Digital Pixelation on Phantom 4
2558 20 2017-7-11
Uploading and Loding Picture ...(0/1)
o(^-^)o
fans3e97c75a
lvl.1
United States
Offline

I had the digital pixelation issue caused by the moton of the camera on the gimbal of my Phantom 4. See screengrabs attached showing 2 frames where in one you see the digital artifacts and then the clean frame after it stops.

Originally I was concerned of this issue, spoke to the service repair, and told my unit had an issue and to send it in. I was charged over $200 to get my unit 'fixed'. I then waited, received my unit back, checked it out and found that the original issue I had was still happeneing to the new drone sent as a replacement (since it wasn't fixed)Ultimately I went through the process again with DJI service, experienced the long service department back and forth. Received back another new Phantom 4 that also had the same issue going on with the digital pixelation when doing the specific motion of the camera / gimbal.  
I also experienced this same problem on a Mavic Pro I had to buy in between not having the Phantom 4 while being serviced the first time. (It was purchased cause I had committed to shooting some aerial video and the repair was taking far longer than estimated)

Overall DJI makes some great products that shoot incredible drone video and photo.
Unfortunately dealing with DJI service department has been one of the worst expereiences in dealing with any service department.
I have been threated to pay more for additional assessments even though the first one was incorrectly assessed, lied to about my unit being misplaced when moving buildings yet the original box was returned, told that my first unit was just repaired yet different serial numbers and other marks prove otherwise, as well as hung up on multiple times after long waits spending over an hour on the phone a day.

Since emails and phone calls have continued to go unanswered, I am left being out over $200 on an incorrect repair assessment and can only resort to posting my bad experience of all of this on the DJI forum in hopes that this actually gets addressed.


DJI_0001_DigitalArtifact_3.jpg
DJI_0001_CLEAN.jpg
2017-7-11
Use props
fansa84fe8a4
Second Officer
Flight distance : 3 ft
United States
Offline

Not clear as to what you mean by "Motion of the camera on the gimbal."  Are you shooting stills and processing the DNG files in post software, or shooting stills while flying which is never a good idea, and even worse if you are shooting stills while the video is recording leading to an even more compressed and pixelated mess as it is a smaller portion yet than coming off a still camera shot.

Shoot your stills while hovering and not yawing about while shooting.  If they are good when parked in hover, then you've figured out you cannot shoot on the fly and expect any quality.  If you want some help in post with noisy files, then there is software that can help like Topaz Denoise 6 plug-in, etc. for Photoshop and their standalone editing software.

Your camera appears to be shooting clean when not moving so I'd rule it more to your aerial technique or post-processing work.
2017-7-11
Use props
Cian McLiam
lvl.3
Flight distance : 366496 ft
Ireland
Offline

The photos show posterisation and compression effects usually caused by using a very low quality jpg setting or exporting the preview file that is stored in the app rather than the high quality photos on the SD card. I have no idea what you mean by gimbal camera motion, both photos show no movement in between?
2017-7-11
Use props
fans3e97c75a
lvl.1
United States
Offline

Cian + other person,
Thanks for the input. Here's some additional info about my issues.

Motion of Camera on Gimbal / Tilt Movement = Means the 90 degree movement/rotation on the tilt axis the camera moves via the gimbal.
When the gimbal is not moving the camera, the pixelation is not present.
Only when camera is moving on the Tilt axis of the gimbal does this pixelation happen.

The stills provided as evidence of the issue are exported frames from UHD 4K @ 24fps video files that were recorded to the SD Card (SD card speed capable of recording Full 4K video files) .
The pixelated frame is the last frame of the pixelation caused by the motion of the gimbal and then the Clean frame is the following frame where there is no pixelation as the gimbal has stopped moving.
DJI's chat tech service limits file attachments to 5mbs, which is not ideal when they make a product that shoots high res 4K video files.
The stills were selected to show the difference in 2 consecutive frames. The duration of the movement also illustrates this, but equals 48 frames over the 2 second move. I have offered dropbox, google drive, and we transfer options to send DJI tech support my source files but the offer never has never been accepted.

Using the photo option, even when flying around, produces some beautiful shots, so not related to the photo option of the camera.
I have had 3x Phantom 4s and 1 Mavic Pro and all have had the exact same consistent issue. And examples showing the same issue throughout.

I have done all diagnostics I can think of and were recommended - Used different SD cards all capable of read/write speeds to record/play back Full 4K @ 24fps files, formatted SD cards via DJI app, used different batteries, factory reset drone, all up to date Firmware upgrades, Shot in proper camera settings - Low ISO in proper lighting to avoid any type of noise due to poor lighting, etc.

This is a common issue people have reported on this forum and the internet. Just search DJI Phantom pixelation and loads of problems show up.
Here are some threads from this site alone:
http://forum.dji.com/forum.php?m ... D368%26typeid%3D368
http://forum.dji.com/thread-48783-1-1.html
2017-7-11
Use props
Geebax
Captain
Australia
Offline

fans3e97c75a Posted at 2017-7-11 16:50
Cian + other person,
Thanks for the input. Here's some additional info about my issues.

What you are looking at is the perfectly normal result of MPEG encoding. MPEG works on the basis of what the eye cannot see is not worth worrying about, so it does not waste effort or file space coding it. MPEG encoded files are not intended to be examined frame by frame, in fact strictly speaking, MPEG should not be used for this type of video photography, but as video resolution increases, MPEG becomes the only way to keep the file sizes manageable.

'This is a common issue people have reported on this forum and the internet. Just search DJI Phantom pixelation and loads of problems show up.'

Yes, and those people have no idea how MPEG coding works or why it is employed. It does not however mean there is a problem or a fault. And the fact that DJI Support told you it was a camera problem and to send it in for repair means nothing, those support people do not have a clue, and 'send it back' is a normal response for them.




2017-7-11
Use props
DJI Mindy
Administrator
Flight distance : 7 ft
  • >>>
Offline

We understand how you feel and apologize for the unpleasant experience with our product and customer service.
Could you happen to leave me with the previous case number? And upload several original pictures to Dropbox or Google driver? I will feedback your concern to our engineer for analysis, thank you in advance.
2017-7-12
Use props
fans3e97c75a
lvl.1
United States
Offline

Geebax Posted at 2017-7-11 17:00
What you are looking at is the perfectly normal result of MPEG encoding. MPEG works on the basis of what the eye cannot see is not worth worrying about, so it does not waste effort or file space coding it. MPEG encoded files are not intended to be examined frame by frame, in fact strictly speaking, MPEG should not be used for this type of video photography, but as video resolution increases, MPEG becomes the only way to keep the file sizes manageable.

'This is a common issue people have reported on this forum and the internet. Just search DJI Phantom pixelation and loads of problems show up.'

I've used both the mp4 file recording option and the mov file recording option.
For the source file the examples are from, it was with a mov file.
The digital pixelation IS very noticeable via the human eye when watching the footage.
And the issue happens when the gimbal rotates the camera on the tilt axis.
There is no 'MPEG compression artifacts' from any other movements by the drone.
It is something to worry about since the pixelation ruins shots.
The frame by frame examples were to show that it is not always happening.
2017-7-12
Use props
fans3e97c75a
lvl.1
United States
Offline

DJI Mindy Posted at 2017-7-12 00:52
We understand how you feel and apologize for the unpleasant experience with our product and customer service.
Could you happen to leave me with the previous case number? And upload several original pictures to Dropbox or Google driver? I will feedback your concern to our engineer for analysis, thank you in advance.

Mindy,

The recent case number is
CAS-713065-R0X4W6

Link to most recent test file from Phantom 4 on 07.08.17:
https://we.tl/II6JrYkhfr
Link will be active for 7 days as per the WeTransfer policy. File is approx 176mbs.
It's an mov video file showing the movement of the camera on the gimbal multiple times.
This is the 3rd Phantom 4 I have had this issue with. I also have examples from my Mavic Pro as well.
I have done other tests by having the 3D noise reduction both on and off to see if that had some effect. It didn't make a difference.
2017-7-12
Use props
Geebax
Captain
Australia
Offline

fans3e97c75a Posted at 2017-7-12 05:13
I've used both the mp4 file recording option and the mov file recording option.
For the source file the examples are from, it was with a mov file.
The digital pixelation IS very noticeable via the human eye when watching the footage.

'I've used both the mp4 file recording option and the mov file recording option.
For the source file the examples are from, it was with a mov file.'


MOV and MP$ are exactly the same coding, H264, the only difference is the container. As usual, Apple decided it wanted a different container to everyone else.  

'The digital pixelation IS very noticeable via the human eye when watching the footage.
And the issue happens when the gimbal rotates the camera on the tilt axis.'

Well, it is not a perfect format, and the bit rate is not high enough to obtain better resultrs, but then again, if you are shooting at 100 Mb/s, then not many other cameras will do any better at that rate. Certainly not at this price point. I have a better Sony camera, but it costs more than the entire P4.

'There is no 'MPEG compression artifacts' from any other movements by the drone.
It is something to worry about since the pixelation ruins shots.
The frame by frame examples were to show that it is not always happening.'


Youi will find that there ARE compreassion artifacts produced by the camera, just that you have not seen them yet. A particular example is when youpoint the camera down and flying fast over high detail objects like trees or grass. In fact it mimics the action of the gimbal. This is particularly apparent when shooting North American scenes in winter when the trees have lost their leaves and all you see are lots of fine branches.

You should perhaps read up on the MPEG compression process, the methods used to compress the file are quite complex. But there is nothing wrong with your camera, you need to learn to operate within its limitations.

2017-7-12
Use props
fans3e97c75a
lvl.1
United States
Offline

Geebax Posted at 2017-7-12 15:24
'I've used both the mp4 file recording option and the mov file recording option.
For the source file the examples are from, it was with a mov file.'

Geebax,

I totally agree with all you said.
MP4s vs MOVs are both H264 codec files, with Apple creating the Quicktime preferred wrapper that is the MOV file.
Agreed that it is not the perfect format but it is ideal for price, function, accessibility, mobility, etc...
Sure, there are limitations, which I known very well now. Although DJI should admit these problems publicly instead of blaming the consumer.
I've been told by other users that those artifacts can happen in different circumstances, but for my case at this point it only occurs under the circumstances I have endlessly mentioned.

I've researched MPEG compression in the past, but connected the dots to my issue with the gimbal/camera situation more directly than it being strictly due to the MPEG compression.

Ultimately I agree that the issue is just the way it is, but the frustration currently is mainly from the DJI customer tech service.
For the first contact with service repair, I was told that my drone had a problem and charged me a lot of money to 'fix' since it was out of the 6 month warranty.
The assessment was quoted for bunch of parts not related to the camera/gimbal, I questioned that quote, was told my case would be escalated (2 separate times), not hearing back either time, then was sent a last notice email and told that my quote was 'cheap' as far as repairs go and I should pay it vs having them 'reassess the quote and charge me way more'
Then when I received the drone back, it was a different unit, not my repaired one,
It had the same issue. I contacted DJI about it, they said it must be that specific drone since they've never heard of the issue even though I brought up multiple forum threads.
Then after sending it back again, getting a 3rd drone in return, same issue, now the only option is still to 'send it back in for service repair'
I agree that it is just the way the Phantom 4 is, as well as my Mavic Pro, but horrible customer service experience multiple times, plus being out a lot of money because they incorrectly assessed my issue and basically threatened me to pay or be charged more.
I asked if they could just send it back since their quote didn't match my issue, and I was told that since it was assessed by a technician I had to pay regardless.

I love the drones, and am now well aware that there are limitations to it.
Overall it is a great device that can capture some beautiful shots.
Unfortunately this has been one of the worst experiences with their customer service department than I could have ever imagined it'd be.
2017-7-12
Use props
Geebax
Captain
Australia
Offline

fans3e97c75a Posted at 2017-7-12 18:08
Geebax,

I totally agree with all you said.

Unfortunately, DJI service is a bunch of component jockeys who actually have little to no knowledge of repair of the aircraft. So while I sympathise with what happened to you, it is perfectly consistent with other's experiences.

'I've been told by other users that those artifacts can happen in different circumstances, but for my case at this point it only occurs under the circumstances I have endlessly mentioned.'

There is no connection between the gimbal movement and the problem you mention, it is simply that during movement, the MPEG process codes the images into larger macro-blocks to save file space, and when it comes to a stop, it reverts to an almost zero compression state.
2017-7-12
Use props
fans3e97c75a
lvl.1
United States
Offline

Geebax Posted at 2017-7-12 18:37
Unfortunately, DJI service is a bunch of component jockeys who actually have little to no knowledge of repair of the aircraft. So while I sympathise with what happened to you, it is perfectly consistent with other's experiences.

'I've been told by other users that those artifacts can happen in different circumstances, but for my case at this point it only occurs under the circumstances I have endlessly mentioned.'

Agreed with the MPEG compression issues. I'll test out other movements but for the most part, to have usable shots, I'll continue to avoid the situations where I know the digital artifacts will be apparent.
That's something I resolved to myself when I had the same issue on the 2nd drone.

Unfortunately DJI service has been terrible in dealing with this. At this point, the last 2 calls in 1 day ended up with being mysteriously disconnected (cough* Hung up on*) and then no response via emails since.

Hopefully something good will come of this but so far it hasn't and with the track record they have shown to provide, I doubt they will come through and compensate the months with no drone, the money they incorrectly made me pay, etc...

Geebax,
At least you get it. Appreciate the written info.
2017-7-14
Use props
fans3e97c75a
lvl.1
United States
Offline

DJI Mindy Posted at 2017-7-12 00:52
We understand how you feel and apologize for the unpleasant experience with our product and customer service.
Could you happen to leave me with the previous case number? And upload several original pictures to Dropbox or Google driver? I will feedback your concern to our engineer for analysis, thank you in advance.

Mindy,
Checking in with DJI once again.
I have not heard back from DJI at all from last post.
I expected someone to contact me.
Please email me directly via the email associated with my case number if direct contact preferred.
Thanks.
2017-7-17
Use props
DJI Mindy
Administrator
Flight distance : 7 ft
  • >>>
Offline

fans3e97c75a Posted at 2017-7-17 08:23
Mindy,
Checking in with DJI once again.
I have not heard back from DJI at all from last post.

I'm so sorry that I fail to reply to your message in time because of holiday. I have forwarded your issue to our engineer for analysis, I will keep you updated once I hear from them, appreciate your patience.
2017-7-18
Use props
DJI_camera
lvl.2

Hong Kong
Offline

Dear customer,

This is DJI R&D team. Your problem looks very likely a known issue. On Phantom 4 the pixelation is caused by the limitation of the performance of the semiconductor chip used in our camera. When you shoot a drastically changing and complex scene with 3D noise reduction enabled (which is default), the camera reaches a limitation of chip performance which could cause the video quality to degrade.

We are sorry to say that the only two solutions available are either (1) turning off the 3D noise reduction feature using the App, or (2) avoid shooting fast-changing scene with a lot of detailed texture. Complex changing scenes are difficult to process and encode on any motion-based processor or codec. The 3D noise reduction is an advanced feature which gives you much cleaner video at high ISO, but can be disabled at low ISO in which the noise is not critical.

We suggest you to try turning off the 3D noise reduction on Phantom 4 and see if it helps.

Finally, fortunately, on the Phantom 4 Pro which features upgraded hardware with significant performance boost, such problem is greatly alleviated.
2017-7-18
Use props
fans3e97c75a
lvl.1
United States
Offline

DJI Mindy Posted at 2017-7-18 00:14
I'm so sorry that I fail to reply to your message in time because of holiday. I have forwarded your issue to our engineer for analysis, I will keep you updated once I hear from them, appreciate your patience.

No problem Mindy.
Thanks for the reply.
Please let me know when you hear back.
Thanks
2017-7-19
Use props
fans3e97c75a
lvl.1
United States
Offline

charlesetischer Posted at 2017-7-18 23:58
Dear customer,

This is DJI R&D team. Your problem looks very likely a known issue. On Phantom 4 the pixelation is caused by the limitation of the performance of the semiconductor chip used in our camera. When you shoot a drastically changing and complex scene with 3D noise reduction enabled (which is default), the camera reaches a limitation of chip performance which could cause the video quality to degrade.

charlesetischer,
Thanks for the reply. I had done tests with the 3D noise reduction on and off and the issue was consistent throughout.
I accepted the limits that the pixelation issue caused, since now after many units having the same problem, I am aware that I just need to work around it.
I greatly appreciate you acknowledging that this is a known issue. I have spent months working with DJI service repair being told that it was not a known issue and it was isolated to the 4 units that I had.
Which is why I became increasingly frustrated after having to pay to 'fix' my drone only to receive another unit with the exact same issue. That repeated multiple times.
At this point, I think it would be fair for DJI to refund me the money charged for the repairs since it was never a repairable issue, and now being told that it was a known issue.
The case numbers associated with my issue are earlier in this thread.
Let me know if you need any of other information.
Thanks.
2017-7-19
Use props
DJI Mindy
Administrator
Flight distance : 7 ft
  • >>>
Offline

fans3e97c75a Posted at 2017-7-19 06:24
charlesetischer,
Thanks for the reply. I had done tests with the 3D noise reduction on and off and the issue was consistent throughout.
I accepted the limits that the pixelation issue caused, since now after many units having the same problem, I am aware that I just need to work around it.

Our R&D team can only help with the technical issues, if you do would like a refund, I will forward your request to local appropriate team for further approval and resolution. I'm not sure if your request will be approved because the refund can only be applied within 7 calendar days of receiving.
We will have someone to contact you after review, thank you for your patience.
2017-7-20
Use props
fans3e97c75a
lvl.1
United States
Offline

DJI Mindy Posted at 2017-7-20 01:11
Our R&D team can only help with the technical issues, if you do would like a refund, I will forward your request to local appropriate team for further approval and resolution. I'm not sure if your request will be approved because the refund can only be applied within 7 calendar days of receiving.
We will have someone to contact you after review, thank you for your patience.

Mindy,
At this point all signs point to me not getting back the money I was charged for an issue that was not fixable/quoted for parts and labor that I should not have been ever charged.

When I spoke to the DJI representative, Oscar, back in May, I was told that I would get a battery and set of propellers as a consolation for the inconvenience of having to send in my drone multiple times.
I was never sent what was promised to me.

I think that DJI in some good faith, since I was charged for something that I never should have been billed for, and at this point has been acknowledged by the company as an non-fixable issue, then I at least should be compensated.
Please contact me via email to have a direct line of communication so we can work this out.
My email is associated with my case number I provided earlier.
Thank you.
2017-7-20
Use props
DJI Mindy
Administrator
Flight distance : 7 ft
  • >>>
Offline

fans3e97c75a Posted at 2017-7-20 15:33
Mindy,
At this point all signs point to me not getting back the money I was charged for an issue that was not fixable/quoted for parts and labor that I should not have been ever charged.

I'm so sorry that the refund wasn't approved.
I have informed my colleague who is in charge of your issue to contact you by email about the details of the compensation. Appreciate your patience.
2017-7-23
Use props
KrisMinnear
lvl.3
Flight distance : 6428340 ft
  • >>>
United States
Offline

I have similar issues when tilting the gimbal--especially on bright sunny days.  Using ND filters to get the shutter speed down to no faster than twice the frame rate seems to help, but it never totally eliminates it.  The Phantom 4 Pro might not have this issue due to the mechanical shutter.
2017-7-23
Use props
Advanced
You need to log in before you can reply Login | Register now

Credit Rules