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iherzog97
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Brazil
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DJI recognizes that CSC is the major cause for accidents with their Phantom drones. Why is that? 1) Because it is a footnote in the user’s manual. 2) It’s not the procedure that we use regularly to turn engines off. 3) It’s a sticks situation that we can cross by during a regular flight. When we fly an aircraft, we do not pay attention the the sticks positions. We look the aircraft behavior and move sticks according to the fly attitude we want the aircraft to have.
  
If there is a need for an emergency procedure to shut engines off it HAS TO BE SOMETHING OTHER THAN A FLY COMMAND.
  
I strongly suggest that DJI puts a emergency button in the remote covered with a red tap. This is a universal sign for emergency trigger.
  
For the current remotes, use a combination of pressing two buttons at the same time.
  
People are losing their drones due to a poor engineering design for this procedure.
  
2016-3-8
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DJI-Tim
DJI team

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CSC has been out  for about 7 years now... Users got used to it already. Also flying your drone you would never use a command like pulling your sticks all the way down to the corners... It is very easy to get used to it for the new pilots as well. And of course there is an information about it in the manual...
2016-3-8
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iherzog97
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DJI-Tim Posted at 2016-3-8 10:01
CSC has been out  for about 7 years now... Users got used to it already. Also flying your drone you  ...

TIM. Sorry to say but you're wrong. Just see that this is the #1 cause for drone accidents. You do not get used to it until you have an accident with it. Just because it's out of our radar. There are hundreds of testimonials of people that lost their drone because by accident they put the sticks in the CSC position.
2016-3-8
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iherzog97
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DJI-Tim Posted at 2016-3-8 10:01
CSC has been out  for about 7 years now... Users got used to it already. Also flying your drone you  ...

I'd like also to add. CSC is so important that at least when we turn the radio on it could display a warning message. It almost looks like that DJI don't care for it. We loose our drone. DJI sells another one.
Sorry, but this is very disrespectful to your customers.
2016-3-8
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labroides
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iherzog97 Posted at 2016-3-9 00:04
TIM. Sorry to say but you're wrong. Just see that this is the #1 cause for drone accidents. You do ...

"Sorry to say but you're wrong. Just see that this is the #1 cause for drone accidents. "

No ... but what DJI has wrong is putting accidental CSC at the top of the list you refer to when accidental CSC is very rare.
Despite what that list says accidental CSC is NOT the leading cause of lost Phantoms.
It just doesn't happen in normal flight and experienced flyers understand this.
But every couple of weeks a new flyer thinks it is a constant risk and sees that incorrect top 10 list and writes another forum post like yours.

DJI have heard suggestions like yours 1000 times and aren't going to change it.
2016-3-8
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iherzog97
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Why do they not accept suggestions? This behavior is very disrespectful. Maybe the day they loose a class lawsuit they will be more reasonable.
2016-3-8
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citivas
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labroides@yahoo Posted at 2016-3-8 08:18
"Sorry to say but you're wrong. Just see that this is the #1 cause for drone accidents. "

No ...  ...

Can you elaborate.  Either it is the top reason or it isn't.  It's on the list.  You say that's not correct.  What are you basing that on?  Have they shared the stats?  And if it's wrong, why is it on the list DJI produced?  Thanks.
2016-3-8
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Kit Walker
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DJI-Tim Posted at 2016-3-9 00:01
CSC has been out  for about 7 years now... Users got used to it already. Also flying your drone you  ...

To be honest.., it's not something I think about while I'm flying.

Even though I use manual start/stop commands with the sticks each flight, I can see a situation where I could quite easily pull a CSC during flight, if I was having fun and not paying attention (and its unfair to cast such blame on people IMO, as it's a matter of taste/customisation/individualism).

-Although it is a very unlikely manoeuvre, it is achievable.
-Even though I am used to CSC, I must admit I do not consciously think about ensuring the sticks stay from that position.
-Stick combinations, and sensitivity can vary, so users may want different CSC setups in order to get desired shots.
-Recreational flying where sticks are placed into odd portions, and the drone is pushed to its limits may be a factor, however the negative attitude towards these hooligans shouldn't be reason enough to warrant this command.
-Newcommers unintentionally issuing this command may be silly, but the word "unintentional" should be focused on, and safety should be priority.
2016-3-8
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ryan209
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Yea, I think it's a far stretch to say this is the most common way the phantom is lost.  It is next to impossible to "accidentally"  put the sticks in that position unless you are attempting some outrageous maneuvers,  and I would imagine people who are  attempting complex maneuvers are either experienced, or have actually bothered to read the manual.
2016-3-8
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Fermin
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I hope that Phantom 4 change the CSC manoeuvre,
2016-3-8
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Fermin
lvl.2

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In my opinion, how many time we are doing something bad o well it is not a reason for not try to do the things beter,,,
2016-3-8
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citivas
lvl.3

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Someone markets a little plastic thing to put on the stick to prevent accidentally triggering it.  Seems a bit clunky though on needing to spin it around if you really needed the CSC.

https://www.phantomhelp.com/CSCSafety/
2016-3-8
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Fermin
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I am convinced that DJI can do something better
2016-3-8
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lido_bmt
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Frankly, if you're accidentally hitting the CSC cut off during normal flight, you deserve to have your Phantom crash. It's literally a stick position you'd never execute under any circumstances, including extremely crazy ones that racers do.

CSC cut-offs have existed in the remote flying world for longer than most people here have been alive; perhaps instead of barging in on something you've just picked up, you may want to learn what the current state of the hobby is. They work well when set to appropriate stick positions, and while DJI has a bunch of issues, the CSC cut-off stick positions are actually well thought out.
2016-3-8
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Fermin
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Do not blame the misuse of CSC to DJI, the procedure is described in the manual, but no one can deny that can be improved.
2016-3-8
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P3_Nutz
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lido_bmt Posted at 2016-3-8 20:32
Frankly, if you're accidentally hitting the CSC cut off during normal flight, you deserve to have yo ...

This^!!!!!
2016-3-8
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labroides
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citivas Posted at 2016-3-9 02:05
Can you elaborate.  Either it is the top reason or it isn't.  It's on the list.  You say that's no ...

What am I basing my comment on?
On reading thousands of posts on three forums over two years and hundreds of hours of flight.
Forums are full of crash reports where Phantoms were crashed or lost for lots of reasons.
But accidental CSC reports probably only turn up about once every three months.
And then when details come out, it's usually someone that didn;t read the manual and was flying like a drunken idiot rather than a genuine accident in regular flight.
Think about it ... what kind of flying would you have to be doing to be in danger of accidental CSC?
You'd be flying in a max speed downward corkscrew while also flying backwards + sideways at max speed.
That's something that just doesn't happen in any normal flight - and the number of reported cases backs this up.

I don't know why DJI ever have it in their list at all and putting it at the top causes unnecessary worry to new flyers that should be much more afraid of real dangers like not understanding RTH or compass calibration or flying close to trees and buildings.
Those all account for hundreds more phantoms than accidental CSC.
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ryan209
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Fermin Posted at 2016-3-8 14:42
Do not blame the misuse of CSC to DJI, the procedure is described in the manual, but no one can deny ...


There's literally hundreds of people denying the need for this functionality to be changed, many right here in from of your face, you just choose to not listen to them.
2016-3-8
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QuadBart
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Stuff like this makes me laugh.   
"Hey DJI, build us a Quad thats completely idiot-proof that protects us from ourselves. Even when you tell us not to do something and we do it.  And if you don't its YOUR fault DJi for not protecting us from ourselves. BTW can you also make a Quad that can wipe my ass?".....

How about taking responsibility for your actions?  I've yet to fly any of my Quads and find a reason to have my sticks in the CSC position in the normal course of flying....
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iherzog97
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lido_bmt Posted at 2016-3-8 17:32
Frankly, if you're accidentally hitting the CSC cut off during normal flight, you deserve to have yo ...

I totally disagree. Maybe you don't know DJI flight features.  
You're flying in a diagonal, so right stick in down-left.
At same time you're reducing altitude to get a bigger picture. Finally, you just want to better frame the image turning the aircraft to the right. Remember that the P3P you cannot move the camera sideways. You have to move the whole aircraft.
Bingo, you're in CSC position.

2016-3-8
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iherzog97
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Quite interest that some people have to verbally offend others to try to make their point. Shame on you.
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lido_bmt
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iherzog97 Posted at 2016-3-9 07:38
I totally disagree. Maybe you don't know DJI flight features.  
You're flying in a diagonal, so ri ...

If you think yawing full right while descending at max velocity while at the same time full rudder left AND pitching up at the same time is normal, I'd like to see exactly where this would happen.

If you're doing this as a cinematic move, it's not only a ridiculous move (the camera movement would make people vomit), you would never do it at full speed.

If you're doing it as an evasive maneuver, again, you'd NEVER do it, because the only time this would apply is if something is closing extremely rapidly from both in front of you and below and is on a collision course. Therefore your best course of action would be to drop altitude but NOT pitch it; you don't want any power going to pitching and maintaining altitude. So even in the extremely rare instance of this exact emergency happening, you wouldn't even want to execute the maneuver.
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labroides
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iherzog97 Posted at 2016-3-9 10:38
I totally disagree. Maybe you don't know DJI flight features.  
You're flying in a diagonal, so ri ...

"I totally disagree. Maybe you don't know DJI flight features.  
You're flying in a diagonal, so right stick in down-left.
At same time you're reducing altitude to get a bigger picture. Finally, you just want to better frame the image turning the aircraft to the right. "

I think you are the one that hasn't much experience flying a Phantom.
Think about it ... what kind of flying would you have to be doing to be in danger of accidental CSC?
You'd be flying in a max speed downward corkscrew while also flying backwards + sideways at max speed.
That is not a way to get your subject in frame, it's not something you'll ever do in normal flight.

You're scared of accidental CSC because it sounds scary (and because DJI continue to mislead flyers that it's the No. 1 cause of crashes)
Experienced flyers know it's not an issue at all.
But every week new flyers like you come in and tell the world how mad CSC is.
And it isn't.

2016-3-8
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Geebax
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The simple answer to this is that DJI are not going to change it, so get used to it. They have said as much, and despite those who feel so entitled that DJI should listen and react to their suggestions, get a grip on yourself.

2016-3-8
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mike.wildlight
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Here's the test that should be used:
Would you ever have a manned aircraft where a series of flight control inputs no matter how bizarre cuts primary propulsion by design?
Can anyone give an example of a drone using a military developed flight controller that has this "feature" implemented by normal flight controls?

You say why?
I say Why not?
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pgrover516
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QuadBart
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This topic is too funny...
2016-3-8
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Visual Air
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I would find it to be near impossible to execute the csc command when flying during normal flight.
even with aggressive manouvers i still can't see how one would put the sticks in this position and if your flying with that kind of undue control perhaps crashing and being grounded is deserved......
If anyone could provide their flight log showing this happened to them then post it here i would be amazed to see any.
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lido_bmt
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mike.wildlight Posted at 2016-3-9 09:56
Here's the test that should be used:
Would you ever have a manned aircraft where a series of flight  ...

Manned aircraft and remote controlled hobbyist aircraft aren't even in the same league when it comes to safety cutoffs. The former have a ton of controls directly at your fingertips for executing engine kills. The latter must do with a much smaller set of controls. However, in the history of hobbyist flying, CSCs have long since been a way to deal with emergency maneuvers, like engine kills. If chosen correctly (as in the case of the Phantom 3), the CSC will never be executed in any normal circumstance (or even abnormal circumstance) without it being a conscious choice.

Seriously. Fly your P3 over a bumper pit so it can crash without any damage, and try and execute the CSC while filming. Go back and watch that footage and try and imagine ANY possible time you'd want to recreate that shot. I'm going to tell you right now, that unless your desired shot is of an out of control aircraft that was struck in flight (it's not even a normal out of control shot, because you're moving BACKWARDS), you'll never want to execute that camera maneuver.
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mike.wildlight
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Your not getting the point.
If your drone cost 100k would you be happy with a flight control system that even could execute a CSC? (no matter how unlikely)
Is it bad now? - no
Could it be better?- yes

Its not a big deal, I just don't understand the resistance to improvements albeit small ones.
2016-3-9
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lido_bmt
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mike.wildlight Posted at 2016-3-9 18:47
Your not getting the point.
If your drone cost 100k would you be happy with a flight control system ...

Sure. It's like saying "Here's a button which is behind five safety mechanisms that will kill the motors. Do you want it?"  Yes, I do. Because I will never accidentally hit it and having options is a good thing.

You're worried that you'll accidentally execute the CSC even though it's pretty much never going to happen. Your problem isn't with the CSC, it's your own mental hang up that you can't get past.
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Kyokushin
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DJI-Tim Posted at 2016-3-8 14:01
CSC has been out  for about 7 years now... Users got used to it already. Also flying your drone you  ...

Get used? After a crash or before?

This should ba combination of other buttons on remote, not the sticks.
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QuadBart
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mike.wildlight Posted at 2016-3-8 20:56
Here's the test that should be used:
Would you ever have a manned aircraft where a series of flight  ...

This is an absolutely RIDICULOUS comparison!    You obviously have ZERO knowledge about Human Factors in the Aerospace Industry.    Do some research into what is necessary to make an aircraft that is either piloted by a human or carries human passengers vs. unmanned aircraft.   


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pgrover516
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QuadBart
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pgrover516 Posted at 2016-3-9 09:12
Some of the longtime hobby pilots here are like hobby snobs who don't want the "riffraff" opening ...

What is it that you guys aren't getting through your thick skulls?  The minute you introduce Humans into the picture everything changes.  The rules are different when lives are involved... What is so hard to understand about that?
If you want to make a point about changing the CSC use some other example that doesn't involve human lives...

2016-3-9
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citivas
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"CSC impossible to do by accident" ...

DRONE GUY holding his DJI remote controller, pleased, to his well-proportioned wife: "Honey you're the best for getting me this present!"

DRONE GUY WIFE leans in to kiss her happy honey.  Her chest pushes each stick toward him and by chance a little inward...


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DJI-Ken
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citivas Posted at 2016-3-10 00:09
"CSC impossible to do by accident" ...

DRONE GUY holding his DJI remote controller, pleased, to his ...

Impossible by accident from normal flying in normal conditions.
You could also trip and fall, land of the RC and execute a CSC.
It's there and been there for several years as a safety feature.

For someone who is scared of accidentally doing a CSC while the aircraft is in the air, test out your normal flying habits in the simulator and you can see there's no way under normal flying conditions that you would move the sticks into the CSC position.
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pgrover516
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QuadBart
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pgrover516 Posted at 2016-3-9 11:29
With all your articulate tact you dodge the question, what is the downside of making a change?

Because its time and effort to address an issue that is avoidable.  Why make changes when they clearly state its not a maneuver you should do?  Seems simple to me.  And  as been stated over and over, in the normal course of flying, you do not use this maneuver.      
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iherzog97
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DJI-Ken Posted at 2016-3-9 13:18
Impossible by accident from normal flying in normal conditions.
You could also trip and fall, land ...

I strongly disagree.
The form factor and flight features eliminate the from of the aircraft. Therefore, it induces the pilot to user the flight commands in its full possibiliteis.
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