I am proposing to add a pop-up confirmation in the DJI app to confirm motor shut down when a craft is at altitude.  Exact altitude threshold TBD.  The argument against is that immediate shutdown is required and a pop-up confirmation would take too long.  I'm wondering in real life how many people have actually had to perform an emergency shutdown of their motors in mid air?


If you have actually performed an emergency shutdown in mid-air can you please reply with a YES?  thank you.

I have not had to, but I can guarantee I don't want to deal with a pop up message in the event that I need to do it.

You will get a message.......CRASH!!!

Never have done that (well over two hundred flights with this P3P)! WHY? About the only case I can even imagine is that the craft is captured by an eagle or hawk and that I wouldn't want to damage the bird... or maybe you just stupidly flew into the face of some poor paraglider and didn't want to cut up his suspension lines...

Jkeller84 Posted at 2016-4-23 00:39
I have not had to, but I can guarantee I don't want to deal with a pop up message in the event that  ...

I can see some folks not wanting a message.  It would be easy to make it a setting in the software so those that want confirmation will get prompted and those that don't will not.  That said, haven't had anyone say they needed to purposefully kill their motors.

91 reads and no one has ever had to do it....

Considering it's an extremely rare circumstance where you would use it and the potential damage and loss if it occurs, I think the pop-up idea to confirm motor shutdown is logical.

Consider this, there also is no warranty for a CSC crash.    Statistically speaking, a no recourse, $500 - $6,000 loss, self destruct maneuver.
If I was making these I'd LOVE this feature.

B.K. Posted at 2016-4-23 08:24
91 reads and no one has ever had to do it....

You'll find almost no-one has ever had to kill the motors in flight.
There just aren't many situations where it would be needed.
Although the dramatic scenario of having your Phantom zooming towards a mother and baby is often mentioned in forums as a possible time to CSC, it's fanciful nonsense.
If you are in such a situation, it would be simple to steer the Phantom, stop it or climb away from the sensitive target.
If the the Phantom isn't responding to any other input, it's not going to respond to CSC anyway.

I would like to have the option.

"Considering it's an extremely rare circumstance where you would use it and the potential damage and loss if it occurs, I think the pop-up idea to confirm motor shutdown is logical."

I think the last thing you need when you want to stop the motors in a hurry is another confirmation message to deal with. And DJI have said they won't do it anyway.

I think if someone ever had to shutdown in flight, it would be because of an emergency.   (Loss of control with the drone racing towards a crowd).  In a case like that, I think the last thing someone would want to see is a popup window asking if they were sure.

And in a situation like that, who the hell is going to be looking at the screen anyway?  You will be looking at your bird, headed into whatever it is you don't want it to go to.  Damned stupid idea!

Never had to do it,  although I am prepared at moments notice.  I recently got permission to fly at a Airport next to a runway (untowered grass) with the stipulation that I am a member of AMA and notify manager when I fly..  If need be He will is issue a NOTAM.  I listen to the Airport's UNICOM transmissions and keep a close eye out with a spotter.

Thankfully the answer is no. Which Phantom are you flying?

So lots of opinions, but no one has a real case where they had to shut down the motor.

The awkward nature of the kill switch combnation is already designed so that it can only be activated by someone who actually wants to kill the motors. I don't see any need for an additional confirmation. In fact, the additional time to acknowledge and accept a further warning mght possibly result in disaster striking before the motors could be stopped.  To me, it would be a little like dialling 911 and then having an additional automated message asking "did you really want to dial 911?"

I have done it on purpose and plan to use it as a bail out in emergency!  But I have a parachute that works good so I don't have to worry about crash.  I would not want a message however!!  If this is added please add the ability to disable in the app settings (disable the message pop up and instead immediately shut down) please.  Thanks

ok, only 1 person out of 300 so far has actually performed a kill.  

For all those that say a pop-up would take to long, it is simple to make it user configurable.  Those that want it can have it, those that don't - won't.  Software is beautiful that way!

I've not used at height.  I have used on the ground when the thing tipped over on takeoff.  Was really pretty reflexic.  I think all this angst about the CSC maneuvers is from beginning pilots.   Once you have any sort of experience you realize that the CSC maneuver is awfully hard to accidentally trip (really, you were rapidly descending backwards with a maximal yaw and translation - were you trying to escape from a dragon or something?).  Practice on the simulator until you're comfortable.  Get a toy drone and crash that into things.

I really have no plans to use CSC but I like having a kill switch - just like the ignition lanyard on my boat.  Which is an interesting analogy.  Every summer, you read about new boat owners that suddenly stop dead in the water because the lanyard popped out.  They're all bent out of shape because they really don't need that thing, why should it exist.  Not many people fall out of the boat.

But some people do - a 20 something guy was killed several years ago around my neck of the woods because he disabled the kill switch,  pitched off the boat which proceeded to run in circles, chomping him to bits.  A P3 isn't in the class of a 50 HP motor but it's nice to be able turn it off.  Fast.

I understand the concerns, but can you not kill the motors with the controls just as quick as you might have to look at a pop-up and confirm that action? If I remember correctly, don't they mention that in the manual about not pulling both sticks to the opposite corners because it will turn the motors off, especially for those new users. I agree it seems rare to want to do that knowing what is going to happen to your aircraft! I get that stuff happens, but we should all be aware of our surroundings and try to be mindful of what can happen. I never fly towards or around people for that reason.

A confirmation dialog after a CSC?

NO

BAD IDEA

Also: no, I've never had to, but if I did, I would want it to do what it is designed to do: STOP THE MOTORS.

If you are replying to this thread the question is have you done it?  If you haven't, no need to reply.  

BTW....for all those who say a pop-up is a bad idea (about 1/2 the respondents), please be aware that the proposal is for this to be configurable.  If you like to kill your motors and crash your quad without the microsecond delay of responding to a pop-up you can do so.   If you don't, like me, then let me make that choice.  

Only once did I do a CSC and that is when I tried the Lichi app for the first time (did not know it did not have the calibration). My bird did a flip and I did a CSC to shut down the motors.

This was of course on the ground.
I asked a while ago about why the CSC is an option while in mid flight and so far the answer I got was it is embedded into the firmware with no option to change.
Well, I looked deep into the firmware and I did see that they could add a simple Boolean to engage or not to engage the CSC.

Granted there are other parts in the firmware for battery failure, motor failure, ect. that also kill the motors, but that is separate from the stick command based CSC.

So logically, they could add into the UI (user Interface) an advanced option to enable or not enable CSC.
Even your option of a dialog screen to engage the CSC when the stick command is executed.

I would think one of these options would help the beginners, and advanced pilots and give them the choice so that to avoid the CSC mistake.
At least this is how I would code it.


The other option

microcyb Posted at 2016-4-26 04:36
Only once did I do a CSC and that is when I tried the Lichi app for the first time (did not know it  ...

Exactly what I was thinking microcyb!  

B.K. Posted at 2016-4-26 09:52
Exactly what I was thinking microcyb!

Messing with an emergency stop mechanism and giving it optional configurations doesn't sound like a very good safety strategy.
When you need to hit the emergency stop button, you don't want to have to fumble with additional settings or wonder what configuration has been set.

microcyb Posted at 2016-4-26 06:36
Only once did I do a CSC and that is when I tried the Lichi app for the first time (did not know it  ...

Sorry, but I truly think it is a bad idea. Half the people on here don't even read the messages that come up on the screen. If you have to stop the motors in an emergency, then you don't need to screw around with confirmation messages.

I reckon just add a button or missile switch on the controller to do it, rather than a stick combo!

Geebax Posted at 2016-4-26 08:51
Sorry, but I truly think it is a bad idea. Half the people on here don't even read the messages th ...

Sorry Geebax that you think it is a bad idea to give people an option.  I personally prefer to be given a choice.   I've got enough liberals in our nanny state government trying to tell me what I can and cannot do.  Perhaps it's different down under.

B.K. Posted at 2016-4-26 11:10
Sorry Geebax that you think it is a bad idea to give people an option.  I personally prefer to be  ...

Don't start with that political crap, I don't give a shit what problems you have with nanny's in your country. I just think the whole idea of putting an additional confirmation step in the process is plain stupid. It would be like having a message come up on your phone when you hit the brakes hard on your car asking if you really want to brake that hard.

Geebax Posted at 2016-4-26 09:15
Don't start with that political crap, I don't give a shit what problems you have with nanny's in y ...

And you think because you feel this way no one else should be able to do anything different.  Classic liberal.

B.K. Posted at 2016-4-26 21:30
And you think because you feel this way no one else should be able to do anything different.  Clas ...

"Classic liberal"
You have no idea what his political leanings are and whatever they are and whatever they might be, that is irrelevant to the topic being discussed.
Resorting to derogatory political labels is a pretty desperate debating tactic.
It's a pretty good indication that you don't have much of a point to make.

Whoa guys chill!
Just throwing out ideas, you know brain storming.
Like I said, it would be at least nice to have an advanced option to allow someone to turn off CSC.  
Odds of DJI ever doing this or anything like this are like winning the lottery so really this topic is rather mute.

All I know, is I disabled it myself, and that is that. {:2_32:}

It seems likely that if these things were really so prone to getting into situations that required a csc, they would have built a deadman switch into the controller. In fact, they might even be required to build a deadman switch into the controller.  Something like you have to squeeze the control stick at all times to keep the motor running.  Like they have on trains. Since they did not do that ,  I conclude the issue has not happened enough to be statistically significant.  Also,  when I am flying along,if I see an impending crash, the last thing I want  is to kill the power. With no power, I have no control and the flight of the Phantom becomes a ballistic exercise,  dependent on velocity,  inertia and trajectory.  May as well be a flying rock.

microcyb Posted at 2016-4-26 04:36
Only once did I do a CSC and that is when I tried the Lichi app for the first time (did not know it  ...

I really like these ideas.

I think this has been mentioned already, NO ONE USES CSC while in flight. The only people who seem to ever use it are the poor saps who accidentally performed it and..... CRASH!!

Yes, i've done it. It's required by law in my country to test the CSC when registering the drone and also had to do it a couple of times.
It's also required to use a parachute at all times, so the drone hasn't suffer any damage at all.
CSC needs to be instant. It's an emergency move.
You don't want to sign papers before taking the fire extinguisher, isn't?

Kneepuck Posted at 2016-4-26 23:29
It seems likely that if these things were really so prone to getting into situations that required a ...

Yes, Kneepuck, this is my feeling as well.  I can't see where turning my drone into a falling rock is advantageous.  Who knows what it may hit on the ground and I think mid-air accidents are better avoided through control, not lack of.  Still only one person who has said they every did it purposefully, except for Lord Neo from Chile where apparently there are regulations...and parachutes on drones!

But, each to his own, and I think DJI should give the operator the option.  It's software....not that hard.  Perhaps Litchi will put it in their app.

B.K. Posted at 2016-4-27 08:50
Yes, Kneepuck, this is my feeling as well.  I can't see where turning my drone into a falling rock ...

'Perhaps Litchi will put it in their app.'

They can't do it, the CSC command is direct from the RC unit to the drone, it does not pass through the app.

microcyb Posted at 2016-4-26 06:36
Only once did I do a CSC and that is when I tried the Lichi app for the first time (did not know it  ...

Your proposal would probably have a slider like "cancel RTH" has, not an "apply" button.  Aside from the extra 3 seconds it takes to read the text, taking your eyes off the aircraft in the process, you then have to activate the slider.  I don't know if it's just me but it always seems to take me at least two swipes to get it to register. Maybe I swipe it too far or not far enough?

It certainly shouldn't be a consideration at all in an emergency shutdown or cancel RTH.  IIRC in earlier firmware, pressing the RTH button again during a RTH would cancel it.  Easy to do without taking your eyes off the aircraft.  I have had situations where it was getting close to home about to land and I have needed to abort.  Once a cyclist and his dog rode through the landing zone.  On other occasions the return home point wasn't exactly where it should have been and may have overlapped with other objects -- trees/bushes, fences, parked cars...  Once I had realized the need to abort I had to look down and fiddle with an abort dialog, then look up to find the aircraft again.  It was generally only metres away from the ground anyway by then.  Since then I have taken to applying opposing joystick inputs to keep it in the air or move to the side to clear ground objects.  But this isn't a great idea as you are flying blind as you look down to the control screen.  You could wander off anywhere by applying input while looking down! Then you have to take your hands off the controls to touch the screen to cancel RTH.  Bad luck if you are applying a left stick and right stick input at the time.   This setup is already problematic for RTH cancellation, it would be similarly undesirable for an emergency shutdown command.