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Firmware and Software issues
2058 31 2017-4-17
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MikeQView
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United Kingdom
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DJI,   PLEASE READ !  I and many many others love your hardware, All the drones are what appears to be good quality, and cleverly thought out machines.  but are becoming more and more frustrated and annoyed because you are building VERY poor and unreliable/unstable software and Firmware,   at the point you can make this reliable, i am convinced you will increase your sales to the next level !   there are many people, me included who will not buy another DJI product until you fix the way you make software and firmware !    i already own a Mavic , a Phantom and an inspire 1.    i  nearly bought an inspire 2 ( But didnt)  and was considering your new spark and M200 at release,   but WILL NOT BUY ANOTHER DJI product until you get the firmware and software under control,  it is not acceptable to have poor or unreliable/unstable control of a flying machine.  remember you are a large company with ONLY about 50 products,  so keeping track of this vital aspect is paramount.

DJI - here are some of  the issues that need to be resolved:-

1) Firmware loading stability as of 2017 needs to be without issue, it is the base foundation .
2) ALL Older Versions of all software and firmware ought to be available to your customers, Unless of course that version was dangerous in any way .
3) A Live Software/firmware control list ought to be available stating compatibilty recommendations (eg , which version of "GO" ought to be used with which Firmwares, etc) and which ones shouldnt !
4) Firmwares should be built and tested for the model they are being loaded on,  and as there is hardware redundancy built into many craft now so should be the software/firmwares that are controlling it.
5)  nothing should be placed into SW/FW that will force a failure ( other than CSC ) so if  any failures do occur the least priority items are shutdown first, leaving P mode control or a total manual ATTI mode available and a streamed video along with a RTH,  all other items should shutdown before these !  safety first ( your customers will appreciate it later)
6) If You continue to cost save and use Android or Ios tablets to share control of the craft, then the APP really should take control of the device its working on and be stable, this is one area where there is no excuse, the APP MUST be stable.
7) Prioritise and action fixes for your SW/FW issues,  your company is hinged on getting this right.
8) DONT ACCEPT FAILURE !   work through it and your customers will be proud to follow and support.
9) TELL EVERY ONE ABOUT IT !   Communication and your people are the only true assets you have,  You guys need to stand up and put some threads on here yourself, stating what you want to do, and how your going to do it !  and what your going to do it with !
10) Make a start here by increasing your customer support ranking, by telling your customers how to get the very best out of the software and firmware thats here now,  then tell your customers how you want to make it even better !
11) Remember for every customer who take time to write about their issue, there will be another 30 - 50 customers  who wont write a thing, but walk away from your products.

        DJI -KEN , Natalia, Mindy  please feed this back to the decision makers at DJI,   i dont apologise for what i have written,  only because i can see what DJI could be,  if the effort was allocated,  IF  SW/FW issues were driven out, i believe sales would climb by 30% or possibly more.   ok , if you dont need 30% extra sales, disregard everything written here, put your heads back in the sand, pretend it never happened and have a great day !

DJI controlling team,   please feel totally free to copy this thread to the management team, then delete it from here, as i cant find anywhere i can get this information to you other than putting it on this forum, and for that i am sorry.

2017-4-17
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dronist
First Officer
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United States
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I feel your pain but I had P3, P4, P4P, P4P+, OSMO and MAVIC PRO with no issues in SF,FW or hardware. Am I lucky??? Maybe....or Maybe NOT!!!
2017-4-17
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Bintryin
lvl.3
Flight distance : 164406 ft
Australia
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Here here Well said
2017-4-17
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DroneReaper
New
Australia
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Agreed.
If programming / Firmware, which only comes from DJI,, is faulty and causes injury / damage, there could be legal issues.
2017-4-17
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fans06b77ccc
lvl.3
Flight distance : 1905381 ft
United States
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Well said! Unfortunately, DJI won't change anything so long as there are waiting lists for many of their products. Sooner or later, their inability to see things through the eyes of their customers will catch up with them.....unless they change their current focus. They really could be so much more, and are holding themselves back. Excellent engineers but poor managment, no doubt driven by quantity and not quality, with no true vision for long term goals and customer satisfaction. DJI managment needs to spend time reading their own forum and doing something about problems their lack of oversite, and shortsighted views have caused.
Mods, how are consumers to communicate the many concerns we have to managment to hopefully make a Difference?  
2017-4-17
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Tealk
lvl.4
Flight distance : 544222 ft
Romania
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goooood job!!! @MikeQView     ...i support u for all 11 points ..and everything it`s thrue , my vote is YES, DJI do your job the right way and through, we like your product, but if you do not update it properly and without test them, you will lose people daily 20..30..

sorry for my english but i think You will understand
2017-4-17
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blunt_blunt
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Australia
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Tip: the author has been banned or deleted automatically shield
2017-4-17
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DJI Mindy
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We listen to all the feedback we get from the community.
I have forwarded this to our management and we really appreciate that.
We're constantly working to improve the experience for everyone.
2017-4-17
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fans95824758
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Hi, I am with you. I own a Mavic, Phantom 4, Inspire 1 and Osmo. All of them work well, until yesterday that I had a problem with a lost connection after having upgraded my Mavic to the last version .600. I lost connection, which can be normal, if not were that the screen of the rc began to switch on and off, this is not so normal. All after a wonderful update which has caused my machine not to be realiabe. Software updates are very important and DJI should do things well in this aspect.
2017-4-17
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MikeQView
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United Kingdom
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DJI Mindy Posted at 2017-4-17 22:51
We listen to all the feedback we get from the community.
I have forwarded this to our management and we really appreciate that.
We're constantly working to improve the experience for everyone.

Mindy, thank you so much, i and many others love the brand and the hardware products, it just needs some TLC in the programming department, i fully understand how difficult it can be, to get programs to work reliably, but i view this as paramount for a flying machine of any type.
2017-4-18
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fans2783c9e0
lvl.1
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Malta
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fans95824758 Posted at 2017-4-17 23:41
Hi, I am with you. I own a Mavic, Phantom 4, Inspire 1 and Osmo. All of them work well, until yesterday that I had a problem with a lost connection after having upgraded my Mavic to the last version .600. I lost connection, which can be normal, if not were that the screen of the rc began to switch on and off, this is not so normal. All after a wonderful update which has caused my machine not to be realiabe. Software updates are very important and DJI should do things well in this aspect.

My Mavic Pro went down into the sea after updating the firmware and started drifting away. The RC would not respond. I have 2 of my friends that crashed their drone due to the latest firmware. I have also seen a lot of complaints in other forums arguing about the same issue. I think that the last firmware has a bug error that needs to be fixed.
2017-4-18
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fansfb2d38d3
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Good points. Thankyou. I've just had 3 days of trying to rectify a firmware update that stalled at 74%.  I tried all the "fixes" I could find in forums. Today I fired up an old slow spare computer and tried again. It worked. So two different cell phones, 2 laptops, 1 high end desktop. All failed previously. Wereas my other Mavic upgraded 1st time in about 20min.
2017-4-18
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fans06b77ccc
lvl.3
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United States
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Mindy,

You and the other mods are the shining gems of DJI. As far as we can tell, you all are the only ones that listen and advocate for the customer. Hopefully that will change to include upper managment.
Everyone will benifit if managment truley works toward positive change and minimizes the lip service on how they are trying to make things better for the customer. The problems that are a result of hurried and untested firmware releases are inexcusable, especially on a device that flys and can cause harm to others.  Many governing bodies have already imposed extreme regulations and restrictions concerning the operation of drones. Problems such as those listed on this and other forums that relate to dependability will no doubt make some further question the safety of drones (understandably), and lead to yet further tightening of regulations (read decreased profits) , if something is not done soon to curb these issues. Please focus on quality and not quantity!

Thanks!
2017-4-18
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Eagle_Eye
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United States
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dronist Posted at 2017-4-17 18:17
I feel your pain but I had P3, P4, P4P, P4P+, OSMO and MAVIC PRO with no issues in SF,FW or hardware. Am I lucky??? Maybe....or Maybe NOT!!!

GOOD FOR YOU!
BUT, there are a lot of folks out there that are not lucky as you whose getting frustrated and will surely walk away from this product if DJI don't clean their act.


WELL SAID 1st OP!
2017-4-18
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Landbo
Second Officer
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Denmark
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Strangely with the new firmware / DJIGO4. Have once deleted all trips in my log because it showed I had flown over 100 meters higher than it is allowed here in Denmark. Now counting DJI wrong again when my highest flight altitude suddenly become 1,052 meters. It is 952 meters higher than I've ever flown, as well as entire 552 meters higher than the DJI has set as Mavic highest flight altitude !!!

DJI, what and do. Should I delete the entire log again or .............. ???????????

Should any be in doubt, I fully agree with MikeQView's words.
Leif.   

EDIT: Forgotten and inform that DJIGO4 runs under Android 6.1 on a Medion tablet (OEM Lenovo)


2017-4-18
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WolfgangStiller
Second Officer
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Landbo Posted at 2017-4-18 05:43
Strangely with the new firmware / DJIGO4. Have once deleted all trips in my log because it showed I had flown over 100 meters higher than it is allowed here in Denmark. Now counting DJI wrong again when my highest flight altitude suddenly become 1,052 meters. It is 952 meters higher than I've ever flown, as well as entire 552 meters higher than the DJI has set as Mavic highest flight altitude !!!

DJI, what and do. Should I delete the entire log again or .............. ???????????

My phone logs and data remain. Could you perhaps have accidentally clicked on clear logs after a sync?
2017-4-18
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DesertDave
lvl.3
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United States
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Spot on Mike. DJI is evidently suffering the growing pains of a young company. The maxed out their existing staff capabilities and have rushed to "put bandaids" on the problems that get the most attention.  When you read the other posts, you see a common thread. Software issues, initial quality issues and a lot of warranty problems returned to owner without resolving the problem. After 35 years in supplier automotive quality, I can tell you the problem is management, not design. They won't want to hear it and will probably blame the underlings, but they aren't owning up to fixing the root causes. I hope they do, I have a lot invested in UAV's and hate to think it is wasted.
2017-4-18
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Landbo
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WolfgangStiller Posted at 2017-4-18 06:40
My phone logs and data remain. Could you perhaps have accidentally clicked on clear logs after a sync?

Deleted my log on purpose the first time because my max altitude was more than doubled. Now max altitude suddenly after my last flight 10 times higher than the maximum height I've ever flown in, which is 100 meters. Has 14 flights in my log right now.

Regards Leif
2017-4-18
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M4BMW
Second Officer
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In my opinion if you update a firmware version then you should take your mavic to a small open area and do some intial testing to make sure everything is stable. Not sure if I would take it out to sea or any other risky environment without a small test first.
2017-4-18
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WolfgangStiller
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Landbo Posted at 2017-4-18 08:06
Deleted my log on purpose the first time because my max altitude was more than doubled. Now max altitude suddenly after my last flight 10 times higher than the maximum height I've ever flown in, which is 100 meters. Has 14 flights in my log right now.

Regards Leif

I have had the same issue. The max alt seems to be based on the barometric reading which can be way off. I had a max of over 15,000 feet MSL but flew only a bit over 14,100.
2017-4-18
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WolfgangStiller
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M4BMW Posted at 2017-4-18 08:11
In my opinion if you update a firmware version then you should take your mavic to a small open area and do some intial testing to make sure everything is stable. Not sure if I would take it out to sea or any other risky environment without a small test first.

That's good advice.
2017-4-18
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PizzaFiend
lvl.3
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Landbo Posted at 2017-4-18 05:43
Strangely with the new firmware / DJIGO4. Have once deleted all trips in my log because it showed I had flown over 100 meters higher than it is allowed here in Denmark. Now counting DJI wrong again when my highest flight altitude suddenly become 1,052 meters. It is 952 meters higher than I've ever flown, as well as entire 552 meters higher than the DJI has set as Mavic highest flight altitude !!!

DJI, what and do. Should I delete the entire log again or .............. ???????????

Are you talking about the MAX TAKEOFF ALTITUDE in the Flight Record? That is different than flight altitude (how high you've flown above ground level). Rather it is the altitude of the ground level from which you took off.
2017-4-18
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Landbo
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WolfgangStiller Posted at 2017-4-18 08:24
I have had the same issue. The max alt seems to be based on the barometric reading which can be way off. I had a max of over 15,000 feet MSL but flew only a bit over 14,100.

Sorry but do not know the meaning of the abbreviation "MSL".

Mavic's altitude is calculated relative after the current pressure at take off. Pressure should  change after these formulas: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barometric_formula

Regards Leif.
2017-4-18
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Landbo
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PizzaFiend Posted at 2017-4-18 08:40
Are you talking about the MAX TAKEOFF ALTITUDE in the Flight Record? That is different than flight altitude (how high you've flown above ground level). Rather it is the altitude of the ground level from which you took off.

No, talking about the height that stands after text "TOP ALTITUDE" in the log (left side). "TOP ALTITUDE" is equal to the max flight altitude above ground level (my take-off point).

Regards Leif.
2017-4-18
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Flybee
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Germany
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Mike, I agree with you here to 100%.

I'm more concerned from egoistic reasons. I like the stuff this company do, but i'm also worried about how fast things change, I want my "investment" to feel safe and good. We make our decisions based on emotions, not logic, remember that. People working in this company and persons in this forum says that there is so fantastic products which I agree upon, but the success of this kind of product is also based on the software that's resides in this kind of product. The world is moving in a rapidly high speed and if you are stucked in that you are "doing so great" stuff and don't listen to customers and have things that work, well then I think you will wake up one morning and look for where you customers went. The worst thing that can happen to you is to be #1 since every one else is chasing you.  

If you look back at history, there are small things that makes a difference, what would have happened if the karma did't fell from the sky back then late 2016?

And for the Mod's here, I can only agree that they are doing a great job.

Don't let our emotions fade away, DJI
2017-4-18
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kwi66
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Austria
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I would like to point out one topic:
Make existing features reliable in firmware and Go App!

Maybe by publishing two development lines, like other software providers do, who are publishing experimental versions, which they officially declare as "beta".
You could satisfy both groups of customers.
Those who love to "test new versions in open areas" and want to have every new feature at once, would appreciate the "beta" line.
On the other hand, customers like me, who prefer not to fear loss of their drone on each update, could stay on the "official release" line, which, of course provides  updates less often, but one could be sure, that the software provided was extensively tested BEFORE release.

And I totally agree that DJI has great technicians (proven by outstanding hardware), but there is much room left for improvement on software developers side.... :-)

2017-4-18
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Bintryin
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kwi66 Posted at 2017-4-18 12:57
I would like to point out one topic:
Make existing features reliable in firmware and Go App!

That is A great Idea..
2017-4-18
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MikeQView
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    I am fortunate enough to have worked at higher management level in the the three "Killer" work environments, for the last 30+ years,    construction, Aeronautics and Food,  during these roles i carried the production manger and the quality Assurance badge at the same time,   so the decision to "Produce" or "Stop" lay firmly with me !  so i can really "feel" what DJI is starting to feel here,  each time i had issues come to the surface,  it was vital to communicate, Firstly the issue with the team, then the issue with the upper management,    it was vital to turn the issue around, by using CI type tools  ( continuous improvement)  singularly or combined to abstract the issue, place a fix or series of fixes on it ,  then monitor it, and fix it again if required, later use that as a learning tool so that it doesnt happen again (vital) Then communicate it again,  with feedback both down to the teams at the work place and up through the management layers,   lastly look around sideways to see where else the same improvement can be used, then follow the process with KPI's and stats.  the key element is so that the issue doesnt return, and if it is going to happen, at least your stats, monitors and KPI's told you it was going to happen !   with the ultimate goal of "ZERO Failures"     what all this is leading to, is this new company DJI is going to have to embrace these systems or similar systems very soon or in a different way to take back control of the runaway software/firmware builders before it hurts their pocket !       to put it another way,  its great to teach your kids to ride a push bike,  but dont do it on a steep icy road near a cliff ! or your family may not be so big as you thought it was !
2017-4-18
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MikeQView
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Flybee Posted at 2017-4-18 09:10
Mike, I agree with you here to 100%.

I'm more concerned from egoistic reasons. I like the stuff this company do, but i'm also worried about how fast things change, I want my "investment" to feel safe and good. We make our decisions based on emotions, not logic, remember that. People working in this company and persons in this forum says that there is so fantastic products which I agree upon, but the success of this kind of product is also based on the software that's resides in this kind of product. The world is moving in a rapidly high speed and if you are stucked in that you are "doing so great" stuff and don't listen to customers and have things that work, well then I think you will wake up one morning and look for where you customers went. The worst thing that can happen to you is to be #1 since every one else is chasing you.  

Hey Flybee, i agree also,  But there are only two things that wont change!   Paying taxes and Death.  everything thing else changes, and has to change,  and at a rate slightly ahead or slightly behind pro rata with the driving force.   so us guys who want the latest drone tech are driving DJI to make the next best thing,    Where DJI have to be really clever is to to use the correct forsight to ensure the quality is comensurate with the customers expectation !    as for being #1  , well,  i was lucky enough to work for three companies who where #1 in their field,  and one thing i do know is they were nearly twice as busy as the #2 and #3 companies,  due to the fact that they had to look much further forward,  be more conscious of failure, and be more aware of success,  and of course work out your own timing of change.     But it was so worth it.
2017-4-18
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Mavico
lvl.2
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Germany
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DJI, the Mavic is my first product from you and I have lots of fun. But I see more and more that is not really reliable from firmware perspective.

1. Kaizen
2. You can not check quality, you have to produce it

Best Regards
Boern
2017-4-18
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WolfgangStiller
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United States
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Landbo Posted at 2017-4-18 08:50
Sorry but do not know the meaning of the abbreviation "MSL".

Mavic's altitude is calculated relative after the current pressure at take off. Pressure should  change after these formulas: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barometric_formula

MSL means altitude above Mean Sea Level.  (Generally as opposed to altitude above ground level or take off elevation)
2017-4-19
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Landbo
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WolfgangStiller Posted at 2017-4-19 05:46
MSL means altitude above Mean Sea Level.  (Generally as opposed to altitude above ground level or take off elevation)

Yes ok, tnx. It can easily become confusing with all the abbreviations.  

Regards Leif ..
2017-4-19
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