The answer to my rhetorical question is yes (for the Mini Series of drones).  I think motion blur is over-rated and too many people are being duped when for most of the video footage they take it is irrelevant.

For some time now I have been frustrated with what I am calling ‘motion blur zealots’ who think that the 180-degree shutter rule needs to be applied to ALL video shots taken with a drone - and therefore ND filters need to be fitted to your drone all of the time (so that you can ensure your shutter speed is twice your frame rate). Wrong!! The clue is in the phrase “motion blur”.  If there is no motion you do not need to worry about blur.  Simple.  Check out this video I found on YouTube (see link below)

Almost all the drone video footage I have taken over the last 5 years has been of architecture, skylines, landscapes, coastlines, etc.  Basically, stuff that does not move and because I am flying slowly at altitude to capture those wide-angle cinematic shots there is little to no discernible motion to worry about. Ergo, unless the light conditions are just too harsh for the fixed aperture camera, I do not use ND filters on my drones.  If I owned an FPV drone flying crazy high-speed stunts close to the ground – then yes, I would use an ND filter to capture motion blur.

The DJI Mini Series drones are not designed to be flown at high-speed close to the ground or objects. That is why DJI brought out their dedicated FPV drone that does just that. 99% of the DJI Mini Series drone video footage posted on YouTube is of landscapes and skylines where there is little or no discernible movement - so motion blur is a complete RED HERRING (although I concede some light conditions may require the use of filters to ensure good exposure). Moreover, 99% of the drone video footage posted on YT is from hobbyists not A list Hollywood directors, and the video is compressed by YouTube - so who is going to care (or even notice) if your video has motion blur or not?

So…. before you go and spend a lot of money on ND filters - just ask yourself if you really need them? Maybe test out a few rather than buy a massive expensive set of filters.  You do not need to be constantly worried about motion blur because It is probably not going to affect you most of the time if you are flying a drone from the Mini Series

Thanks for sharing.  In the right usage scenario ND filters do make an amazing camera even better.

DowntownRDB Posted at 12-31 06:55
Thanks for sharing.  In the right usage scenario ND filters do make an amazing camera even better.

I don’t disagree with you. But for this type of drone ND filters don’t need to be the default accessory. I worry that newbie drone pilots are being told they MUST buy ND filters - not to ensure good exposure but because of motion blur. That’s just bad advice, especially when you’ve already spent a lot of money on the drone. I just want people to make a MORE INFORMED CHOICE and not get swept up in the unnecessary hype that is motion blur

Steph Jant Posted at 12-31 08:48
I don’t disagree with you. But for this type of drone ND filters don’t need to be the default accessory. I worry that newbie drone pilots are being told they MUST buy ND filters - not to ensure good exposure but because of motion blur. That’s just bad advice, especially when you’ve already spent a lot of money on the drone. I just want people to make a MORE INFORMED CHOICE and not get swept up in the unnecessary hype that is motion blur

I joined YouTube back when I purchased the Mini 2.  I was caught up in the hype for a good while.  I have finally figured out that the YT channels are 95% hype and 5% useful information.   

For the basic consumer who posts to YouTube or shares videos with friends and family, applying basic cinematic concepts with a little bit of post, will have a much greater impact than filters, accessories, or even the latest and greatest technology.

I now have the Mini Pro 4 and the Pocket 3, yet with all of the upgrades, I can still produce the same Wow factor with the Mini 2 and the Pocket 2.

Steph Jant Posted at 12-31 08:48
I don’t disagree with you. But for this type of drone ND filters don’t need to be the default accessory. I worry that newbie drone pilots are being told they MUST buy ND filters - not to ensure good exposure but because of motion blur. That’s just bad advice, especially when you’ve already spent a lot of money on the drone. I just want people to make a MORE INFORMED CHOICE and not get swept up in the unnecessary hype that is motion blur

I have to agree that there is way too much hype by the YT influencers about you have to use ND filters.

I'm not quite sure if the author of the video understood correctly why people seek the "cine look" and how they achieve it. Respectively, the 180° shutter speed rule is correctly mentioned here, but the fact that it also applies mainly to the 24fps setting - speaking of the blur effect, I didn't see that in the video :]

So if the video author locks the ISO value and sets 4k30FPS, then either the shutter speed will vary according to the auto exposure, or if everything is set fixed, the actual exposure will vary.
Personally, I prefer to sacrifice a slightly higher ISO and increased noise rather than catching up on exposure in post-production - so leaving ISO on auto, within certain limits of course, is no good to mount ND256 when proper exposure requires ND16-32

For the waterfall shot, he somehow doesn't mention that the effect is mainly due to the slowmotion shot . Which is imho the only case where I would shoot at a higher FPS in a cimena look video - as long as I know I'm going to slow the shot down in post-production (while following the shutter speed rule, of course).

So I kinda don't understand what the author wanted to say in the video

Jan Spacil Posted at 1-1 13:34
I'm not quite sure if the author of the video understood correctly why people seek the "cine look" and how they achieve it. Respectively, the 180° shutter speed rule is correctly mentioned here, but the fact that it also applies mainly to the 24fps setting - speaking of the blur effect, I didn't see that in the video :]

So if the video author locks the ISO value and sets 4k30FPS, then either the shutter speed will vary according to the auto exposure, or if everything is set fixed, the actual exposure will vary.

To me his point is 100% clear. Watch his video @ 1:25.  If there is little or no movement in your video footage you don’t need to worry about motion blur and ND filters (unless exposure conditions dictate otherwise).  But some people (including commentators on this Forum) peddle the notion that you always need ND filters fitted to your drone because of motion blur. That’s just rubbish!!!

Hi, I understand that point of view. IMHO over 80% of mini series users don't even know that any filters exist, so they don't bother. Well, of the rest, about half buy ND filters "just because they should" and the other half know exactly why they buy them :]

Unfortunately the "cinema look" is not just a matter of shutter speed, which ND filters help with, but also other settings. If, for example, the video is unnaturally oversharpened (as it is in the basic settings), the result will still suck even with filters. There are more 'rules' than that, but anyone who is serious about video will learn all of them in time (LOG, gamut and color space, bitrate depending on fps, color grading etc.).

By the way, I got a final answer from my favourite photo accessory supplier K&F Concept regarding the extension of the filter range for M4P, unfortunately they won't sell VND filters or ND>64 filters, although they do offer them for M3P. Too bad, their price/quality ratio is excellent ..

Jan Spacil Posted at 1-3 23:29
Hi, I understand that point of view. IMHO over 80% of mini series users don't even know that any filters exist, so they don't bother. Well, of the rest, about half buy ND filters "just because they should" and the other half know exactly why they buy them :]

Unfortunately the "cinema look" is not just a matter of shutter speed, which ND filters help with, but also other settings. If, for example, the video is unnaturally oversharpened (as it is in the basic settings), the result will still suck even with filters. There are more 'rules' than that, but anyone who is serious about video will learn all of them in time (LOG, gamut and color space, bitrate depending on fps, color grading etc.).

Like you, K&F Concept is my 'go to' supplier for ND filters.  I use them a lot with my LUMIX S5ii full frame camera and the various prime lenses that I own.  I also have K&F Concept ND filters for my DJI Action 4 and Mini 4 Pro.  It doesn't bother me that K&F don't sell >ND 64 filters for the Mini 4 Pro.  I don't think you actually need them.  If the reason for getting a ND128 or higher ND filter is to really slow down the shutter speed to get some cool effects, taking such photos with a drone is arguably a waste of time.  The Mini 4 Pro is a lightweight drone and in anything other that zero wind there will be discernable movement which will be picked up in slow shutter speed photos

I've had both Freewell, the mega pack, and a K+F variable ND for my mini 3 pro, a six pack set of K+F ND's for my Mini 2, and ordered a set of Polar pro for the mini 4 pro I have now. Polar pro has produced a set with 8, 32, and 128, and suggest setting the ISO to 200 if you want to achieve the effect of 4, 16, and 64 with the set. Sounds good on marketing paper, I'm going to give it a try. The freewell mega pack I had was nice, but never used many of them. I did use the LPR at night a lot and the UV was nice just in terms of camera lense protection. Otherwise used anything from the 8 to 64 in different daylight conditions, and the polarized filters were nice for certain shots or flying over water, but when all was said and done, the ND8 stayed on there a lot, lol.

I completely agree with you ! I think that, for hobbyist videos, ND filters do not add any value. They're useful only for increasing commissions for the YT influencers. I have the filters for the Air 2s, because they're included in the Fly More Combo but, after some testing, I decided not to use them. If motion blur is needed, I can add it in post-processing.

I made a poll regarding filters, and I just added a link to this interesting thread...

https://forum.dji.com/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=304551

Good points here, I have to admit. I have used filters myself and am happy with them, but it could be that in some of my use cases, I could do without them with more know-how.

That's why I only buy CPL filter

Sometimes its not just about the speed whizzing above the ground but also the movements of birds or even objects during pans and trucking movements. Again, these are all film/video making aesthetics. As for photography, you will notice differences when you capture stuff like helicopter blades or high speed motion where a 1/4000 shutter speed isn't what you want as your composition. Most consumer drones boast super wide apertures and unfortunately also fixed apertures so we need a way to control the light hitting the sensor apart from shutter speeds.

So yes, ND filters, NDPL, circular polarising/polarising, graduated ND, etc all are necessary arsenals for the photographer and cinematographer.
As far as drones are concerned, IMHO, the only filters i will/am currently using are ND/PL filters from 8-64 which nicely cuts down light for the 180 rule. A set costs maybe $20-30 usd from aliexpress. IMHO polarisers are absolutely ideal in order to get the right colour from subjects as well as remove glare. Weirdly enough none of the other manufacturer sells them except JSR (Junestar).

Sometimes ago I got myself a set of these Freewell filters... Good quality and good range...

https://www.freewellgear.com/en/ ... -all-day-8pack.html

And I also have the equivalent for the MINI 3 Pro

https://www.freewellgear.com/en/ ... ight-day-6pack.html

So far so good....

Yeah, this has been my motto for some years now.
It's a common thing in many hobbies. People rather buy something that 'improves their work' than spend enough time improving their skillset.
I see it in model railroading, photography, videography and music making as well.
What piece of gear did you use?
My response is usually : I spent 10 years of my life learning how to do this. You don't need more gear. You need to learn how to use it.
It's not an easy answer, but it's usually true.

And back on track, I think that ND filters are a great tool for a videographer that knows what he/she is doing.
Especially for when the subject is relatively close by (and moving indeed).
But for drone footage, this is often not the case and there are a lot of things that you can (should?) do 'first' that will have a much bigger impact on your drone footage.
So yeah, I 100% agree. And TBH, I don't have ND filters for my current drone.
I bought them for my previous 2 drones, but 99% of the time decided not to use them.
Same with my P2, even though I know I 'should' use them. Its just very inconvenient to have to fiddle around with these tiny pieces of glass that are easily dropped (with my big fingers at least).
Only for very critical projects I'm still putting them on.
Or long shutterspeed timelapses (ND1000).

D35Archangel Posted at 1-12 17:16
Sometimes its not just about the speed whizzing above the ground but also the movements of birds or even objects during pans and trucking movements. Again, these are all film/video making aesthetics. As for photography, you will notice differences when you capture stuff like helicopter blades or high speed motion where a 1/4000 shutter speed isn't what you want as your composition. Most consumer drones boast super wide apertures and unfortunately also fixed apertures so we need a way to control the light hitting the sensor apart from shutter speeds.

So yes, ND filters, NDPL, circular polarising/polarising, graduated ND, etc all are necessary arsenals for the photographer and cinematographer.

Polar Pro also makes ND/PL filters for many drones and action cameras. Last summer I had to replace the CPL filter for my DSLR and went with a Polar Pro. I am very happy with their quality.

Cheesehead Media Posted at 2-6 15:38
Polar Pro also makes ND/PL filters for many drones and action cameras. Last summer I had to replace the CPL filter for my DSLR and went with a Polar Pro. I am very happy with their quality.

yeah saw those. They dont do for the Avata

Jan Spacil Posted at 1-3 23:29
Hi, I understand that point of view. IMHO over 80% of mini series users don't even know that any filters exist, so they don't bother. Well, of the rest, about half buy ND filters "just because they should" and the other half know exactly why they buy them :]

Unfortunately the "cinema look" is not just a matter of shutter speed, which ND filters help with, but also other settings. If, for example, the video is unnaturally oversharpened (as it is in the basic settings), the result will still suck even with filters. There are more 'rules' than that, but anyone who is serious about video will learn all of them in time (LOG, gamut and color space, bitrate depending on fps, color grading etc.).

Well, the day my K&F NDPL filters arrived they started to sell VND filters for Mini 4 Pro... https://www.amazon.de/gp/aw/d/B0CQX334QM/ref=ox_sc_act_image_1?smid=A1WO1CIAJVX0MY&psc=1&th=1

This is a very strange approach, at the beginning of the year I had confirmation that VND filters they do not plan to sell ..



But now I see them directly on the K&F website: https://www.kentfaith.com/SKU.2084_kf-concept-vnd-filter-kits-for-dji-mini-4-pro

I'll tell you my experience.
1. About the “quality” of filters
Two parameters can affect the quality - reducing the resolution and introducing a color cast.
The reduction in resolution depends mainly on the glass used, all glasses are the same, and so is the resolution.
Now about the color tint, it may be present, especially on high-density filters, depending on the coating material and the nuances of the protective and antireflective coating technology (if any))
So, I have both freevel and another cheap Chinese one, I don’t notice any difference in the video in terms of spurious coloring. It may be there, but I don’t notice) I have a color checker, in principle I can take two photos with different filters and use the color checker to determine the shade of the filter, but there was no such need, everything is fine as is.
2. About using filters
This is a special conversation)
It has long been noted in other topics that all beginners consider it their duty to first buy ND filters, thinking that this will improve their home video)
What practice shows is that filters are needed in SOME cases and only for those who understand how and why to use them.
It’s stupid to buy a whole set of filters because it’s not a camera, the drone has flown away and you won’t be able to correct the exposure by replacing the filter
to obtain shutter speed in accordance with the rule - 1\x2 frame rate. This applies in particular to the mini 4 because it has a camera without aperture adjustment. For example, on Mavic 2 you can adjust the exposure in flight by closing/opening the aperture, and on Mini 4 only by changing the filter)
Or another way is to immediately install a filter with a density higher than necessary (for example, ND64), set shutter speed priority in manual mode and set the ISO to auto, and then the camera itself will maintain the correct exposure due to the ISO, but you need to be prepared that the ISO will jump up to 800 even on a sunny day and thereby add noise.
There is another way - just shoot everything with a filter in the "auto" mode, and you need to forget about the rule of 1\x2 frame rate, it will not be respected, but the shutter speed will be long enough and there will be some blur. Actually, it’s for the sake of lubrication that they install filters)
One more thing, blurring the video leads to the fact that the detail or resolution of the frames is lost and the video will no longer resemble the 4k in which it seemed to be filmed)
3. About the differences between expensive and cheap filters
Two parameters - resolution and color tone
The resolution doesn’t differ at all, even if it’s tiny and someone finds it in the photo, then in the video, due to that same cinematic “blur” that everyone wants to get, everything will be equally blurred)
The tint that filters add can be easily adjusted in the editor by white balance (almost always). But we want to get a movie picture, right? Then the video must also be subjected to additional color grading, i.e. toning which will completely destroy the tiny difference if there is one in the filter tone.
4. About shooting without a filter
ND filters are used, as already mentioned, to eliminate strobe (in video) and to obtain cinematic blur (for photos and videos).
So, the strobe can be removed without filters, filming at a frame rate of 50-60 fps, or if you shot 25-30, then in the editor you can display the final video with a frequency higher than what was filmed, the same 50-60 fps (but in the editor you need set the option for completing the missing frame, for example Optical flow in Davinci)
In the editor, you can also add a blur that simulates a long exposure. It may be a little different from real smear, but in many cases it imitates it well. This is not suitable for long exposures in photography; here you cannot do without a filter.
5. When a filter will help
In principle, to shoot video in all possible cases, you can put the filter on permanently and leave it on for daytime shooting. For the mini 4, taking into account its high-aperture camera, you need a filter of at least ND32-64 and set the remaining parameters to auto.
A filter will be needed if you shoot objects in the foreground, especially when flying sideways along the object - there will be a strobe without a filter.
A filter is needed when panning (shooting while rotating around an axis), you need to shoot very slowly and with a long shutter speed, this is where the filter will help.
A filter is needed when flying, for example, low above the ground, so that it is blurred in the foreground, otherwise there will be an unpleasant strobe even at 60 fps.
A filter is needed for hyperlapses.

I hope I made it clear.

I use ND filters on all my drones, even those with aperture control. In my photography NDs are necessary to achieve a desired shutter speed and the proper aperture for depth of field to produce a pleasant motion blur. When photographing waterfalls for example it may be necessary to use a 5 to 8 stop ND to achieve an exposure of say 1/20 at f/8 with ISO 100 for a smooth flow of the water. Keeping f/8 and the ISO at 100 by varying the filter density the shutter speed can provide motion blur for the flow of the water from a very silky smooth to slight movement. With a fixed aperture as with the mini series and keeping with the 180 rule 30fps setting the shutter at 1/60 would provide the best cinematic experience for the viewer as we know. With a fixed shutter at 1.7, and the ISO at 100 in medium to bright daylight the video will be way overexposed, beyond use IMO. And increasing the ISO only makes the sensor more sensitive to light and further overexposing. If we decrease the shutter speed much below the 180 rule, it will cause the exposure of each frame to spill over the following frame or two and will create unwanted flickering. Increasing the shutter much beyond double the frame rate movement will begin to appear unnatural. That being said, when filming, increasing the shutter speed some may be necessary to minimize blur with fast moving subjects. All this being said, shooting stills with the drone isn’t quite as problematic because the faster shutter speeds will ensure a sharper image, but you may still need an ND if you run out of shutter speed. If you desire blur, or movement in your still images and the aperture is fixed, reducing the shutter speed is only achievable with the use of NDs when the light is bright.

I've only had my Mini Pro 4 for a day so perhaps a little early to be commenting.

Like a lot of people, I had been swayed by all the YouTube hype regarding the "must have" ND filters, and almost purchased a pack. And then I read this post which perhaps make me think they are probably not overly necessary for my projected projects.

I have used cameras for the last 55 years, and there has been a lot of hype around these also needing ND filters. I have had sales people and other photo enthusiasts say that ND filters should be welded onto every lens. However, I come from a slightly different school that says one should weld a Polarising Filter to all  your lenses. Yes, I like my CPL's.

So, would perhaps a better purchase for a drone newbie such as I be a 3 pack ND filter set that incorporates a CPL, so that when I am not chasing that rare "motion blur" I can happily do away with water reflections or get that darker blue sky.

I like ND16 while filming sea creatures in the water, because ND16 basically removes glare and reflection, making it easier to see through the water.

USER001 Posted at 3-28 08:13
I like ND16 while filming sea creatures in the water, because ND16 basically removes glare and reflection, making it easier to see through the water.

You are confused, a regular ND filter does not remove any glare. There are ND filters labeled PL; they are polarized and remove glare. But this is not as effective and depends on the position of the drone camera and the sun. You shouldn't count on this seriously. The best results are obtained by polarizing filters with an adjustable plane of polarization, but for them it is also necessary to take into account the shooting angle and the position of the sun. Conventional PL filters simply increase contrast, and this is actually bad, because... halftones are lost. You can increase the contrast in the editor at any time; it’s better to shoot without PL filters.

USER001 Posted at 3-28 08:13
I like ND16 while filming sea creatures in the water, because ND16 basically removes glare and reflection, making it easier to see through the water.

Your ND16 filter doesn't remove glare or reflections.
It uniformly cuts 95% of all the light passing through to the sensor.

Fox666 Posted at 2-16 06:54
I've only had my Mini Pro 4 for a day so perhaps a little early to be commenting.

Like a lot of people, I had been swayed by all the YouTube hype regarding the "must have" ND filters, and almost purchased a pack. And then I read this post which perhaps make me think they are probably not overly necessary for my projected projects.

I have used cameras for the last 55 years, and there has been a lot of hype around these also needing ND filters. I have had sales people and other photo enthusiasts say that ND filters should be welded onto every lens.
No-one has ever suggested that you should always use ND filters on your handheld cameras.
You are confusing ND filters with UV filters.
There's a huge difference.

Very informative information, love the video. I was looking at these filters too along with a few other accessories.

Labroides Posted at 3-28 15:07
Your ND16 filter doesn't remove glare or reflections.
It uniformly cuts 95% of all the light passing through to the sensor.

Actually, you are right; I just checked. The reason I bought ND16 is because this YouTuber (RobHK) said that "it removes all glare and reflections", which I thought would be perfect for my needs. He should really check his facts before blurting out nonsense and publicly posting it.

Serg SSA Posted at 3-28 10:01
You are confused, a regular ND filter does not remove any glare. There are ND filters labeled PL; they are polarized and remove glare. But this is not as effective and depends on the position of the drone camera and the sun. You shouldn't count on this seriously. The best results are obtained by polarizing filters with an adjustable plane of polarization, but for them it is also necessary to take into account the shooting angle and the position of the sun. Conventional PL filters simply increase contrast, and this is actually bad, because... halftones are lost. You can increase the contrast in the editor at any time; it’s better to shoot without PL filters.

Actually, you are right; I just checked. The reason I bought ND16 is because this YouTuber (RobHK) said that "it removes all glare and reflections", which I thought would be perfect for my needs. He should really check his facts before blurting out nonsense and publicly posting it.