Hi Everyone,
I am just checking here if anyone is in the same shoes as me. If I interpreted something wrong with these regulations please correct me. If you are in the same shoe please comment so we can figure out the next path for us in the drone world

So next year I wanted to buy a Mini 4 Pro but with these new limitations as everyone is aware if I buy it next year I won't be able to fly in the specific category (with operational authorization of course, as I live in an area with lots of restricted geo zones) as it will be C0 (and also limited to 120m from take off point forever making it navigating mountainous areas difficult)
If I buy the drone this year and declassify it that might solve the problem, however if I lose the drone or destroy it (not really planning to) and get a replacement from DJI Care I will receive a C0 replacement, hence limitations are back and that cannot be unlocked (I know there are hacked FWs but I don't care about those).
Someone mentioned that if I declassify the drone now DJI will classify it again next year to C1 (how is that even possible?) so making it possible to fly in specific category but still if I get a new one that will be C0 again and the ability to fly in specific category is gone forever.

I really wanted to get this drone as I usually carry 2 cameras and lenses so my bag is already heavy.

The Mavic series is a bit expensive, I cannot really justify that. The Air 3 is maybe the closest to the Mini 4 Pro in price and as where I live usually there are winds probably Air 3 would be even better.


So what now? Is there anyone trying to decide on the same?


Thanks,
N

Using a C0 drone does not prevent you from operating in a specific category.  It's up to you to choose the right PDRA and carry out your risk mitigation correctly.

LV_Forestry Posted at 12-3 05:07
Using a C0 drone does not prevent you from operating in a specific category.  It's up to you to choose the right PDRA and carry out your risk mitigation correctly.

Oh wow yeah I guess I missed something as I have not checked PDRAs in details. I will do more research now. Thanks for pointing this out!

nn2 Posted at 12-3 05:15
Oh wow yeah I guess I missed something as I have not checked PDRAs in details. I will do more research now. Thanks for pointing this out!

After 2024/01 the procedure is simplified for :
STS01 -> with drone C5
STS02 -> with drone C6

For all other case of use it exist PDRA S01 S02 G01 G02 G03

If you have a particular situation which doesnt suit to any PDRA, it remains SORA.

In PDRA requests it is regularly mentioned that the RC and the drone are “C2”. Please note, this does not mean that a C2 marking is required.
This C2 is the abbreviation for the direct connection between the drone and its radio control.

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal- ... 947-20220404#tocId4

(26)

‘command unit’ (‘CU’) means the equipment or system of equipment to control unmanned aircraft remotely as defined in point 32 of Article 3 of Regulation (EU) 2018/1139 which supports the control or the monitoring of the unmanned aircraft during any phase of flight, with the exception of any infrastructure supporting the command and control (C2) link service;

(27)
‘C2 link service’ means a communication service supplied by a third party, providing command and control between the unmanned aircraft and the CU;

Hi there. Thank you for reaching out. Regulations require that all drones purchased after January 1, 2024, will carry a non-removable mandatory category identification label. There is no mandatory requirement for DJI Mini 4 Pro purchased before 2024. Thank you for your valued support.

DJI Paladin Posted at 12-4 01:30
Hi there. Thank you for reaching out. Regulations require that all drones purchased after  January 1, 2024, will carry a non-removable mandatory category identification label. There is no mandatory requirement for DJI Mini 4 Pro purchased before 2024. Thank you for your valued support.

Thanks, just wondering if you can confirm if we declassify it now, and next year we classify it back to C1, what happens if I need to do a Care Refresh? Will the new drone also declassified and we can make it C1 again?

I think I saw somewhere, if a decalcified drone is care refreshed, the new one will be also declassified. I'm sticking to this post, cause I've ordered my new mini 4 pro earlier today, exactly to have it and declassify it before 01.01.2024  

travelmate Posted at 12-4 04:58
I think I saw somewhere, if a decalcified drone is care refreshed, the new one will be also declassified. I'm sticking to this post, cause I've ordered my new mini 4 pro earlier today, exactly to have it and declassify it before 01.01.2024

Just received some responses from DJI support regarding the declassification and if it will be possible re-classify it to C1.

Here is the response:
"Starting from January 1, 2024, if you choose not to apply for the removal of the 120 m height restriction and wish to retain the C0 label, you will be presented with the following scenarios:
1. For those ones who has removed the C0 label in 2023, there is no chance to have C0/C1 label any more, and there will be no 120m altitude limitation afterwards (still can fly up to 500m). No mandatory requirement for such scenario after 2024.

2. For those ones who does not remove the C0 label in 2023, there will be chances to keep the C0 label with the 120m altitude restriction, and chances to apply for C1 label after 2024 (while the procedure to be confirmed).

3. For those ones who purchase in 2024, there will be non-removable mandatory category identification label."

Also regarding the care refresh if you want to care refresh a declassified drone next year:
"From 2024, the drone will not be with C0. Therefore, the replacement via DJI Care Refresh will be a drone without C0."

nn2 Posted at 12-4 06:24
Just received some responses from DJI support regarding the declassification and if it will be possible re-classify it to C1.

Here is the response:

I wish a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to all those who declassified their C0 drone in 2023 while hoping to be able to reclassify it C1 as was potentially promised in the disclaimer of the declassification form.  

Another big mistake from DJI.

LV_Forestry Posted at 12-4 06:45
I wish a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to all those who declassified their C0 drone in 2023 while hoping to be able to reclassify it C1 as was potentially promised in the disclaimer of the declassification form.  

Another big mistake from DJI.

Yes but from their responses it seems they don't really know yet or they don't want to give us exact answers, looks like they are just figuring this out. They use "chances" everywhere in their response so they are really careful how they respond so who knows what will happen.

So now I would either buy it now and wait what will happen next year if they provide the option to classify it to C1, which is risky or get the Air 3 next year or whenever I want. Not sure :\

nn2 Posted at 12-4 06:58
Yes but from their responses it seems they don't really know yet or they don't want to give us exact answers, looks like they are just figuring this out. They use "chances" everywhere in their response so they are really careful how they respond so who knows what will happen.

So now I would either buy it now and wait what will happen next year if they provide the option to classify it to C1, which is risky or get the Air 3 next year or whenever I want. Not sure :\

From what I understand from the disclaimer, if you remove the C0 label by 2024 without waiting for getting a C1 label, then your drone would not be able to fly in "Open" category and will require some PDRA or LUC or whatever else to be able to fly in the Specific category.

Basically, for 99% of use who just use our drone personally, we can just ask to unlabel the drone before end of 2023, that's it (and which I've done it, awaiting DJI to give me a way to label my drone with C1 later in the year like they said in the disclaimer, even if the reqs said something else)

Pahtath Posted at 12-4 09:13
From what I understand from the disclaimer, if you remove the C0 label by 2024 without waiting for getting a C1 label, then your drone would not be able to fly in "Open" category and will require some PDRA or LUC or whatever else to be able to fly in the Specific category.

Basically, for 99% of use who just use our drone personally, we can just ask to unlabel the drone before end of 2023, that's it (and which I've done it, awaiting DJI to give me a way to label my drone with C1 later in the year like they said in the disclaimer, even if the reqs said something else)

After 01/2024 you will still be able to use a drone without C label, in open category A3.

PDRA is not a category, it is a document which is used to assess the risks for flights in a specific scenario.

As usual DJI has still no idea what to do and what will be done. Anyway, I will declasify mine and I'm sure in the next few years the authorities will still control the 249gr mark. A1/A3 I don't care, I have a valid certificate

nn2 Posted at 12-4 01:37
Thanks, just wondering if you can confirm if we declassify it now, and next year we classify it back to C1, what happens if I need to do a Care Refresh? Will the new drone also declassified and we can make it C1 again?

Hi there. For DJI Mini 4 pro, which has already applied for the removal of the 120m height limit in 2023, there will no longer be a mandatory label requirement after 2024, and you can still fly the drone up to 500m, so there is no need to apply for a C1(C0) label and the C1(C0) application is not supported. Thank you for your understanding.

I will only clarify that at least in the EU it will be possible to set a flight limit above 120m, but it will only be legal to fly up to 120m altitude (in the OPEN category) and it will still be necessary to have at least an A1/A3 license - it is not possible to legally fly a drone completely without a license (unless the drone is directly labeled by the manufacturer as a children's toy, which DJI products are not). In that aspect, it doesn't matter if the drone will have a C0 label or not.

But I will ask also in this thread, if the declassification is done officially and the drone will be without the C0 label (and if it is technically done, hopefully the complications are not intentional on DJI's part..), will it be possible to download newer FW and updates for RC2 and the drone?

Jan Spacil Posted at 12-5 23:26
I will only clarify that at least in the EU it will be possible to set a flight limit above 120m, but it will only be legal to fly up to 120m altitude (in the OPEN category) and it will still be necessary to have at least an A1/A3 license - it is not possible to legally fly a drone completely without a license (unless the drone is directly labeled by the manufacturer as a children's toy, which DJI products are not). In that aspect, it doesn't matter if the drone will have a C0 label or not.

But I will ask also in this thread, if the declassification is done officially and the drone will be without the C0 label (and if it is technically done, hopefully the complications are not intentional on DJI's part..), will it be possible to download newer FW and updates for RC2 and the drone?

This is not correct.  C0 does not require taking the A1/A3 online exam.  It is simply obligatory to register as a remote pilot.

And it is possible to fly up to 120m AGL, so potentially more than 120m from the take off point.

I have no idea what the rules are for your state, but in CR/EU the rules are pretty clear since the beginning of this year.

You are correct in that only registration is required for a drone operator. However, this does not apply to the drone pilot. A drone in the C0 category has to fly under A1 rules and therefore in order to fly (except indoor operations) the pilot has to pass an online test.
Often of course both the operator and the pilot are the same person, so then it doesn't really matter, but the online test is required to be allowed to fly in A1/A3.
The rules in CR are IMHO the same for the whole of the EU (EASA), but there may be local exceptions, I don't know.
And you're right about AGL, it doesn't depend on homepoint, but on the terrain profile, here the 120m limit set in RC2 may be incorrect. If I understand it right, the altitude is not determined by the GPS in the drone, but by the pilot's position with RC2.

Jan Spacil Posted at 12-6 01:03
I have no idea what the rules are for your state, but in CR/EU the rules are pretty clear since the beginning of this year.

You are correct in that only registration is required for a drone operator. However, this does not apply to the drone pilot. A drone in the C0 category has to fly under A1 rules and therefore in order to fly (except indoor operations) the pilot has to pass an online test.

It is very painful to have people who read the texts across, interpret them, and spread false information.

I recommend that you read UAS.OPEN.020 4)b) 2019-947. It is clearly stated that for C1 the remote pilot is required to have passed the A1/A3 online exam. Not for C0.EUR-Lex - 32019R0947 - EN - EUR-Lex (europa.eu)

The C0 category was created for these reasons, for people who do not want to embarrass themselves / cannot take an exam.

Jan Spacil Posted at 12-6 01:03
I have no idea what the rules are for your state, but in CR/EU the rules are pretty clear since the beginning of this year.

You are correct in that only registration is required for a drone operator. However, this does not apply to the drone pilot. A drone in the C0 category has to fly under A1 rules and therefore in order to fly (except indoor operations) the pilot has to pass an online test.

Once again, I don't know where you got your drawing from, but it's imprecise. 15m above a structure higher than 105m ok, but with the authorization of the structure manager. It's not freelance!

UAS.OPEN.010 3) 2019-947

I am still unable to decide if I should buy the Mini 4 now, declassify it or wait for next year to make it C1 or not to buy it at all. Anyway with these small drones there is not too much chance flying in specific category as the rules are too strict regarding the drone specifications.
Maybe I will just wait for next year to see what happens and buy something, maybe DJI will come up with some new ideas/drones.

nn2 Posted at 12-6 04:33
I am still unable to decide if I should buy the Mini 4 now, declassify it or wait for next year to make it C1 or not to buy it at all. Anyway with these small drones there is not too much chance flying in specific category as the rules are too strict regarding the drone specifications.
Maybe I will just wait for next year to see what happens and buy something, maybe DJI will come up with some new ideas/drones.

To buy a drone you need to ask the right questions.  What do you want to do with it?  In what environment?  why specific?  ...

LV_Forestry Posted at 12-6 04:58
To buy a drone you need to ask the right questions.  What do you want to do with it?  In what environment?  why specific?  ...

My whole city is covered with an ATC geo zone due to the international airport. So to fly a bit higher as allowed in open category I would need specific category, but I just learned that these drones won't fit into any specific categories as for STS you need C5 and C6 and for PDRA 1 and 2 you need FTS. other PDRAs also won't really apply as those are BVLOS and SORA is just pain So I will just wait for next year and see what the future holds, I am not in a rush.

nn2 Posted at 12-6 05:11
My whole city is covered with an ATC geo zone due to the international airport. So to fly a bit higher as allowed in open category I would need specific category, but I just learned that these drones won't fit into any specific categories as for STS you need C5 and C6 and for PDRA 1 and 2 you need FTS. other PDRAs also won't really apply as those are BVLOS and SORA is just pain  So I will just wait for next year and see what the future holds, I am not in a rush.

You're mixing everything up a bit.  
I understand that you do want to do recreational flight, nearly zero chance of accessing the specific category for non-professional reasons.

LV_Forestry Posted at 12-6 06:31
You're mixing everything up a bit.  
I understand that you do want to do recreational flight, nearly zero chance of accessing the specific category for non-professional reasons.

You are correct. I just want to fly legally but due to the above mentioned reasons it won't be possible with these small drones. The closest is the Mavic 3 Pro or Classic with a certified FTS to achieve what I wanted here in one of the PDRAs. In any other cases I left with open category but I need more height in some cases to get the shot I want.

nn2 Posted at 12-6 06:45
You are correct. I just want to fly legally but due to the above mentioned reasons it won't be possible with these small drones. The closest is the Mavic 3 Pro or Classic with a certified FTS to achieve what I wanted here in one of the PDRAs. In any other cases I left with open category but I need more height in some cases to get the shot I want.

In summary, what you would like to do is VLOS, beyond the altitude limit imposed by the open category, in populated area. In fact, what corresponds is STS01.

Concerning the FTS, yes it is an obligation for drones labeled C5 and C6 allowing access to STS01 and STS02. These are scenarios defined by 2019-947.

However, PDRA is made for all other use cases with drones not labeled C. Theoretically, the technical requirements are the same as those imposed for obtaining the label, but requests are studied on a case-by-case basis. This consists of a study of the measures taken to reduce the risk. At the end we obtain a score which determines at which level the decision must be taken.

I have never done the test but a C0 drone in PDRA S01, if the altitude request remains reasonable, it would potentially be acceptable. You have to ask the CAA. I am absolutely not up to date on the procedures in populated areas.

LV_Forestry Posted at 12-6 09:24
In summary, what you would like to do is VLOS, beyond the altitude limit imposed by the open category, in populated area. In fact, what corresponds is STS01.

Concerning the FTS, yes it is an obligation for drones labeled C5 and C6 allowing access to STS01 and STS02. These are scenarios defined by 2019-947.

Unfortunately non of what you say would work. STS requires C5 or C6 drone, PDRA 1 and 2 requires a certified FTS and you can find a certified FTS only for the Mavics I mentioned. Other PDRA's are BVLOS, hence won't work as well. So currently it seems there is no way anyone can fly in specific category with the Mini 4 or even Air 3 or anything like that.

nn2 Posted at 12-6 09:33
Unfortunately non of what you say would work. STS requires C5 or C6 drone, PDRA 1 and 2 requires a certified FTS and you can find a certified FTS only for the Mavics I mentioned. Other PDRA's are BVLOS, hence won't work as well. So currently it seems there is no way anyone can fly in specific category with the Mini 4 or even Air 3 or anything like that.

"PDRA 1 and 2 requires a certified FTS"

Not sure ! ask CAA

LV_Forestry Posted at 12-6 10:18
"PDRA 1 and 2 requires a certified FTS"

Not sure ! ask CAA

Please read PDRA-S01 for example:
https://www.easa.europa.eu/en/downloads/137221/en

Point 6.1 and 6.2 technical conditions of the UAS, where the mentioned "Part 16 of the Annex to Regulation (EU) 2019/945." is here, check point 5 a/b/c:
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal- ... 1911929399#tocId421

Essentially it means you need a drone which is C5 or equivalent without a C label but have the FTS as it still needs to comply with Part 16 of the Annex.

nn2 Posted at 12-6 17:35
Please read PDRA-S01 for example:
https://www.easa.europa.eu/en/downloads/137221/en

Again no. Nowhere is written that FTS is mandatory. Outside of C5 C6. I already wrote that each request are studied case by case.

@LV_Forestry: thanks for the clarification, there is still a lot of confusion there for many people. I was talking a few weeks ago with the CAA (Civil Aviation Authority) about the information I wrote here, and as it's generally presented in our country - pilots can only fly a drone (that isn't a toy) with a certification. As I can see now, that's not for C0 class quite correct.

The picture is quite clear, I only had the Czech version with the correct description. It's just a pity that it's not drawn differently, with the pilot not at the highest point but somewhere lower. Only then it would be a bit clearer.

I have also read again the translated version of the EATA eRules, as far as my LL.M. education allows me to understand the rules correctly, indeed an A1/A3 online exam is not required to fly a drone officially marked C0. But given the exam difficulty, everyone should take it anyway .

N, you're not alone! Declassifying your Mini 4 Pro now might not be the best solution, as DJI's actions are unclear. Consider the Air 3 instead, it might be better for your windy environment and heavier gear.

warnersmith323 Posted at 12-10 19:50
N, you're not alone! Declassifying your Mini 4 Pro now might not be the best solution, as DJI's actions are unclear. Consider the Air 3 instead, it might be better for your windy environment and heavier gear.

Hi, yeah I spent a couple of weeks researching the current situation and laws, etc and decided to postpone my drone adventures and I will see what happens next year. Need to see how DJI will decide, maybe they will have some new drones as well, but definitely the Air 3 would be a better solution for me if I would have to choose now. Even though the Mini would be better for weight, the Air 3 provides an additional camera and better wind handling. Also if I travel to the USA I probably would have better luck flying the Mini there but to be honest I have not fully checked the current rules there. So let's see what happens next year. I will keep monitoring the situation so hopefully everyone will have a positive outcome regardless how they decide.

Like the OP I was also considering buying the Mini 4 Pro sometime next year. I've had a hard time getting a clear answer about the declassification and I am a little overloaded with information as most threads on the topic have people disagreeing with each other.

Can anyone confirm that if I buy a Mini 4 Pro next year in 2024 in the UK will I be able to remove the mandatoy 120m height restriction?

Many thanks

warnersmith323 Posted at 12-10 19:50
N, you're not alone! Declassifying your Mini 4 Pro now might not be the best solution, as DJI's actions are unclear. Consider the Air 3 instead, it might be better for your windy environment and heavier gear.

It would probably be ideal to have both M4P and Air3 available, unfortunately it's a matter of price and life priorities :]

I have already bought the M4P, one of the reasons for buying it later this year was the announced changes for next year. The other is the minimal GRC/ARC, I'm not an experienced pilot and flying a drone with an A1/A3+A2 license is just a hobby.
I'll see what the situation is in the next few years, maybe I'll buy an Air3 in the future (if a non RC2 purchase is possible)..
@djiuser_nQ23cCE9Qq0v: If the rules for flying drones in the UK are the same as in the EU, it will almost certainly be impossible to remove this limit and generally fly a drone above 120m/400ft.

djiuser_nQ23cCE9Qq0v Posted at 12-11 12:06
Like the OP I was also considering buying the Mini 4 Pro sometime next year. I've had a hard time getting a clear answer about the declassification and I am a little overloaded with information as most threads on the topic have people disagreeing with each other.

Can anyone confirm that if I buy a Mini 4 Pro next year in 2024 in the UK will I be able to remove the mandatoy 120m height restriction?

Try to get in touch with DJI over their chat support page, that is where we got the above information. Only they can say anything about it unfortunately. I see a small "chance" to have a drone similar to the Mini 4 size and weigh with C1 label without the limit next year, but this is just my own vision as with the limits nobody will buy these drones anymore, at least for a lot of people it will be a no-go. This is why I am waiting with buying the Mini 4 at the moment and not rushing it.

Personally, I think if your in an area with a lot of mountains,  it would be difficult to navigate with that type of drone, I reccomend getting a smaller drone.

Hi, after declassifying the drone, will the software have restrictions in allowing it to take off in cities and urban areas?

There is a lot of chatter about declassifying or not the Min4Pro

I will be in Europe before the end of this month, one of my jobs will be to declassify my Mini4Pro, what will change, I will be able to set maximum height to > 120m < 500m, enabling me to fly up the side or up the crevice of tall mountains legally as long as its always within 120m of the earth in Europe, just as I can in UK.

So my Mini4pro will be just like my Mini3pro, both none classified (no labels) both below 250g. Both bought before 01/01/24 and able legally fly in A1.

Happy days, just fortunate that I am going to Europe before 01/01/24.

Hi everyone, thanks for the insightful discussion . As with all new policies, it's understandable that interpretations and applications are still evolving.  For those of us just wanting to fly recreationally, the lack of clarity can be frustrating. While getting the Mini 4 Pro now and declassifying allows flying without the 120m limit presently, the uncertainty around reclassification or replacements is a risk.  Perhaps the most prudent path is to wait and see what emerges in the new year. Hopefully the regulators and DJI provide pilots with straightforward options to stay legal at higher altitudes, even with smaller drones. In the meantime, enjoying drone flying within the Open category is still possible as see on https://roflen.com/la-reglementation-des-drones-en-europe-2023/ .