this video is pretty cool! Never thought about trying to fly above fog....

I would absolutely recommend no one in the USA tries flying like that unless you are on an instrument flight plan. And if you did, don't post video of it.

We have enough material for the FAA to come down hard on this great hobby...

Westside Osprey Posted at 2015-11-3 22:41
I would absolutely recommend no one in the USA tries flying like that unless you are on an instrumen ...

Are you aware that I was flying no higher than 200 meters above ground? And this is fog, not clouds.

I am an instrument GA  pilot. Fog is a cloud on the ground, it is technically called stratus.

I have no idea of Polish regulations, but in the USA you have to be 500' away from clouds at all times in class G airspace. You also have to be in direct visual range of the MR, you clearly were not. Minimum visibility 3 miles in class G airspace.

I am not saying you are doing anything wrong in Poland, but in the USA the FAA would come after you if they saw that video. I just don't want any new pilot here to see the video an think it was cool and try it here in the USA.

Westside Osprey Posted at 2015-11-3 13:41
I would absolutely recommend no one in the USA tries flying like that unless you are on an instrumen ...

I doubt I would try this.  How would you file a IFP for a DJI?

acenothing Posted at 2015-11-3 17:37
I doubt I would try this.  How would you file a IFP for a DJI?

Once you have an N number and an IFR approved aircraft (as far as I know no-one does yet)...

I bet in the near future we will be able to. But you will need certified a altimeter, mode C transponder and a currently FAA inspection of avionics and aircraft for IFR operation. Expensive. My C177 was about $15,000 a year in avionics and airframe/powerplant annuals including repairs.

Westside Osprey Posted at 2015-11-3 16:48
Once you have an N number and an IFR approved aircraft (as far as I know no-one does yet)...

I be ...

I doubt that they would push stuff like that, the government is greedy and wants money.
They want control to fine you like speeding tickets.
They won't put a whole hobby out of business.
It might be a different story for commercial use the government wants a bigger cut .
They may have bigger fines and licensing

ajinop Posted at 2015-11-3 18:53
I doubt that they would push stuff like that, the government is greedy and wants money.
They want  ...

I was just making the point that it is stupid to fly in clouds and the FAA will come after you if you do and get caught.

The comments on IFR certified drone in the future, are a bit in jest. But I do think that there will definitely be IFR capable and FAA approved drones in the future. And they will not be cheap.

I actually believe a lot of aircraft will be autonomous in the future w/o pilots on board. Our whole airspace system is going to change drastically. And I am sure hobby MRs that are VFR only and comply with FAA regs will be part of the future.

Been in fog once.  It was dripping when I landed.  Everything was wet.  Never again.

The FAA Pilot perspective on drone flights vs that of non pilots can be vastly different,

One of the biggest problems facing the drone industry is exactly that disparity.

An FAA licensed pilot sees "Airspace"....a drone operator sees the sky.   

Westside Osprey Posted at 2015-11-3 23:31
I am an instrument GA  pilot. Fog is a cloud on the ground, it is technically called stratus.

I hav ...

We are member of European Union so our civil aviation authority is European Aviation Safety Agency. According to our law drone needs to be in direct line of sight all the time , it wasn't in my case, I agree, I am aware of this and that's why at least I decided to do this in completely empty airspace far away of any traffic.

Also sorry for my last post but I mistook your words quite a bit.

wow, this video is awesome!

Removed for content.  TE

Actually video that is published is how the first FAA case against an MR operator was discovered. I am talking about the one that ended up going to court and the pilot was fined $30,000.00, he was shooting for a university in VA I seem to remember.

It is unlikely that they will pursue every video on all the boards and video streaming services, but they do like to make examples...

Rebel Posted at 2015-11-4 20:21
How would they prove ...for example. The guy who posted this fog video, how would they EVER prove  ...

First of all the original poster was in Europe so the FAA would not bother him.

However if you post a video on Vimeo, YouTube or FB and write about it on a board, you are traceable.

The likelihood is not great, but I think it is a bad idea to do this especially as the NTSB and FAA is in the middle of additional rule making. Lets not post stupid videos even if they look cool, it will draw attention this community does not need.

The guy who shot the university footage got caught because someone saw the video.

Aloha Rebel,

"How would they prove ...for example. The guy who posted this fog video, how would they EVER prove it was he that actually flew the P3 to make the video???"

     That is the part you do not like.  Remember, all those cases you see in news reports where the FBI goes to a house with a warrant and leaves with computers and hard drives.  Well, in the FAA's case, they either get their own warrant, if they have the manpower, or use the FBI depending on the severity of the infraction, to do the same in a drone case.  In a penetration of an airport airspace, I think they would use the FBI to collect the drones and computers of the suspect or suspects.  Not a pretty picture for us.  

    To get the warrant, all they have to do is show a judge the video and link it lightly to the suspect (and their location) - especially if there is repeat behavior.  Instant warrant.  Actually pretty easy. Once they have your P3, etc. and computers, they can build a solid case against you.  If you try to erase hard drives and videos off of SD cards while they are breaking down your door, you instantly get arrested for obstruction of justice and then you have to post bail to get out of custody.  Then they pull what you thought you erased from the hard drive and SD card to use it against you (they have actually retrieved SD cards from digestive tracts).  If you only own the P3 used in the penetration and you can prove that someone else was the pilot, you are now a witness for the prosecution (and probably not someone's friend anymore) and will just be charged with accessory to the penetration (still not a pretty picture).  .  .  .

     The whole point is; do not be stupid and bait the FAA by endangering aircraft, people and places in the first place.  If you absolutely have to get that shot from above the clouds or fog or whatever, there are places around the world were you can get that shot legally.  And it will cost you a lot less than your legal bills after being arrested, to travel and get that shot in that remote location.  Plus you get to travel to some cool place.  Think about it.

Aloha and Drone On!

Aloha Rebel,

     My apologies, my post was not directed at you.  I hope I am speaking to a larger audience on an issue of concern.  You just raised the question.  People do wonder how it will play out.  In fact, I was wondering if I should copy the above post into a new thread to give the issue a broader read and maybe stimulate more discussion.

     BTW, I am one of those rebellious sorts that did not do well in a classroom.  Pretty much self taught - even college.  So I can understand where you are coming from.  My post was just explaining how it will play out when it happens - and it will happen.  There is serious merit in what Osprey is saying.  

     But, how much damage will happen to what we enjoy doing before those who do not see the writing on the wall are able to start reading.

Aloha and Drone On!

Westside Osprey Posted at 2015-11-3 23:31
I am an instrument GA  pilot. Fog is a cloud on the ground, it is technically called stratus.

I hav ...

You're right and the rules are almost the same in Europe (we can do VFR on top only if there is some view of the ground).
There is no such "empty" airspace anywhere : a G class airspace is not an empty one, it is only a non controlled area (with rules) inside a FIR. And private pilots sometimes break the rules also : last month, 30 seconds after I put my P3 in the air, a small plane began to descend far below what it is authorized (300m above fields where I live in a G class space). He was breaking the rules but I decided to play it safe and put full stick down to land. I could see him but he certainly couldn't see my quad.
I wait till he was away, put a fresh battery and did my flight.

so much hate in this forum. i understand that we're trying to protect the hobby, but man...

Looks awesome mate!

Captain Pusheen Posted at 2015-11-3 13:45
Are you aware that I was flying no higher than 200 meters above ground? And this is fog, not cloud ...

Great video BTW and thanks for sharing.

Great intro... and video !