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Phantom 4 Jello Effect
6253 36 2016-4-7
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dima6
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Hello!
I'm testing Phantom 4 during week it is awesome, but sometimes have jello effect at sides and back movements. Forward move is perfect.

Here are examples of footage
https://drive.google.com/file/d/ ... 28/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/ ... lU/view?usp=sharing

Does someone know is that a problem? Or this is result of speed and wind?
2016-4-7
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DJI-Paladin
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Hello, have you tried to calibrate the IMU and gimbal? BTW, it would be better if you could provide me with a screenshot with firmware version
2016-4-7
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dima6
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DJI-Paladin Posted at 2016-4-8 14:16
Hello, have you tried to calibrate the IMU and gimbal? BTW, it would be better if you could provide  ...

I downloaded yesterday latest version, and yes, i calibrate IMU and Gimbal also.
2016-4-8
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DJI-Paladin
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dima6 Posted at 2016-4-8 16:09
I downloaded yesterday latest version, and yes, i calibrate IMU and Gimbal also.

Do all the original videos have this issue?
2016-4-8
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Geebax
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The jello effect is caused by vibration of the camera. Have you tried hovering in front of yourself to see if the aircraft or the camera is shaking or vibrating? One possible cause is out-of-balance propellers. You might try changing props to see if this cures the problem.

You can read more about it here: http://forum.dji.com/thread-34408-1-1.html



2016-4-8
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dima6
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DJI-Paladin Posted at 2016-4-8 16:16
Do all the original videos have this issue?

Not all of them. Only sides and back movements, but also not every flight. I think there is because of wind and speed. But this is also strange, cause wind was 5-6 m/s.
2016-4-8
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dima6
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Geebax Posted at 2016-4-8 16:58
The jello effect is caused by vibration of the camera. Have you tried hovering in front of yourself  ...

I tried fly on low attitude in different sides and everything is perfect. So there is not total gimbal crush. Maybe small wrong gimbal mistakes, but no idea why, because IMU and Gimbal was carefully calibrated.
2016-4-8
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Geebax
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dima6 Posted at 2016-4-8 23:32
I tried fly on low attitude in different sides and everything is perfect. So there is not total gi ...

Very strange behaviour, perhaps it might be wise to look at prop balance.
2016-4-8
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BobbyB0
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What is your FPS and shutter speed?
2016-4-8
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johnlohk2010
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Phantom series usual problem when you pull the stick too hard and against strong wind. slow it down. My P3P could have the same issue if it flies more than 12m/s.
2016-4-8
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DJI-Paladin
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dima6 Posted at 2016-4-8 21:28
Not all of them. Only sides and back movements, but also not every flight. I think there is becaus ...

I'll try to pass it to our R&D team. Thanks for your information and you can give it another test with new props in different situations.
2016-4-8
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Li.F
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Try to use ND filter to bring your shutter speed under control. If you shooting at 24 fps use 1/50th shutter speed. If you shooting at 30fps, use 1/60th, @60fps, use 1/120th to significantly reduce jello effect during bright days.
2016-4-8
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Geebax
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Li.F Posted at 2016-4-9 11:54
Try to use ND filter to bring your shutter speed under control. If you shooting at 24 fps use 1/50th ...

PLease, the ND filter is NOT the cure for jello effect, all it does is partially mask it. Jello is caused by vibration in the camera, and the only way to remove it is to remove the vibration.
2016-4-8
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Li.F
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Geebax Posted at 2016-4-9 11:13
PLease, the ND filter is NOT the cure for jello effect, all it does is partially mask it. Jello is  ...

Proper shutter speed is one of the easiest ways to reduce the jellow effect and create a more cinematic looking video. The vibration however, may be the cause but would be much harder to get rid of.. You can try to balance the propeller on P4 to reduce the vibration

2016-4-8
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Geebax
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Li.F Posted at 2016-4-9 13:56
Proper shutter speed is one of the easiest ways to reduce the jellow effect and create a more cine ...

I'm sorry, but that video is not a demonstration of jello effect, it is the interaction between fast moving objects and the rolling shutter CMOS sensor in a camera, similar to the effect of fast pans.

Jello effect is solely caused by vibration of the camera sensor, and all you acheive by slowing the shutter is to introduce motion blur which masks the effect to a small degree. The jello will still be seen however.

I re-iterrrate, to cure jello, stop or reduce the vibration. It is not that difficult, in most cases it is caused by unballanced propellers.



2016-4-9
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birdingbilly
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Could you link to a reliable article please that states that vibration is the only cause of Jello - because frankly every article I have ever read about digital video refers to "Rolling Shutter Artifacts" as the "Jello Effect" - and is caused by EITHER a moving sensor OR a moving subject OR both, whatever the cause e.g vibration, panning or just a moving subject.
2016-4-9
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BobbyB0
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Geebax Posted at 2016-4-9 16:36
I'm sorry, but that video is not a demonstration of jello effect, it is the interaction between fas ...

And, what exactly do you think creates the wobbling seen from the "vibration"?  The movement of the sensor on the horizontal plane is recorded as lateral movement as the pixels are read from top to bottom.  If DJI had used global shutter in the camera this "jello" wouldn't appear at all.  I'm going to measure the rolling shutter in the P4 at 180 degree shutter angle and see just what the readout shows.  I suspect DJI has also used pixel binning and line skipping in the camera processor.   
2016-4-9
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Li.F
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The sensor can not effectively catch all the pixels in a single frame in a given amount of time, before the vibration caused the image to move ever so slightly, thus making the image having recorded shifted pixels (jello or rolling shutter or whatever you call it.)

Vibration is part of movement (like panning) that contributes to this effect, and reducing vibration in this instance certainly would help reduce jello effect.
But as a videographer, it is in your best interest to make certain the shutter speed is set at twice the frame rate. This not only helps reduce the visual effect of rolling shutter/jello, it also creates a more professional/cinamatic looking video.

2016-4-9
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Geebax
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Li.F Posted at 2016-4-10 02:34
The sensor can not effectively catch all the pixels in a single frame in a given amount of time, bef ...

Thank you, I am well aware of how a CMOS sensor works, I wrote a comprehensive thread on this some time ago: http://forum.dji.com/thread-34408-1-1.html

It might be worth reading it, you might learn something.
2016-4-9
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Geebax
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BobbyB0 Posted at 2016-4-9 23:23
And, what exactly do you think creates the wobbling seen from the "vibration"?  The movement of th ...

Likewise, read the thread here: http://forum.dji.com/thread-34408-1-1.html

DJI do not expressly use anything, as they use a proprietary video processing chip that does the work for them. I don't know what it is in the P4, but the P3 used the Ambarella chip. In the P4 it does use reduced scanning area to handle 1080p at 120 fps.

A global shutter is part of the sensor design, so DJI cannot simply opt to use one unless it is part of the sensor design, and for a low end consumer grade camera, there are none available of this size and cost.

2016-4-9
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Geebax
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birdingbilly Posted at 2016-4-9 19:23
Could you link to a reliable article please that states that vibration is the only cause of Jello -  ...

Then I suggest you Google Jello effect again and you will find it is produced by vibration. Popular use by people who know nothing about the subject may have distorted the meaning of the term. Perhaps you could produce evidence the Jello effect is not produced by vibration, or you could just read Wiki on the subject:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolling_shutter Look down the page under 'wobble'.

2016-4-9
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BobbyB0
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Geebax Posted at 2016-4-10 05:53
Likewise, read the thread here: http://forum.dji.com/thread-34408-1-1.html

DJI do not expressly u ...

In spite over your overwhelming arrogance I do have some knowledge of how a CMOS sensor performs; please forgive me if I don't consult your expertise on my next feature film production.  BTW, since you represent yourelf as the world authority on these matters how about measuring the rolling shutter in the P4 and posting your methodolgy of the results.
2016-4-9
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Geebax
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BobbyB0 Posted at 2016-4-10 10:41
In spite over your overwhelming arrogance I do have some knowledge of how a CMOS sensor performs; p ...

Not interested. The internet is a strange place, you might think you know more than me, and indeed you might. But I have been in the film and television business for over 50 years, and I also have cinema cameras of my own, and at least I know the difference between various artefacts of the rolling shutter.
2016-4-9
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BobbyB0
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Geebax Posted at 2016-4-10 09:09
Not interested. The internet is a strange place, you might think you know more than me, and indeed ...

Then use that 50 years of expertise to measure the millisecond offset of the P4  sensor scan and report to all the lowly peons here with your bloviation.  What about it, Professor, you up for such an elementary challenge?  Or, are you one of those "teachers" that can't actually do the application?
2016-4-9
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Geebax
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BobbyB0 Posted at 2016-4-10 12:29
Then use that 50 years of expertise to measure the millisecond offset of the P4  sensor scan and r ...

As I said, not interested and I don't have a P4 anyway. I informed the original poster of the reason for the jello and a cure for it. As you obviously don't have the problem, how about you take your perceived enormous intellect elsewhere and use it for good instead of hijacking the thread into a pointless argument.


2016-4-9
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BobbyB0
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Geebax Posted at 2016-4-10 11:34
As I said, not interested and I don't have a P4 anyway. I informed the original poster of the reaso ...

If anyone's argument is 'pointless' it's yours.  You've been condescending to everyone here with your Rainman mantra of VIBRATION, VIBRATION, VIBRATION.  You fail to understand that the new quick release prop design of the P4 precludes the use of a prop balancer at this time.  Perhaps, someone will create a shaft for the Dubro that will allow a fix.  However, currently, harping on your epiphany is POINTLESS!  That leaves the folks here with a jello problem few alternatives to resolve the issue.  In fact, using ND filters and adjusting fps and shutter speed are the only choices.  Maybe it's YOU that should move on; I think The People's Court may still be on, Raymond.
2016-4-10
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TK-421
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Tip: the author has been banned or deleted automatically shield
2016-4-10
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BobbyB0
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TK-421 Posted at 2016-4-11 03:01
The end of the included prop shaft in the Dubro 499 works great for the P4 props. Two of my props  ...

The shaft on mine is too big, won't fit unless I enlarge the hole in the prop.
2016-4-10
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Li.F
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Geebax Posted at 2016-4-10 11:34
As I said, not interested and I don't have a P4 anyway. I informed the original poster of the reaso ...

I think you spend too much time on researching  Jello my friend. No one's questing your "authority" on cmos sensors and jello. Just chill and go out and enjoy flying your bird.
2016-4-10
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gustofusion
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The vibration you see in side to side movement is the wind vibrating the camera. I have seen this when traveling fast in a sidewards direction. Flying slower will eliminate the vibration.
2016-4-11
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BobbyB0
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TK-421 Posted at 2016-4-11 03:01
The end of the included prop shaft in the Dubro 499 works great for the P4 props. Two of my props  ...

Found another shaft and it did indeed fit the P4 props.  I had put it away and had been using threaded shafts for the P3.
2016-4-11
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ajconstruction.
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Hi guys, I have problems with jello or jerking up and down, however it only happens when I pitch the camera at a downward angle and in slight to moderate windy conditions, usually flying higher altitudes. When the camera is a 0 horizontal or down, no jerking or very little. I am wondering if something is defective with the equipment or design. My P2 with gimbal and GoPro never had that problem. Any thoughts?
2016-8-9
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Geebax
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ajconstruction. Posted at 2016-8-10 08:47
Hi guys, I have problems with jello or jerking up and down, however it only happens when I pitch the ...

Perhaps you could post a clip so we can see what you are referring to.
2016-8-9
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leocabo1
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Hello there

I just want to tell you my own experience.

I moved from yuneec to DJI, for many dif reasons,anyway....I was experiencing Jello on pahntom 4 after i bought it, just 1 month ago. i already had a DUBRO calibrator (bought for my Typhoon Q500) .

After i calibrated my props and changed my camera settings to manual etc.... Which i have to say i dont know which of both fix my jello problem..... The problem was 100% Fixed !...

I hope you already solved your problem... But i have to say that definitly jello has to be with VIBRATION or even shutter/speed  and aircraft speed, any of THOSE.

Thats my own experience, i hope it helps!

Happy Flying to everyone here !!
2016-8-9
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ajconstruction.
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Geebax Posted at 2016-8-9 16:23
Perhaps you could post a clip so we can see what you are referring to.

Here is a link to a video example See video


https://www.dropbox.com/s/38lxgsbp07l7kld/File%20Aug%2009%2C%209%2046%2030%20PM.mov?dl=0



2016-8-9
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Geebax
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ajconstruction. Posted at 2016-8-10 15:03
Here is a link to a video example See video

Yes, you have an unstable gimbal there. It most likely needs to be sent in for repair.
2016-8-9
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CDPiC
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Hi, my Phantom 4 Adv had Jello effects. After repair (was by DJI) for short time was okay, now again have this problem if the drone hanging on a point. If drone in moving than jello most gone.  
And the other problem the Drone always turning left without control and wind...any tipps?



Original Footages:
https://youtu.be/Y85qfQuLQxAand

https://youtu.be/zDVmW4h8OJo maybe quality has youtube damaged.
2019-7-26
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