as long as the exemption is in force.  But will future DJI software/firmware allow me to do so?
Now, apply the logic in DJI Mindy's post above, and note especially the "to the maximum extent" section.   This  seems to imply that, post 9/16/2023, since DJI software/firmware will be unable to determine whether my flight is recreational or non-recreational, and applying DJI's "maximum extent" strategy, I will be unable to take off post-9/16/23 due to "RID error" because my Mini 2 has no RID capability.  I refer to this phenomenon as "bricking" my Mini 2.  I think my use of the terms "entitlement" and "brick" should now be clear, so let's not debate my use of them.  The question is simple: will DJI continue to allow me to fly my Mini 2 post- 9/16/2023 or not?   DJI Mindy suggests "no".

Hi there, please note that for DJI (drone manufacturer) compliance, the regulations do not require that drones that weigh 0.55 pounds or less (less than 250 grams) have the Remote ID function. That is, drones that weigh 0.55 pounds or less (less than 250 grams) may not have the Remote ID function, such as DJI Mini, DJI Mini 2, DJI Mini 2 SE, and Tello. For purely recreational flight users, after 2023.9.16, you can still use the Mini 2 as before.

DJI Mindy Posted at 8-9 02:59
Hi there, please note that for DJI (drone manufacturer) compliance, the regulations do not require that drones that weigh 0.55 pounds or less (less than 250 grams) have the Remote ID function. That is, drones that weigh 0.55 pounds or less (less than 250 grams) may not have the Remote ID function, such as DJI Mini, DJI Mini 2, DJI Mini 2 SE, and Tello. For purely recreational flight users, after 2023.9.16, you can still use the Mini 2 as before.

Thank you DJI Mindy for your direct and helpful response!

Now, I'm still trying to develop a personal plan in response to what I can perceive of DJI's future plans, if any, for RID-less drones.  As noted above, tens of millions of Americans like me have lost trust in the US federal government, since it appears to have departed from democracy and the rule of law and is trending toward a surveillance state.

Obviously, it's DJI's own business what products it will offer.  At the same time I feel an intense reluctance to allow the FAA to track my flights, even though they are purely for creating landscape videos for my own enjoyment and usually taken in remote locations.

If I were to conclude that DJI will not offer a RID-less successor to the Mini 2 (which is no longer manufactured I'm told) I should begin looking for an alternate vendor.  Can you shed any light on this issue?  Thank you for your continued support and understanding.