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FLying near sea
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Potato mini
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I've heard mixed reveiws about this, but is it bad for a Mini 3 Pro to fly near the sea because of the salt in the air?

2023-9-29
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Labroides
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That depends on how much you expose your drone to salt spray.
If you fly down low in the spray on the back of waves and do it a lot, it's eventually going to be bad.
But if you fly 10 metres or more up, you can probably do it for years and still have a healthy drone.
2023-9-29
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DJI Gamora
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Hi, Potato mini. Thank you for reaching out. Air Salt does not affect aircraft but please be careful to avoid areas with specular reflection such as water. We recommend that you not fly the aircraft close to the water, as flying on the water's surface will affect the normal function of visual positioning, and the aircraft may fall into the water due to the impact on positioning accuracy.
2023-9-29
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Potato mini
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DJI Gamora Posted at 9-29 19:33
Hi, Potato mini. Thank you for reaching out. Air Salt does not affect aircraft but please be careful to avoid areas with specular reflection such as water. We recommend that you not fly the aircraft close to the water, as flying on the water's surface will affect the normal function of visual positioning, and the aircraft may fall into the water due to the impact on positioning accuracy.

That's NOT what i asked. I asked if it's bad to fly NEAR, not above, because of the salt in the air.
2023-9-29
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Potato mini
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Labroides Posted at 9-29 19:17
That depends on how much you expose your drone to salt spray.
If you fly down low in the spray on the back of waves and do it a lot, it's eventually going to be bad.
But if you fly 10 metres or more up, you can probably do it for years and still have a healthy drone.

thanks for the info.
2023-9-29
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Sean-bumble-bee
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Potato mini Posted at 9-29 20:24
Hi, Potato mini. Thank you for reaching out. Air Salt does not affect aircraft but ple.....     That's NOT what i asked. I asked if it's bad to fly NEAR, not above, because of the salt in the air.

and Gamora said "Air Salt does not affect aircraft ..." which addresses your question, did you happen to miss it?
You quote it, so that would have been quite an oversight.
She then gave additional advice.
For that matter, why didn't you question Labroides advice? You did not mention flying in "spray".

Labroides advice about spray is, of course, correct but spray, when "near the sea", by which I assume you mean "over land but near the sea", is, in my experience of living on a coastline for 30+ years, only a risk when there is significant on-shore wind and I would question whether or not it is wise to be flying in such wind.
2023-9-29
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Labroides
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DJI Gamora Posted at 9-29 19:33
Hi, Potato mini. Thank you for reaching out. Air Salt does not affect aircraft but please be careful to avoid areas with specular reflection such as water. We recommend that you not fly the aircraft close to the water, as flying on the water's surface will affect the normal function of visual positioning, and the aircraft may fall into the water due to the impact on positioning accuracy.

Stop spreading this misinformation.
What you continue to copy and paste is completely false.
It doesn't inspire confidence when DJI moderators keep spreading misinformation.
2023-9-29
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DAFlys
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Fly near and over salt water pretty much every day for total of 8000km and Ive not had any corrosion issues that are visible,  some older drones like the Mavic Pro did tarnish some of the metal.
2023-9-30
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gnirtS
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If you fly the drone very close to the sea and where theres spray it can cause issues im sure.

If you dont do that and wipe/store it properly after the flight (ie not in salty air) its not going to cause a problem.

My M1,M2P and Mini 3 are flown most of the time over the sea and other than some cosmetic pitting have no issue at all.

2023-9-30
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Burt37
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Labroides Posted at 9-29 23:36
Stop spreading this misinformation.
What you continue to copy and paste is completely false.
It doesn't inspire confidence when DJI moderators keep spreading misinformation.

Is that a fact?
2023-9-30
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Bashy
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Labroides Posted at 9-29 23:36
Stop spreading this misinformation.
What you continue to copy and paste is completely false.
It doesn't inspire confidence when DJI moderators keep spreading misinformation.

I dont see anything incorrect in that reply, which part is false?
2023-9-30
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Labroides
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Bashy Posted at 9-30 03:21
I dont see anything incorrect in that reply, which part is false?

How about this?
We recommend that you not fly the aircraft close to the water, as flying on the water's surface will affect the normal function of visual positioning, and the aircraft may fall into the water due to the impact on positioning accuracy.

A minor issue with (horizontal) positioning accuracy is never going to make a drone fall into the water.
2023-9-30
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Sean-bumble-bee
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Labroides Posted at 9-30 03:30
How about this? We recommend that you not fly the aircraft close to the water, as flying on the water's surface will affect the normal function of visual positioning, and the aircraft may fall into the water due to the impact on positioning accuracy.

"A minor issue with (horizontal) positioning accuracy is never going to make a drone fall into the water."

They did not include the word " horizontal",  wouldn't a change in height also be a change in position?
2023-9-30
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Labroides
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Sean-bumble-bee Posted at 9-30 03:51
"A minor issue with (horizontal) positioning accuracy is never going to make a drone fall into the water."

They did not include the word " horizontal",  wouldn't a change in height also be a change in position?

The moderator doesn't fly drones and doesn't know how they work.
She just copies and pastes from a script and perpetuates myths.

The issue that the moderator was referring to was horizontal positioning.
That's what the downward sensors do over land , but over water they cannot do that successfully.

2023-9-30
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Bashy
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Labroides Posted at 9-30 03:30
How about this?
We recommend that you not fly the aircraft close to the water, as flying on the water's surface will affect the normal function of visual positioning, and the aircraft may fall into the water due to the impact on positioning accuracy.

Fall is a poor choice of word of which we can forgive for obvious reasons, but surely you knew what she meant? I mean, we all know (who participate here) that the visioning system has been the reason for, at the very least, 1 drone's swimming lessons.
2023-9-30
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gnirtS
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Labroides Posted at 9-30 03:30
How about this?
We recommend that you not fly the aircraft close to the water, as flying on the water's surface will affect the normal function of visual positioning, and the aircraft may fall into the water due to the impact on positioning accuracy.

Water, particularly very calm caused Mavic 1s and other drones to auto land in water quite often.
It fools the VPS, sometimes causing a rapid climb, sometimes thinking its landing.
2023-9-30
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Space Dream
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gnirtS Posted at 9-30 06:29
Water, particularly very calm caused Mavic 1s and other drones to auto land in water quite often.
It fools the VPS, sometimes causing a rapid climb, sometimes thinking its landing.

There seem to be different opinions on this point, but I can also imagine that water reflections and turbulent wave movements can lead to confusion. And I think to be on the safe side DJI recommends to do it with great caution or rather not at all. Even if it often goes well, maybe not once, no idea but I would be very skeptical with a 100% statement.
2023-9-30
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JJB*
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DJI Gamora Posted at 9-29 19:33
Hi, Potato mini. Thank you for reaching out. Air Salt does not affect aircraft but please be careful to avoid areas with specular reflection such as water. We recommend that you not fly the aircraft close to the water, as flying on the water's surface will affect the normal function of visual positioning, and the aircraft may fall into the water due to the impact on positioning accuracy.

Really??   ;-)  [ mini 4 pro manual ]
Flying with good GPS lock ; horizontal positioning is done by GPS, height control done by barometric sensor.
Flying 0.7 meter above water....no problem as long as GPS lock is oke. Vision is not active....
(thats why you can fly low over water pitch dark....if GPS lock is there....)

btw Drone has no idea if it is flying over water   or  flat grass land   or  shiny tarmac or....ect etc.

Vision positioning only when GPS signals are weak... < 3 GPS signal health.

Only height control issues when flying low over streaming water; baro height control get confused when the IR height measurent fluctuates in yes / no measuring.

cheers
JJB

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2023-9-30
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Sean-bumble-bee
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darn it didnt quote
2023-9-30
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Sean-bumble-bee
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JJB* Posted at 9-30 11:59
Really??   ;-)  [ mini 4 pro manual ]
Flying with good GPS lock ; horizontal positioning is done by GPS, height control done by barometric sensor.
Flying 0.7 meter above water....no problem as long as GPS lock is oke. Vision is not active....

"Vision positioning only when GPS signals are weak... < 3 GPS signal health."

Unless the Mini 4 Pro or mini 3 pro differ from my drones I would question whether or not that is correct.
I recollect that with the M2P/Z, Mavic Mini and Mini 2 their position holding is always better when VPS is available and that is with good GPS.
I.e. fly one low flight in day light and in the same location one flight at night where the VPS can not work and compare the position holding when low.
2023-9-30
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Labroides
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Space Dream Posted at 9-30 07:05
There seem to be different opinions on this point, but I can also imagine that water reflections and turbulent wave movements can lead to confusion. And I think to be on the safe side DJI recommends to do it with great caution or rather not at all. Even if it often goes well, maybe not once, no idea but I would be very skeptical with a 100% statement.

There seem to be different opinions on this point
There are myths and there are facts.

but I can also imagine that water reflections and turbulent wave movements can lead to confusion

Yes ... confusion among the members here who don't read flight data or properly understand how drones work.
Horizontal position holding can be problematic when low over water, but not vertical height holding.

And I think to be on the safe side DJI recommends to do it with great caution or rather not at all. Even if it often goes well, maybe not once, no idea but I would be very skeptical with a 100% statement.
The 100%  statement from the (non-flying) moderator is the one to be skeptical of.
It has contributed to the myth.
Unfortunately DJI sources cannot always be relied on for accurate information.

2023-9-30
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Bashy
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You guys contradict each other with regards to horizontal positioning/vertical hold, which is it, please? because i am fairly sure its vertical holding else why would some drones in the past swim when they have been over water and i am fairly sure at least one of them was just hovering taking a shots of a waterfall.

Labroides "Horizontal position holding can be problematic when low over water, but not vertical height holding."

JJB* Only height control issues when flying low over streaming water; baro height control get confused when the IR height measurent fluctuates in yes / no measuring.



2023-9-30
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Labroides
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Bashy Posted at 9-30 19:14
You guys contradict each other with regards to horizontal positioning/vertical hold, which is it, please? because i am fairly sure its vertical holding else why would some drones in the past swim when they have been over water and i am fairly sure at least one of them was just hovering taking a shots of a waterfall.

Labroides "Horizontal position holding can be problematic when low over water, but not vertical height holding."

It's the horizontal position holding.
Trust the people that read the data from incidents or follow a popular myth.
Your choice.
2023-9-30
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JJB*
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Bashy Posted at 9-30 19:14
You guys contradict each other with regards to horizontal positioning/vertical hold, which is it, please? because i am fairly sure its vertical holding else why would some drones in the past swim when they have been over water and i am fairly sure at least one of them was just hovering taking a shots of a waterfall.

Labroides "Horizontal position holding can be problematic when low over water, but not vertical height holding."

Hi,

It is common on  public fora the member differs from opinion.

Myth or facts.


If i read the manual and check the Vision Used value in the log than it is clear.

GPS is used for horizontal positiong when GPS signal is good.
With a weak GPS signal the Vision is used for this horizontal positioning.
If vision is used is seen on the log, True/False value for "Vision used"
Easy to check, if GPS < 3 that True for Vision.
But what role does the Downward Vision have in positioning when GPS signal is strong?
Does it help/assist horizontal positioning when GPS is strong and False is set for Vision used in the log?

I do no see any difference in hover precison on my crafts, flying on GPS or flying only using the vision. (indoors or in dense wood waiting for the sats to come through...)

Vertical positioning (height control) is done by the info from the barometric sensor, but IR height sensor info is used as well in some situations. For example flying too low and it will fly up or lowering the descent speed when lowering craft from high height into IR range towards the ground. (from 5 m/s to 3, to 2 and to zero at 0.5 meter)
If this IR sensor has more influence on height control in other situation is the question.

Seen few logs (plus my own experience), flying low over water, where drone could not keep height control, always a case where the IR height sensor did measure yes/no height.
Conclusion : IR height height info affects the height control.

Seen few logs where keeping positioning over (streaming) water was not possible, but always with GPS < 3 and Vision is use.
Over streamimg water drone drifted from position (no RC input ofcourse).

Never saw this drifting with a Good GPS lock, so if someone love to share such a log, love to see this data!


cheers
JJB
2023-10-1
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Bashy
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JJB* Posted at 10-1 01:12
Hi,

It is common on  public fora the member differs from opinion.

Thanks for the in-depth reply, so if the water is in range of the downward VPS, the VPS will have no say in the matter as long as there is a >3 GPS? i.e. i could quite happily fly at 6ft off the water and there will be no issues at all, obviously in Normal mode, wouldnt risk it in sports as i know that the drone loses height.
2023-10-1
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Bashy Posted at 10-1 03:04
Thanks for the in-depth reply, so if the water is in range of the downward VPS, the VPS will have no say in the matter as long as there is a >3 GPS? i.e. i could quite happily fly at 6ft off the water and there will be no issues at all, obviously in Normal mode, wouldnt risk it in sports as i know that the drone loses height.

yes....

I fly alot low over water, with good GPS no problem.
Flying low is always within VPS and IR height range.

Always keep a good eye on your craft, just in case.If the IR sensor looses height reference ( unrealistic of zero value in the log) than keeping steady height gets difficult...so prepare always for UP stick.
Flying low over streaming water....or waves etc, keep 2 eyes on your drone  ;-)

See last part of video 3, at the end height started to drop...quickly UP.
cheers
JJB







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Bashy
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JJB* Posted at 10-1 07:14
yes....

I fly alot low over water, with good GPS no problem.

So with what you've just said, the drone could lose height when in sensor range even with good gps
2023-10-1
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Bashy Posted at 10-1 08:24
So with what you've just said, the drone could lose height when in sensor range even with good gps

yes, imo due to incorrect height measurement by the IR height sensor.
So do not fly to fast when flying low over water, at higher speed the chance of loosing IR height is most likely.

Mini4pro IR sensor is so much better that the Mini3pro, where the "3" looses height at 5 7 or 8 meter the "4" is measuring up to 20 meters.
If this also means that the low height measusing above water is better too, have to test this out.

(my own mini4pro just 2 days in the house..)



cheers
JJB
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Bashy
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JJB* Posted at 10-1 08:40
yes, imo due to incorrect height measurement by the IR height sensor.
So do not fly to fast when flying low over water, at higher speed the chance of loosing IR height is most likely.

Thanks, its how i thought it works
2023-10-1
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Potato mini
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Bashy Posted at 10-1 19:39
Thanks, its how i thought it works

thanks for the info
2023-10-2
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Space Dream
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JJB* Posted at 10-1 08:40
yes, imo due to incorrect height measurement by the IR height sensor.
So do not fly to fast when flying low over water, at higher speed the chance of loosing IR height is most likely.

where the "Mini 3 Pro" looses height at 5 or 7 or 8 meter the "Mini 4 Pro" is measuring up to 20 meters

Does this mean that the Mini 3 Pro is at risk of losing altitude in the range 5-8 meters above the water because the infrared sensor is no longer reliable here? And the Mini 4 Pro is safer and more reliable in this range and up to 20 meters above the water? And what about the range above 8m (Mini 3 Pro) and above 20m (Mini 4 Pro) ?


2023-10-2
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Sean-bumble-bee
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Low over water it is unwise to trust the drone to maintain height.
Even if the height sensing is fool proof you do not have the height to play with in the first place.
Meaning, watch it like a hawk and give it full throttle if you even think it is descending.
2023-10-2
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Bashy
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Sean-bumble-bee Posted at 10-2 13:33
Low over water it is unwise to trust the drone to maintain height.
Even if the height sensing is fool proof you do not have the height to play with in the first place.
Meaning, watch it like a hawk and give it full throttle if you even think it is descending.

Folks, I know what Sean means but to spell it out, he is referring to, full-throttle ascend, just full-throttle could be worse and descend faster.
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Bashy Posted at 10-2 17:34
Folks, I know what Sean means but to spell it out, he is referring to, full-throttle ascend, just full-throttle could be worse and descend faster.


Oh, it hadn't occurred to me that people might take full throttle to mean 'car-like full throttle' as in full forwards speed or full elevator.
In connection with a drone, my mind thinks of "throttle" controlling the vertical speed," elevator" controlling forwards/backwards speed and "aileron" controlling sideways speed.
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Labroides
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Bashy Posted at 10-2 17:34
Folks, I know what Sean means but to spell it out, he is referring to, full-throttle ascend, just full-throttle could be worse and descend faster.

just full-throttle could be worse and descend faster.
Only if you don't know what "throttle" means with respect to your drone.
My manual has the word throttle 17 times and it makes it clear which stick they are referring to.
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Bashy
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Labroides Posted at 10-2 17:51
just full-throttle could be worse and descend faster.
Only if you don't know what "throttle" means with respect to your drone.
My manual has the word throttle 17 times and it makes it clear which stick they are referring to.

And how many here actually read the manual, especially newbies?
2023-10-2
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Sean-bumble-bee Posted at 10-2 13:33
Low over water it is unwise to trust the drone to maintain height.
Even if the height sensing is fool proof you do not have the height to play with in the first place.
Meaning, watch it like a hawk and give it full throttle if you even think it is descending.

Agree, never trust height control when flying low over water!
Always keep eye on your drone (imo better than watching the screen) and be ready to pull UP.

Having said that:  my own experience flying low over water ; if you fly not too fast and the water isn`t moving drone keeps height perfecly. Only when the IR sensor misses height measurements, drone height may drop height.

So
speed is important bc at high speed the IR height looses reference
flat non streaming water gives no height control problems

In the vid, after 30 seconds no more RC down inputs, keeping same height steady as a rock
Same for flying low in the second part.

See the chart (shows from 30 secs in flight to the second next part) , baro height steady line,  even at low speed IR sensor has diffuculties to measure same height.Only when the measurement fails then height dropping issues.



cheers
JJB



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Sean-bumble-bee
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I have had a Mavic Mini  or Mini 2 start descending the end of a speed run that was made at low-height 3m-5m. and ended over shallow water - sea, that was eyes on the drone and I gave the drone full throttle (climb) up to maybe 10m.  Eyes on the drone, I have also had a mavic mini down to around 2ft over deepish water to look through a pipe, it took 3 or 4 attempts to get that low because I was nervous and made it climb if I thought it was descending in a way that I wasn't commanding. When I finally got it down there I had it creep forwards but had my fingers on the throttle ready to send it up if 'needed'.
Watching the screen I have had a P3 really low, I wanted to look at the base of a buoy, It was a rare flat calm day, it might at one point started to descend  and maybe even dipped its feet in the sea but I'd seen what I wanted at that point and had it climb to a safe height.
2023-10-3
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Sean-bumble-bee Posted at 10-3 01:28
I have had a Mavic Mini  or Mini 2 start descending the end of a speed run that was made at low-height 3m-5m. and ended over shallow water - sea, that was eyes on the drone and I gave the drone full throttle (climb) up to maybe 10m.  Eyes on the drone, I have also had a mavic mini down to around 2ft over deepish water to look through a pipe, it took 3 or 4 attempts to get that low because I was nervous and made it climb if I thought it was descending in a way that I wasn't commanding. When I finally got it down there I had it creep forwards but had my fingers on the throttle ready to send it up if 'needed'.
Watching the screen I have had a P3 really low, I wanted to look at the base of a buoy, It was a rare flat calm day, it might at one point started to descend  and maybe even dipped its feet in the sea but I'd seen what I wanted at that point and had it climb to a safe height.

When DJI Gamora uses the words “specular reflection such as water”, those are trigger words for GPS multipath.  GPS multipath can adversely affect the GPS quality level of the drone’s GPS.  Calm water is best water for Multipath.


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DroneApe Posted at 10-3 09:48
When DJI Gamora uses the words “specular reflection such as water”, those are trigger words for GPS multipath.  GPS multipath can adversely affect the GPS quality level of the drone’s GPS.  Calm water is best water for Multipath.

Water absorbs IR.

Really? I thought it just reflected the IR.
2023-10-3
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