[size=14.6667px]I described my story in different post

[size=14.6667px]Dealing with DJI

[size=14.6667px]I just want to warn those who are using third party app (like Litchi) that according to DJI using it V[size=14.6667px]oids Warranty.
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[size=14.6667px][size=14.6667px]Unfortunately I did not get any respond from Litchi yet but DJI send me email after my P4 flew away into the tree

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Repairs cannot begin until the invoice is paid. This will not be a warranty repair unfortunately, a 3rd party app was used during this flight, which is not covered under warranty.

[size=14.6667px]Funny thing is I did not find any information about that in Warranty Specs

[size=14.6667px]1. The following conditions must be met for warranty service:

• During warranty period, product is normal used, as intended by the manufacturer.
• No unauthorized disassembling, modification or installation has been performed.
• Labels, Serial Numbers, waterproof mark, false proof mark, etc. show no signs of tampering or altering;
• Valid proof-of-purchase, receipt or order number DJI Online Store
  

[size=14.6667px]2. Following situations are not subject to warranty service conditions:

• Crash or burning caused by non-manufacturing factors.
• Damage caused by unauthorized modification, disassembling or shell opening which did not follow the instruction of official manuals.
• Damage caused by improper installation, or incorrect use or operation despite of the guidance of manuals.
• Damage caused by unauthorized modification of circuit, mismatch or misuse of battery and charger.
• Damage caused by any flights which didn’t follow the instructions of the manuals.
• Damage caused by operation in bad weather (i.e. strong wind, rain, sand/dust storm, etc.)
• Damage caused by operating the unit in an electromagnetic interference environment (i.e. mining area, radio transmitting tower, high-voltage wire, substation, etc.).
• Damage caused by operating the unit in a known environment with interference with other wireless devices (i.e. transmitter, video-link, Wi-Fi signals, etc.).
• Damage caused by operating the unit with a weight greater than safe takeoff weight.
• Damage caused by forced flight when components have been aged or damaged.
• Damage caused by reliability or compatibility issues when using unauthenticated third-party parts.
• Damage caused by operating the unit with a low charged or defective battery.
  

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[size=14.6667px]It is shameful that DJI try to take any responsibility for their product. If there is a clause about using third party app please let me know.  
[size=14.6667px]I could not find anything on Litchi site as well.

[size=14.6667px]Honestly I don't believe for a second that Litchi is responsible for fly-away but if DJI will  void warranty such a information should be presented to buyers of Litchi App as well as on the DJI warranty page.

I asked this question here is what I got from the admin. folks on the forum.


My forum inquiry

If it's not dji or done by DJI it's said to void your warranty

There's no point in contacting litchi pbecause Dji makes the rules

There are two issues here. One  There is nowhere to be found about voiding warranty.  On contrary DJI states in FAQ

From DJI: Simply flying a DJI aircraft using a third party app does not void the warranty. However, if the pilot crashes or causes damage that is not due to mechanical failure, then it’s their responsibility to cover at least some if not all of the estimated repair cost.

Above statement is quiet different from one I've got in email today.

This will not be a warranty repair unfortunately, a 3rd party app was used during this flight, which is not covered under warranty.

I have following problems with that:
- repairing will not fix fly-away issue which by itself is a safety hazard.
- if using Litchi is treated is  voiding warranty it should be posted everywhere so customers like me be aware of that.
- DJI is refusing checking data from the aircraft I've send them
- DJI approach to solve issue is mind bugging.  

I've been flying drones since beginning of P3P.  To me - $200.00 for repairs is more principle issue than monetary compensation for damages.  I have no problem paying that. I would like to make sure that DJI acknowledge and posts clearly that USING  3rd party App VOIDS WARRANTY so others are aware and check logs from aircraft I've send them, to find out where problem of fly-away  resulted from.

Thats it.

niktnowy Posted at 2016-9-1 19:08
There are two issues here. One  There is nowhere to be found about voiding warranty.  On contrary DJ ...

what did cause the crash ??????

Hi, niktnowy,I'll help to double check your case.If I get any update,I'll let you know.

Grizz 1 Posted at 2016-9-1 22:35
what did cause the crash ??????

Hey. I described incident in this post

http://forum.dji.com/forum.php?m ... mp;extra=#pid484952

P4 flew backwards into the tree from hovering on around 4'.  I don't know what caused that.  I didnt move sticks.

DJI Mindy Posted at 2016-9-2 04:56
Hi, niktnowy,I'll help to double check your case.If I get any update,I'll let you know.

Thanks a lot. I dont mind paying. Just want to make sure there is no more problems with fly aways; which is most of my concern. Without reading data from aircraft or one I've send nobody will benefit from this.  Fixing what was physically damaged without finding a reason of malfunction is in my point senseless invitation for  accidents in the future that might result in being more expensive.
Thanks again

I believe this is a fair policy.

DJI has no control over what 3rd party software will do to their systems or if compatibility issues might arise.

Use of 3rd party applications should be at the users own risk and liability.

I suppose this could also be applied to running the go app on an android device that is not on the compatability list.

What is the damage or malfunction of your Phantom? What needs to be repaired?

rodger Posted at 2016-9-2 17:45
What is the damage or malfunction of your Phantom? What needs to be repaired?

Phantom 4 Roll motor       
Phantom4 right landing gear component       
Phantom 4 gimbal Yaw-shaft & Roll-shaft ESC board       
Phantom 4 Roll-shaft rear cover       
Phantom 4 Roll-shaft bracket       
Phantom4 left landing gear component
Service Charge       

All together $188.00

Not that bad but damages were caused by fly away from hovering. When they fix damages problem of fly away will still exists. DJI service did not check data from craft assuming it was caused by third party app

That is not right. I have a problem with my Phantom where I change to ATTI is takes off like a rocket and very difficult to control. Don't know why they are giving you a hard time if you admit to the crash.

Actually it will be a case by case scenario.

rodger Posted at 2016-9-2 23:07
That is not right. I have a problem with my Phantom where I change to ATTI is takes off like a rocke ...

I did not admit to the crash. I have it on video and plenty witnesses.  It flew away by itself and crashed into the tree

niktnowy Posted at 2016-9-3 13:03
I did not admit to the crash. I have it on video and plenty witnesses.  It flew away by itself and ...

What is your email and I'd like to take a look at the flight.
Also, provide the date, flight distance, flight time, and max altitude and I can easily find it.

billwish76 Posted at 2016-9-2 05:46
If it's not dji or done by DJI it's said to void your warranty

If it's determined to be caused by DJI product malfunction, like a propeller worn out and the drone crashed, or the battery died, the DJI would still cover it.

But in some other cases things may get more complicated, like an alleged "flyaway" of a drone when using a 3rd party app, sometimes the flight log is different from those made by DJI Go and makes it difficult for DJI technitian to determine the cause of an accident.

DJI release the SDK I believe, and Litchi use this in their software. Perhaps Litchi should be storing logs in a format DJI can use - is that Litchis' issue, or is DJI not providing enough info so they can do this? If the logs are present then surely it will be easier to prove who's to blame. There are an almost infinite number of parameters that can lead towards a crash or a flyaway.

DJI-Thor Posted at 2016-9-3 04:17
If it's determined to be caused by DJI product malfunction, like a propeller worn out and the drone ...

I was able to download dat files from aircraft and I provided this info to DJI tech. I also send them entire aircraft so they could check  that themselves.

DJI-Ken Posted at 2016-9-3 01:10
What is your email and I'd like to take a look at the flight.
Also, provide the date, flight dista ...

jerrydabrowski@rcn.com  

Accident Data: 08/14/2016
RMA case number is CAS-231263-T1Z8H9

Thanks for your help. I can email you everything I have

Thanks again

niktnowy Posted at 2016-9-3 01:03
I did not admit to the crash. I have it on video and plenty witnesses.  It flew away by itself and ...

Send the log and update files to DJI. Try Healthy Drones as well. They should be able to tell you what happened.

rodger Posted at 2016-9-4 10:01
Send the log and update files to DJI. Try Healthy Drones as well. They should be able to tell you  ...

I've send them everything. DJI doesn't give a flying duck about reading them,  In todays email

Repair Administrator (DJI)
Sep 6, 23:10 HKT
The screenshot I sent is from http://www.dji.com/service/policy. It specifically talks about damage caused by flights where third party parts are used under L. I don't know if an app can be considered a part, that would be a question for legal. However; there is an entire section in the manual devoted to downloading and using our Go app, so not using it would certainly fall under F., damage caused by flights which did not follow the manual recommendations.
The decision will not change unfortunately, damage caused while using a 3rd party app is not covered under the warranty. The manual recommends downloading the DJI Go app to use the Phantom, so this is where it would be explained that it's not covered.

They would read their .dat file if I wouldnt tell them  about me using Litchi.   This was more important that few $$ for repairs.  I don't want to experience fly-away.  Even with DJI Go App this aircraft was behaving strange.
The way DJI is treating their customers reminds me of a clerk at motor-vehicle driver licence center. They just don't give a crap.  
End of the story

DJI-Thor Posted at 2016-9-3 18:17
If it's determined to be caused by DJI product malfunction, like a propeller worn out and the drone ...

'But in some other cases things may get more complicated, like an alleged "flyaway" of a drone when using a 3rd party app, sometimes the flight log is different from those made by DJI Go and makes it difficult for DJI technitian to determine the cause of an accident. '

The flight log aboard the aircraft would be written under the firmware control of the aircraft, so it is done by a piece of DJI software, it is not written by Litchi software. So why is there an issue with being able to read that and determine the cause of the issue?

There is so much that can wrong with a 3rd party app - in some ways it would be crazy for DJI to warrant these! There is a specific reason DJI doesn't build in a LOT of flight modes....and that reason is that, when these are used, a lot of pilots crash.

Litchi is fairly stable. I use it myself. BUT, it's basic common sense that complicated software which allows the craft to be flown in MANY ways that a stock machine cannot - will cause more problems.

For example, all manuals and warranties say to operate under existing laws and regulations. That means LOS (line of slight) or maybe 1KM. So, a dude buys litch and flies 4 miles away using waypoint - and loses his machine. Should DJI cover this?

I understand about logs but these not the NTSB and the time and energy it would take to perfectly examine each and every incident would make it impossible.

An easy solution is this. Neary Aerial sells very inexpensive crash insurance.....which may cover litchi and 3rd party apps. Check in with them (I'm not talking to the OP but to others who may want to use 3rd party apps.).

As far as "flyaways" I think it is already proven that these are extremely rare events with the stock setup. Not to say never - in the end these are not military grade (and even military grade have problems!)...but there is not a more reliable consumer machine on the market, so that is all you have to compare against.

If one is really worried about flyaways (and I have 3+ years and 4 Phantoms and never a burp), then get extra insurance AND a Trackimo (GPS tracker) and be very conservative in piloting.

Geebax Posted at 2016-9-7 08:14
'But in some other cases things may get more complicated, like an alleged "flyaway" of a drone when ...

Because if the drone "flyaway", it normally means the customer couldn't retrieve it, so DJI support can't retrieve the hidden SD card in the drone body that contains onboard flight log. In this kind of case, DJI can only rely on the flight log on the device stored by DJI GO or Litchi, ( a briefer version of the onboard flight log).  But sometimes DJI Support isn't able to interpret the one logged by Litchi and this is where things get complicated. I do feel very sorry for OP.

DJI-Thor Posted at 2016-9-7 12:32
Because if the drone "flyaway", it normally means the customer couldn't retrieve it, so DJI support ...

But if it did not fly away, and the logs are able to be recovered from the aircraft, then why put a blanket ban on 3rd. party aps? If DJI does not trust those 3rd. part apps to control the aircraft, why publish the SDK in the first place?

Geebax Posted at 2016-9-6 23:30
But if it did not fly away, and the logs are able to be recovered from the aircraft, then why put  ...

DJI doesn't put a blanket ban on 3rd party apps. Like I said, if the logs recovered from the aircraft does indicate it's a product failure, like a failed rotor, died battery, propeller throw off, etc, DJI does (normally) cover it, at its discretion. In other cases, things get more complicated and have to be made on a case-by-case bases.   

DJI-Thor Posted at 2016-9-7 13:51
DJI doesn't put a blanket ban on 3rd party apps. Like I said, if the logs recovered from the aircr ...

Fine, then why does DJI reply to a customer using this phraseology:

'Repairs cannot begin until the invoice is paid. This will not be a warranty repair unfortunately, a 3rd party app was used during this flight, which is not covered under warranty.'

This suggests that the person replying to the customer is under the impression that simply because a 3rd. part app was used, the warranty is not valid. There is no suggestion that the case will be examined on its merits.

Geebax Posted at 2016-9-7 12:46
Fine, then why does DJI reply to a customer using this phraseology:

'Repairs cannot begin until th ...

Yes, it's the official statement, that's why I said DJI repairs the drone at its discretion in 3rd party app related incidents and makes case-by-case decisions. If you read the T&C of the warranty here http://www.dji.com/service/policy, it also says the customer needs to pay the shipping for warranty repair, while in reality we know most cases DJI pays for the shipping.

What I'm trying to say is that DJI does try to strike a balance involving 3rd party apps and still takes care of customers. Current situations for 3rd party apps is like rooting your Android phone or overclocking your CPU, manufacturers gives you that option, but users take the risks themselves.  

DJI-Thor Posted at 2016-9-7 17:07
Yes, it's the official statement, that's why I said DJI repairs the drone at its discretion in 3rd ...

I actually believe DJI is quite generous in dealing with most 'warranty' claims, but the solution to this problem is to re-work the SDK to include a mandatory flight log recorder, so that the proper logs are kept in both the aircraft and the RC unit.

I would also like DJI to share the encryption information with Phantomhelp so we can have an independant viewer of flight logs.

niktnowy Posted at 2016-9-6 20:09
I've send them everything. DJI doesn't give a flying duck about reading them,  In todays email

Motor Vehicle Dept. attitude, are you from Rhode Island like I am
Try Healthy Drones. Best that you figure out what happened to satisfy yourself.
I am having problems with my P4 in that it has a mind of its own in ATTI and I am afraid of a fly away as well. Everything was fine until I did an IMU Cal. The DJI request is to fly it in 3 different locations and send the Log and Update Files. I'll do it as requested but, I know there is something wrong. The other thing is that IMU #2's scale is jumping all over the place even though it states successful update.

rodger Posted at 2016-9-7 22:10
Motor Vehicle Dept. attitude, are you from Rhode Island like I am
Try Healthy Drones. Be ...

"Try Healthy Drones. Best that you figure out what happened to satisfy yourself."

Good luck working out anything helpful from the brief summary that HD gives.

labroides@yahoo Posted at 2016-9-7 08:28
"Try Healthy Drones. Best that you figure out what happened to satisfy yourself."

Good luck worki ...

Please don't aggravate me with your comments. Ian not interested. Grab your two points at someone else's expense.