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Please Release the DLOG-M Color Space (DCTL/IDT/ODT) Information!
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ronj
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DJI,
Obviously you're using DLOG-M in multiple drones and cameras now.  And in the past you've stated that you won't release the color space information (per this thread).  But you've got a great camera and your competition (GoPro) has now released their GP-LOG format.  For people to get the best out of DLOG-M we need more than a LUT, we need DCTL's so that NLE's (e.g. Davinci Resolve) can use math to perform exact conversions to squeeze the highest quality video out of your 10-bit DLOG-M format.  Your DLOG-M to Rec 709 LUT throws out color information to fit into the Rec 709 color space.  We want the full color range that the camera is capturing!  You've got a bigger sensor with bigger pixels, please let us see the highest quality it can produce by officially releasing the DCTL's and/or the data necessary (see the whitepaper you produced for D-LOG attached and produce the same for DLOG-M) for others to produce them!

For now, here's the best workaround I've found.  Interestingly, the following Input Gamma settings appear to be nearly identical:  Rec. 2100 HLG, ARIB STD-B67 HLG, and Rec. 2100 HLG (Scene).  But to be clear, what I'm asking for is for you to release the true "Input Gamma" and produce a DCTL so that we could use "Input Gamma:  DJI D-LogM" for that setting in Davinci Resolve (and other NLE's)!

  

Workaround

Workaround


D-Log_D-Gamut_Whitepaper.pdf (255.45 KB, Down times: 47)
Davinci Resolve Color Transform for DJI DLOG-M.jpg
2023-9-14
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DJI Paladin
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Hi there. Thank you for reaching out. I will take this as a suggestion of yours and will forward it to our designated team for attention.  After the evaluation of the engineers, significant suggestions or requests will be implemented via the firmware update, app update, etc. For any updates, please stay tuned to the latest news on our DJI official website at www.dji.com. Thank you for your understanding and support.
2023-9-14
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nacelle.proud0y
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New Zealand
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resolve colourists would very much appreciate a Lut, or DCTL which provides an accurate transform of Dji DLog-m into a standard managed timeline colourspace such as DaVinci Wide Gamut /Davinci Intermediate,
Or explicit guidance as to how to achieve this in a CST workflow. Modifying the built in Resolve(18.6)  option which recognises DJi Dlog, but which is clearly a different camera colourspace.

Direct transform to a very limited colourspace such as Rec.709 such as available via the present Dji Dlog-m to Rec.709 lut does not provide colourists with a wholly adequate timeline colourspace to make the best use of dji 10 bit footage.

In the absence of a useful transform into a wide gamut/ wide gamma timeline, out of gamut excursions can not be properly managed by colourists.  The present one simplist lut conversion to rec.709 solution is so 2018, and out of date in a modern workflow. And limits the use of footage shot on DJi cameras in professional settings, in which grading is expected to focus more on grading than basic correction.
Thank you for your consideration.
2023-9-18
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ronj
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DJI,

As further proof, the GP-LOG requisite information is already known.  It's in their open LOG format within GoPro's lab software.   It's LOG Base 400 (proven by this video ) and they show the details in their Log calculator here https://www.desmos.com/calculator/sfxqtunzty thus it's only a matter of time before someone creates a DCTL that converts GP-LOG into Davinci Wide Gamut/Intermediate.  We need this information for DLOG-M!
2023-9-18
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ronj
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Is anyone is able to take the requisite pictures described here with their OSMO Action 4: https://github.com/thatcherfreem ... c/image_capture.pdf. With those we can deduce the math needed and with that there is a DCTL developer who said he'd make a DCTL to convert DLOG-M to DWG/Intermediate.  That might be the best next step.
2023-9-22
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Mart
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This is indeed needed, there are critical workflows that require a working CST  for D-log-M. It's not like this is new either DJI, my Air2S has had D-Log-M for over two years. Not having the CST is a real pain for those of us who are trying to get the best out of the drone footage. I often don't even bother with D-log anymore since you've not provided the information for Black Magic Design to be able to built the correct CST.

You are releasing more and more drones and action cameras with D-log-M, you need to step up to the plate and provide the information to those who need it to make the colour space transforms.
2023-10-1
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ronj
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DJI Paladin Posted at 9-14 18:39
Hi there. Thank you for reaching out. I will take this as a suggestion of yours and will forward it to our designated team for attention.  After the evaluation of the engineers, significant suggestions or requests will be implemented via the firmware update, app update, etc. For any updates, please stay tuned to the latest news on our DJI official website at www.dji.com. Thank you for your understanding and support.

Any update on this?
2023-10-2
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DJI Paladin
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ronj Posted at 10-2 14:13
Any update on this?

Hi, ronj. We haven't received updates related to this request. Please know that all suggestions need to undergo evaluation and unfortunately, that takes time.  Also,  all customers can provide their suggestions and we will be more than happy to forward them to our relevant team but not everything will be approved as there may be some limitations such as technical or firmware limitations. Thank you for your understanding.
2023-10-4
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Wolf69
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Hey ronj,

Thanks for this'topic i have also come up'with the same results.

Question, do you know why the size by exporting with these settings the size of the file seems to be divided by 1/5?

I have another isssue, my iphone/ipad seems to see the new clip as HDR but not my tv (LG OLED CX) by using multiple player that are usually reading all HDR/DV content (Kodi, plex etc)
EDIT: i have found out why...my device (nvidia shield) can't play HDR LG thats why, by using my TV embedded'player the HDR logo is shown
2023-10-8
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ronj
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Wolf69 Posted at 10-8 03:46
Hey ronj,

Thanks for this'topic i have also come up'with the same results.

Interesting, but no, I don't know why the file size and HDR settings are set the way you mention.  Essentially, setting the CST like the workaround in this bug is not responsible for either.  Your export settings control the file size and HDR settings.  I'd suggest you look there.
2023-10-8
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Wolf69
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ronj Posted at 10-8 04:29
Interesting, but no, I don't know why the file size and HDR settings are set the way you mention.  Essentially, setting the CST like the workaround in this bug is not responsible for either.  Your export settings control the file size and HDR settings.  I'd suggest you look there.

You have the same file size when exporting?
2023-10-8
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ronj
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Wolf69 Posted at 10-8 05:22
You have the same file size when exporting?

I never looked at the file size.  I export in HEVC mp4.
2023-10-8
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BinaryDigits
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I have made a similar request over on the Pocket 3 forum, and cross-referenced with this post.
2023-11-24
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DaLyR
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DJI Paladin Posted at 9-14 18:39
Hi there. Thank you for reaching out. I will take this as a suggestion of yours and will forward it to our designated team for attention.  After the evaluation of the engineers, significant suggestions or requests will be implemented via the firmware update, app update, etc. For any updates, please stay tuned to the latest news on our DJI official website at www.dji.com. Thank you for your understanding and support.

We need it!!!
2023-11-25
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DJI Paladin
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Hi there. We're sorry if this has been requested in the past but has not been implemented yet. We will continue to let such feedback reach the designated team for consideration. Your understanding is highly appreciated.
2023-11-27
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DJI-ytao
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Hi ronj.

As your figured it out. the curve is quite similar with HLG.

You can use HLG whitepaper for alternative.
2023-11-27
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ronj
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DJI-ytao Posted at 11-27 04:23
Hi ronj.

As your figured it out. the curve is quite similar with HLG.

So why not publish the exact white paper we need?  Close is not exact and we are all asking for exact.  That’s what we need to unlock the quality captured by the camera.
2023-11-27
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mastix
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Yes. I agree with everything stated here. I hope DJI gets it out as soon as possible. There are many drone users that are editing and want this feature. D-LOG does not cut it. D-Log M profile please.
2023-11-30
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mastix
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Mart Posted at 10-1 12:57
This is indeed needed, there are critical workflows that require a working CST  for D-log-M. It's not like this is new either DJI, my Air2S has had D-Log-M for over two years. Not having the CST is a real pain for those of us who are trying to get the best out of the drone footage. I often don't even bother with D-log anymore since you've not provided the information for Black Magic Design to be able to built the correct CST.

You are releasing more and more drones and action cameras with D-log-M, you need to step up to the plate and provide the information to those who need it to make the colour space transforms.

DJI are you listening? There are many drone users shooting in D-Log M frustrated because of this lack of support to a crucial demand of your clients.
2023-11-30
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fans03a51f39
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mastix Posted at 11-30 02:04
DJI are you listening? There are many drone users shooting in D-Log M frustrated because of this lack of support to a crucial demand of your clients.

Not only drone users need this, Action users as well as Pocket users need it too. I have a feeling the competition will catch on to this and gives us what we need...
2023-12-3
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fans03a51f39
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ronj Posted at 9-22 11:20
Is anyone is able to take the requisite pictures described here with their OSMO Action 4: https://github.com/thatcherfreeman/log2lin-finder/blob/master/image_capture_doc/image_capture.pdf. With those we can deduce the math needed and with that there is a DCTL developer who said he'd make a DCTL to convert DLOG-M to DWG/Intermediate.  That might be the best next step.

I've done that already for the Pocket 3 and Action 4. They're still a work in progress but way better than using the d-logm>Rec709 correction lut... and puts you into a DWG timeline... makes it much easier to match shots from other cameras...
2023-12-3
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ronj
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fans03a51f39 Posted at 12-3 11:50
I've done that already for the Pocket 3 and Action 4. They're still a work in progress but way better than using the d-logm>Rec709 correction lut... and puts you into a DWG timeline... makes it much easier to match shots from other cameras...

Do you mind sharing the pictures?  If so we can get the conversion made for everyone to use!
2023-12-3
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utkin
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Re: "For now, here's the best workaround I've found.  Interestingly, the following Input Gamma settings appear to be nearly identical:  Rec. 2100 HLG, ARIB STD-B67 HLG, and Rec. 2100 HLG (Scene)."

That's cool suggestion, I tried Dji D-Log gamma and it crashes blacks. Not sure based on what data Blackmagic built that DCT. Rec 2100 HLG level more breathing space. Totally agree that DJI should published DCT data
@ronj do you increase contrast and move pivot to the right?



PS Sorry, the forum GUI looks too outdated and not intuitive, i cannot find way to quote it tag people
2023-12-4
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ronj
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@ronj do you increase contrast and move pivot to the right?

@utkin - I'm not sure what I do after that...I do whatever appears correct to my eye.
2023-12-4
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djiuser_6ZVsdGbdEArT
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Hey guys, posting DJI's response to my support inquiry via email, which I wrote up and sent after reading this thread. It seems we're going to be left in the dark from their response.

Apologies if I made any factual mistakes, I'm fairly new to this.

------------------

Hello,

I'm writing to express a strong desire, which myself and many others have, that DJI release detailed information about their DLOG-M color space, as you have done with DLOG.

There are a few threads active which express the same desire linked below.

Please Release the DLOG-M Color Space (DCTL/IDT/ODT) Information!
Color Space Transform Support for DJI DLog-M and D-Cinelike
DLOG-M & HLG colour spaces

I recently bought a Mini 4 Pro and love shooting in Dlog-M. However, because DJI has not released detailed information about Dlog-M's color space, I'm forced to guess the input color space settings to make the footage look "good enough" during the color grading process. Davinci Resolve and all other color grading tools do not have a "Dlog-M" input color space option because DJI has not released sufficient information about it.

I am well aware you have released a Dlog-M to Rec.709 LUT, which is great for people who want to quickly edit their footage. However, Rec.709 is an inherently limited color space which discards the very information Dlog-M is there to provide! This is akin to selling someone a fast car, but artificially limiting how fast it can go, and creates difficulties for the customers who use your products professionally.

Even if DJI is not willing to release detailed information, at least release a LUT from Dlog-M to a color space wider than Rec.709. I simply do not understand the decision made by DJI to make Dlog-M available in its products, but not release more than a limited LUT to support its post processing.

I'm writing this email in the hopes of details regarding:

1. Is DJI willing to release more information about the Dlog-M color space than a Rec.709 LUT
2. If not, why?
3. If not, how do you suggest users color grade Dmog-M footage besides using a Rec.709 LUT? (Which only gives us the same limited dynamic range as your "Normal" color profile modes)

If I am misunderstanding aspects of how to use Dlog-M, please correct me. I would welcome the correction - I am simply looking for a solution to fully harness the dynamic range of the Dlog-M color space, and from what it appears, the main roadblock is DJI not releasing sufficient detail regarding the color space.

I appreciate your time reading this, thank you.

---------------------------------------

Dear customer,

Thank you for contacting DJI Technical Support.

We are grateful to assist you with your concern. After confirming with the DJI  engineering team, the official list currently provided is only  Rec.709.We do not have any information about if it will release a new  version. If you have higher requirements for color correction, we  recommend you do some research on it. We can help you with feedback on  this request if you want.

If you have any more questions, please don't hesitate to contact us.

Thanks for choosing DJI products. Have a nice day!

Best Regards,
Louis
DJI Technical Support
Online Service: Click Here (Mon-Sun 00:00-24:00)
Website: https://www.dji.com/support   

2023-12-7
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ronj
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djiuser_6ZVsdGbdEArT Posted at 12-7 14:52
Hey guys, posting DJI's response to my support inquiry via email, which I wrote up and sent after reading this thread. It seems we're going to be left in the dark from their response.

Apologies if I made any factual mistakes, I'm fairly new to this.

Thanks for trying.  It sounds like they misunderstood your request.
2023-12-7
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Peitsch
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Please add d-log m color information. Without it, the color gradin can never be taken to the nest level.
1-1 17:03
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R4Dives
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Peitsch Posted at 1-1 17:03
Please add d-log m color information. Without it, the color gradin can never be taken to the nest level.

Enabling D-LogM is a gimmick and makes videos look worse (after grading). Change my mind.
1-1 20:06
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djiuser_LahyCA46FZYq
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Hello.

I doubt anything will happen unless the issues are made more public.

I've created this bitly link which directs here and so I suggest folks put this on any social media posts that mention devices that support D-Log M

------------
Hello @DJIGlobal please provide support for #D-logM?

You provide LUT to convert into rec709 which is pointless. Doing that removes any benefit of recording DLogM and may as well set camera to record 709.

Please can you provide info requested.
https://bit.ly/DJI-D-LOG-M

Thanks
-----------




1-6 17:51
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djiuser_LahyCA46FZYq
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P.s.  how do I change my forum name?

P.p.s. QR Below
bit.ly_DJI-D-LOG-M.png
bit.ly_DJI-D-LOG-M (1).png
1-6 17:53
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djiuser_LahyCA46FZYq
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Hello again DJI thank you for your earlier responses to the other user questions. However the responses suggests that maybe you don't understand the reason for the complaint.

The issue is DJI advertised D-LOG M as ... "10-bit D-Log M [3] color mode gives you over one billion colors and a wider dynamic range to play with in post."

However, D-LOG M cannot work as advertised because DJI have only supplied D-LOG M into Rec 709 LUT table. That will throw away the wider colour range outside REC 709 colour range, or compress into Rec709.
This means those "one billion colours and a wider dynamic range" are not actually accessible to "...play with in post".

If DJI release rules for D-LOG M properly and not LUT to rec709 then instead we can access those billion colours and wider colour range.
But until then we cannot and may as well record in normal/rec709. Any mention of extended range is misleading/false advertising and we must challenge DJI wherever DJI says that.

Thank you
Chri
1-7 05:22
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lvovych
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DJI, add D-Log profile. We all need it!
1-14 02:09
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djiuser_hCIK6bTPIuOl
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DJI, add D-Log M profile. We all need it!
1-18 13:16
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gio37540
lvl.3
France
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DJI, add D-Log M profile. We all need it!
1-21 06:58
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m326
Second Officer
United Kingdom
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DJI, please add D-Log M profile. Your claims of increased colour range & greater dynamic range is a false sales tactic and misleading your customers.
1-21 07:23
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sunseekerfoto
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Just ordered a Action 4 and came back to check this topic. Previously my google search for Air 3 D-log M sent me here, but that was 4 months ago, thought it might have been resolved, sad to see people are still waiting and asking. Please, DJI, take note and more importantly, take action!
1-22 21:11
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djiuser_LahyCA46FZYq
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@dji bueller bueller
1-26 17:25
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gio37540
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France
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any updates ?  seems DJI is hiding something .......
2-2 12:30
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Sgnt
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Canada
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@DJI - be good and listen. We need to do real CST with your D-Log M. Make this feature a real feature that can be used. Thank you!
2-5 19:32
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utkin
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DJI Paladin Posted at 2023-11-27 03:19
Hi there. We're sorry if this has been requested in the past but has not been implemented yet. We will continue to let such feedback reach the designated team for consideration. Your understanding is highly appreciated.

How much longer we need to wait for official D-LogM color transform function? Currently grading D-LogM footage is pain actually.
DJI has never been client friendly but now I can see GoPro in Davinci Resolve but not D-Log. With all respect do you encourage us moving away from DJI?
2-5 21:37
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