Hello dear Forum,

Last week I had a wonderful film project with my students and my new P3A.
But just now, an hour ago, my new P3A crashed again.


It happend like this:


I was making a lovely shot of a small river and was standing near a little stone bridge
To finish it i would fly under the small bridge but when I was under there..I got
the message ‘ATTI mode’ and the aircraft just crashed against the wall under the little bridge and fell down in the water.
I tried everything to get it back, went home for some tools and tried for almost an hour but the aircraft is gone.
What can I do, did I make an mistake?


Regards and thanks for any input.


Siep


The bridge:

I would venture to guess that you lost GPS functions when you went under the bridge... the aircraft went into ATTI mode after losing GPS, and it was basically up to you to fly it at that point until you came out the other side of the bridge where the GPS would have picked back up again...

I would have to say, pilot error in this case...
(just sayin')

There's several posts here concerning flying under bridges and such that seem to all end simillarly...
Everybody needs to learn to fly in ATTI mode, and not rely so much on GPS guidance... learn to fly...

"Arri mode" was "Atti mode". By the sound of that message, and the look of that bridge, you probably lost satellite connection. Seems like the space between bottom of the bridge and the water surface doesn't leave much room for error. Flying in atti mode (without GPS) is not easy if you've never done it, so if you don't expect to lose GPS, you're in for a very unpleasant surprise, especially between a bridge and water.

I'm very sorry for your loss, Siep.

sevadu Posted at 2016-5-3 15:05
"Arri mode" was "Atti mode". By the sound of that message, and the look of that bridge, you probably ...

Thanks,

Sevadu and 'justGoThere'..
I just began to love it and the Advanced flew beautiful.
Now I have only the remote and a spare battery (new)..
Is it possible to buy only a plane?
Or is it a better idea to buy a complete new one and try to sell the RC?

Thanks for any input,

Siep

siep Posted at 2016-5-3 23:29
Thanks,

Sevadu and 'justGoThere'..

Nice bridge, shame you hit it.

The first thing you need to do in this situation is retrieve it as soon as possible.  Then disconnect all power.  Speed is essential otherwise it is killing the electronics.  It will happen quickly in dirty water as it conducts electricity better than clean water.  Wash it off in the cleanest water you can get.  Then dry it out -- this could take days or weeks.  Then try powering it up, you could get lucky.  Have a read of some advice I gave in this thread.

The river in the photo looks pretty muddy so I don't know how successful you would be.  But it is worth a shot.

DJI sell just the airframe separately for replacement, but you may have to buy another camera separately and other accessories, then fit them all.  It is up to you whether you get another new unit complete, or sell off the controller.  It will depend on the prices in your area and how much you can sell the current extras.

http://store.dji.com/product/pha ... om=related_products

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1164682-REG/dji_cp_pt_000220_phantom_3_professional.html

JustGoThere Posted at 2016-5-3 08:56
I would venture to guess that you lost GPS functions when you went under the bridge... the aircraft  ...

I agree, one needs to learn the basic of copter flight. Just like a pilot who only knows how to fly by computer on his or her aircraft.  

Thanks Endotherm,
I tried right away and also a second time today but I can't find the Phantom..So no chance of drying etc..I do have an extra battery and there fore I think about getting a new Advanced but also looking at the P3P but dont know if the 4K is bringing so much extra?

Maxi3D Posted at 2016-5-3 17:10
I agree, one needs to learn the basic of copter flight. Just like a pilot who only knows how to fl ...

Hello Maxi3D,

Did you never start.. or made mistakes? Of course I want to learn to fly better.
But it happend.
Post like yours feel like salt in a wound.

siep Posted at 2016-5-3 11:07
Hello Maxi3D,

Did you never start.. or made mistakes? Of course I want to learn to fly better.

Everyone crashes in the beginning, it's part of the hobby... some of us have come over from the RC Helicopter hobby and learned (and crashed) while learning to fly those "non-stable" aircraft.

People coming over from the RC helicopter world, are usually amazed at how stable this platform is, and recognize that there is no substitute for actual flying experience. You can't rely on the GPS function alone, you're just asking for problems at some point.

again, take the time and learn to fly the aircraft, it's will save you from crashing sometime in the future.

siep Posted at 2016-5-3 17:07
Hello Maxi3D,

Did you never start.. or made mistakes? Of course I want to learn to fly better.

I'd be more concerned about what you were trying to teach your students.  How not to use a drone?

Sorry about your accident, it happens to every new comer. Just a shame that yours was a total loss.
Once you went under the bridge then you will lose gps signal and the P3 will enter atti mode which means it does not stay still in one place and will drift. So if I had to guess, I'm afraid I would have to go with pilot error. I don't mean this to add salt to the injury, just being objective. I wish you the best

Was it swept downstream by the current or just cant find in the water?

nigelw Posted at 2016-5-3 18:21
I'd be more concerned about what you were trying to teach your students.  How not to use a drone?

Ha, OK I like that joke.(*_*)
My teaching is more about coloring, editing and story telling.
A few students got very much interested in drone filming.
And we try to share some footage for a project.
I am not pretending to teach them how to fly.
So don't be concerned.

How can I improve myself to fly in ATTI mode..What's a good way of doing that?
Thanks
Siep

rayrokni Posted at 2016-5-3 18:42
Sorry about your accident, it happens to every new comer. Just a shame that yours was a total loss.
...

Hello rayrokni,

Thanks

Siep

siep Posted at 2016-5-4 00:56
Ha, OK I like that joke.(*_*)
My teaching is more about coloring, editing and story telling.
A few  ...

Go to an open field and turn switch to atti mode and try flying and landing. I would choose a very calm day and as you get better you can try in windier days, depends on how much you want to push yourself.
Any time I fly I try to fly at least 2 batteries in atti mode, so that if there's ever a malfunction of the tech stuff I can switch to atti mode and be able to fly the p3.
Btw. Ignore all the people having fun at your expense, this forum, as many others, it's full of them and the know it all. So don't get disheartened by them, it is still a very good place to come to for info.
Good luck

siep Posted at 2016-5-3 12:07
Hello Maxi3D,

Did you never start.. or made mistakes? Of course I want to learn to fly better.

There are toys copters out there that you can learn the basic of drone flight, but in your case of flying under a narrow bridge with small margin of error, I don't know. Sorry I offended you.  

siep Posted at 2016-5-3 17:56
Ha, OK I like that joke.(*_*)
My teaching is more about coloring, editing and story telling.
A few ...

That's the thing though, you are teaching students very bad habits.

As a photographer, the number one priority is to know your tools.  I expect it's the same in most arts.  You wouldn't paint a masterpiece without knowing how to mix paints, would you?

If your students are interested in drone footage, I'd say there's a good chance they may want to take it further.  You are inadvertently teaching them to be very irresponsible.

The first thing you need to do is understand the dangers of flying drones.  Then, you need to understand how your aircraft works.  Judging by your description of the accident, you haven't read the manual at all.  If you had, you would know what ATTI mode is.

So, my suggestion would be to read the manual & fully understand it.  Then, read it again to pick up the many bits you will have missed or forgotten, epsecially the description of the RTH features (it's a complicated machine).  Get the manual here.  It's often updated without notice, so be sure to read the latest version.

When you feel confident, wait for a calm dry day & find a very large open space where there are no people, trees or obstacles of any kind.  Take off in GPS mode, ascend to say 30 metres & switch to ATTI mode & see what happens.  If it drifts in the wind, you can always switch back to GPS mode, at which point it will stop where it is & hover until you get your confidence back.  Then try again & maybe try some maneuvers.   Then just practice.

Under no circumstances should you try at low altitude or near any kind of obstacle, as you risk damaging your aircraft or injuring yourself or a bystander.  People can & have been blinded by negligent pilots.

digdat0 Posted at 2016-5-3 18:53
Was it swept downstream by the current or just cant find in the water?

I am not shure, if it drifted more upstream but  I suppose it has to..because  I really tried and can not find it.

Siep

Maxi3D Posted at 2016-5-3 19:08
There are toys copters out there that you can learn the basic of drone flight, but in your case of ...

It's Ok.. thanks for replaying.

Siep

rayrokni Posted at 2016-5-3 19:06
Go to an open field and turn switch to atti mode and try flying and landing. I would choose a very ...

I will try that..And thanks for the explanation.

Siep

Once I am in these "Waters" ..(and I want to continue with this great hobby)   
What would you advise me to buy, an Advanced or a Pro I still have a (new) battery, that is something to start with isn't it?

Siep

nigelw Posted at 2016-5-3 19:11
That's the thing though, you are teaching students very bad habits.

As a photographer, the number  ...

Hello nigelw,

Thanks for explaining about practicing, I really do appreciate that.

But what I do not like is that you write about me and telling me I am teaching my students
bad habits and to be irresponsible. What gives you the right?
We don't fly over people and buildings and you don't know anything about my students and their relation
to this project..so I don't accept you're judging
You may come to me and criticize me for being a stupid flyer..and there you right. I never should have gone under that bridge.
I learned something and it cost me a lot of money, but I don't need you're life lessons about my dedicated job and passion as a teacher.

Siep

siep Posted at 2016-5-4 01:21
Once I am in these "Waters" ..(and I want to continue with this great hobby)   
What would you advis ...

The battery is common I both models, the p3p has dropped allot in price, so if there's not much price difference between the Porto and advanced you may want to go with the pro if the 4k camera is of importance to you.
Don't forget your RC,  the battery charger, and spate props you got from the other will be a useful back up when you buy the next one whether advanced or pro

siep Posted at 2016-5-4 01:21
Once I am in these "Waters" ..(and I want to continue with this great hobby)   
What would you advis ...

If it was me, I'd pay a student to dive in that water (safely) to find it and then fix. But ... Maybe buying a new drone isn't bad idea if it's lost. You can buy just the copter part from Dji and sync to your remote controller. I crashed mine a few weeks back, didn't leave the scene till I found it. But under water is different story.  Here's link to the body, i says €669 (ouch) http://store.dji.com/product/pha ... ler-battery-charger
If you can find the crashed one it may be a lot cheaper.

They guy made a mistake, crashed the bird and has learned a lot in the process and so have his students if they decide to pick up the hobby. He also isn't crying about it being someone else's fault like a lot of people do. Not too sure what the beef is with some people on here.

siep Posted at 2016-5-3 18:32
Hello nigelw,

Thanks for explaining about practicing, I really do appreciate that.

I'm sorry if it sound like I'm judging you, that really isn't my intention.

I'm also sorry that you don't like what I'm saying, but I'm not saying it to make friends.  I have a responsibility as an adult to point out the danger you're putting others in through your own negligence.

Every time I hear from people who clearly don't understand the dangers involved, I remember a particular case in the UK where a toddler was blinded by an innocent family friend who didn't understand the risks.  You can read about it here.

By not fully understanding the risks, you are putting your students & possibly others in danger.  As a teacher, you have much more responsibility than most to act in a safe manner & lead by example.  I'm sorry you lost money, but it's better than causing someone an injury.

G_MEZ_G Posted at 2016-5-3 18:42
They guy made a mistake, crashed the bird and has learned a lot in the process and so have his stude ...

Please read my post above, it should explain my position.

G_MEZ_G Posted at 2016-5-3 19:42
They guy made a mistake, crashed the bird and has learned a lot in the process and so have his stude ...

Hello G_Metz_G,

Thanks for understanding.
Regards,
Siep

digdat0 Posted at 2016-5-3 19:40
If it was me, I'd pay a student to dive in that water (safely) to find it and then fix. But ... Ma ...

Hello DigdatO,

Thanks again for you're suggestions.

Siep

Looking at the bridge it's not a difficult fly. Best learn to fly in Atti mode.

Bhujang Posted at 2016-5-3 20:08
Looking at the bridge it's not a difficult fly. Best learn to fly in Atti mode.

Hello Bhujang,

I will do..and maybe then I will try again.

JustGoThere Posted at 2016-5-3 18:19
Everyone crashes in the beginning, it's part of the hobby... some of us have come over from the RC ...

Hi JustGoThere,

You write "You can't rely on the GPS function alone, you're just asking for problems at some point."

What I'm wondering is this; I see many threads on max. flight distance and such. What happens if you lose GPS when your bird is out of sight? If you switch to atti mode in such a case, can you still use the maps function in the DJI Go app to turn the bird's nose to you and then fly back to your position in atti mode? I'd think the bird isn't visible on the 'app map' when it lost GPS. And if that's so, I guess atti mode won't help you if you don't know which way the bird is facing.

Really curious to this, as it might limit me from flying far away if I know losing GPS (when out sight) means "bye bye birdie".

Don't heed that guy, we all learn much more in life through making mistakes it sounds like you learned a valuable lesson and so will your students, it's easy to fall the hard part of life is getting back up again, get yourself a new P3P and get back to teaching your students the beautiful art of photography..
(Some people think there job in life is to police the rest of us, if we listen to those we wouldn't get up in the morning)
David

Actually You not safe flight

ardrijewellery@ Posted at 2016-5-3 21:50
Don't heed that guy, we all learn much more in life through making mistakes it sounds like you learn ...

I agree with you.  But not at someone else's expense.  Hurt yourself by all means, but don't hurt others.  That's all.

Ignorance of the risks won't help anyone after the event if someone gets hurt.

Lessons learned the hard way usually sink in deepest.
We tend to forget all the awesome days of no turmoil.
How many nights of a great nights sleep do we recall.
But we remember all those nights we stayed up well past Dawn... ;-)
Buy yourself a Phantom 3 Pro, and you will be amazed... Hehe

RedHotPoker

sevadu Posted at 2016-5-3 15:41
Hi JustGoThere,

You write "You can't rely on the GPS function alone, you're just asking for proble ...

Losing GPS has nothing to do with losing FPV or visual site of your craft.  It has to do with losing GPS reception by the GPS receiver's antenna, which is located directly in the center of the top shell.  If there are thick trees overhead, or anything else that blocks access by the antenna to the sky (trees, bridges, roof, etc.), you will lose GPS.

I am curious about how fast you were going while under the bridge.  I'm guessing you were going slow.

Your crash was caused by loss of satellite signal by the drone's GPS. This is incorrect, as others have said below.  My fingers were obviously faster than my slowing mind!   When it goes into RTH, it first climbs to RTH altitude, and then goes home.  Obviously, trying to go to RTH altitude while under the bridge would cause a collision with the bottom of the bridge.  The same can happen when flying in the forest due to loss of signal because the foliage can block it if it is thick enough.

The above is offered as educational information for you and anyone else who doesn't understand how this stuff works, and is not necessarily complete.

ardrijewellery@ Posted at 2016-5-3 22:50
Don't heed that guy, we all learn much more in life through making mistakes it sounds like you learn ...

Thanks David,

For you're kind and wise words.


Siep

Oh  crap! I never flew under such structures, but I wonder, if in the future if I do, I should just go into atti mode before I enter, and back to p when I emerge. I'd also say that if such is my plan, I'd probably change "on signal loss" to hover vs. return home. Any time you may fly "under something" it's a good idea not to have return home enabled for signal loss... There's NOTHING you can do while the aircraft assends to RTH altitude.... Sorry for you crash! That got to suck

AG0N-Gary Posted at 2016-5-3 23:40
Losing GPS has nothing to do with losing FPV or visual site of your craft.  It has to do with losi ...

You're right I was going slow..but I don't think it went in the RTH mode. It started drifting (ATTI mode message)  and instead of taking control (i still have to learn that)  I watched it bounce the side wall with the props and in a matter of seconds it dropped down in the water.
Talking about a new Bird, I see the difference between a P3A and a P3P is only about 200 dollar (prices dropped)
would you (who have seen) the differences between the P3A and the P3P go for the P3P..is the 4K worth it?,
I know I can downscale and I do work on Macbook which can handle it and also like to combine it with some ground footage from the Sony A7R (4k)
Thanks again for any input

Siep