Alright I thought power lines didn't have much to do with it. The amount of houses makes sense so the wifi routers run on the same frequency as the transmitter. Otherwise I don't know what else it could be.

Wow that's interesting to know. The worse spot for me or when I get a bad signal the most is  when I'm a street from an intersection of two main roads where I flew over a few stores and a dozen houses.

WayOutWoodPond Posted at 2017-2-23 07:40
Thanks Dave - good call. I wear an Apple Watch so will put that in Airplane mode too next time I go out.

Try taking off your Apple Watch and then do a compass calibration outdoors. Apple watch is known to cause interference with the drones compass.

greglegend Posted at 2017-2-23 17:50
Hi everyone, looking for some clarity. I have had my P3S for 2 months and have some great flights. In the past few weeks I've been getting weak transmitter signals randomly. I fly 500ft away and get weak signal and can only fly about 200ft high before getting weak signal. I don't know why I can only fly that high. I am flying in my suburban neighborhood and have some good footage but don't know why I can't fly more than 500ft away. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Tyler

If you watch to fly high, you also need to fly the drone at a horizontal distance (not just hovering over your head)

Just to clarify for Mark.

Same freq, same channel, - yes of course they interfere.

Go back and read my reply to you please.

2.4 and 5.8 as we are concerned with here are RC and WiFI freq RANGES  not single slot transmissions.  If I remember rightly a certain Actress back in the late 1940's or early 50's came up with the idea of frequency hopping. Clever lass realized that you could have hundreds of radios working on a narrow band if they all hopped around slots in that band. The RX would listen for the signal that had the correct ID code set at start of the data string. The data set was transmitted thousands of times a second so even if another signal hit same slot - the Rx could pick up next data string.

This has provided the RC world with one of the greatest changes of all - the ability to have literally hundreds of radios working at same time on a narrow freq band.

WiFi funnily enough works in a similar way, you lock your PC / phone / tablet to the router by an identifier .... that is automatic even in an open system. We of course have additional step of 'password' key to prevent others locking on to our router.

The systems allow airports to have WiFi for all the people ... allows you to have multi connection in the home ....

Now which format of freq use DJI uses is not specified - would be nice to know. But it basically is based on this principle.

That is why DJI in the specs don't state a specific freq slot or channel on the controller / aircraft - as you would find in for example FM / AM older radio gear. There is no need.

RC examples of this principle ....

Spektrum used to use two slots to hop between. That then then got updated to more than 16 ... actual number I'm not sure of npbut was needed to improve Spektrums connectivity.
FrSky use up to 116 slots ! In the 2.4 freq allocation giving virtually interference free use.

At the end of the day - the only way to kill of another radios connection in these freq's is to swamp the entire range with continuous signal.

Sorry Mark - not trying to be smart or abrasive - just passing on information. In fact my original comment you took badly and started all this - was literally just a short line statement and not abrasive. But you did then insult me which was unnecessary.

Let's kiss and make up ....

Nigel

DJI-Thor Posted at 2017-2-23 22:15
Try taking off your Apple Watch and then do a compass calibration outdoors. Apple watch is known to cause interference with the drones compass.

DJI-Thor, would bad compass calibration really cause lack of range?

I can understand if the watch caused interference on the wi-fi, but range?

WayOutWoodPond Posted at 2017-2-24 00:08
DJI-Thor, would bad compass calibration really cause lack of range?

I can understand if the watch caused interference on the wi-fi, but range?

No, it wouldn't affect range.

Sorry I didn't read it carefully, I thought you were saying magnetic interference or compass issue.

greglegend Posted at 2017-2-23 18:40
Yeah maybe not sure at all. I'll have to fly it in a field next for sure. Do power lines or the amount of houses in between have anything to do with the signal because I'm only about a street or two away from where I take off.

Yes they can ...

Power lines especially the Ultra High power lines that feed whole towns can emit stray RF and all sorts of energy. Even to the familiar hum sound at times. Its not unsual for radio comms such as Walkie Talkies ... and others to have problems near these. But normal household low power lines are generally no problem.For the Ultra High Tension lines supplying towns - you shouldn't be flying near them anayway !! In fact shouldn't be flying near any lines !!

All high freq RF such as 2.4 and 5.8 are affected by structures between Tx and Rx .. even a chain link fence can seriously degrade a connection - I demo this to people occasionally ....
These freq's are Line of Sight freq's unlike the older FM / AM we had before which were far more tolerant of trees and buildings etc.

I have a boosted WiFi in my house ... as I need WiFi down at the river for my boats ... I like to sit down there sunning with a beer and do my work / upset forums and its quite a distance that normal router doesn't even get near to ... it has no effect on my P3S ...
But can be a pain sometimes when down in the garden well away from house ... as the WiFi beats the P3S and I have to quite often disconnect and reconnect to P3S.

Nigel

solentlife Posted at 2017-2-23 23:09
Just to clarify for Mark.

Same freq, same channel, - yes of course they interfere.

If one 5.8 DJI transmitter is shooting out a control signal..

and another 5.8 DJI transmitter is shooting out a control signal...

Neither one knows the other exists.  There's no fancy "hopping" around to avoid each other.  

Therefore, if they're on the same freq, same polarity, and same location, they will interfere with each other and cause range problems.  

IMO the power lines are nothing to be overly concerned with.  Yes, the certainly emit RF pollution - and if you have an EMF meter you can see it on the meter even from a hundred yards away or so.  I wouldn't want to stand near them and fly, but I have flown over them countless times, often low and close to them, and nothing ever happens.  I regard them kind of like the KP Index.  Technically we should all be terrified, but in reality and in experience, nothing ever happens.  

Cell towers are a different story, however.  I would stay away.

MHO

Mark The Droner Posted at 2017-2-24 03:31
If one 5.8 DJI transmitter is shooting out a control signal..

and another 5.8 DJI transmitter is shooting out a control signal...

Can someone else please drop in here and explain to him about Frequency Hopping ... Interference rejection on WiFi / RC frequency range ?

Cause I give up trying to get through ..

Mark - they are not shooting out on a single fixed frequency slot ... if they were - we would all need to have Frequency banners to say which slot we are using - like the old days and only ONE fly at a time on that slot.
The system hops slots within a band of the frequency with an ID code at start of data set so the Rx listening to the band identifies correct Tx.
It two or more Tx's hit that same slot - the data set and tranmission is corrupted and rejected by the Rx .. it waits for next data set which is on a different slot and ideally the other Tx has hopped to a different slot from that ... Rx receives clean data set and executes command.

I don't doubt your credentials as Radio etc. - but PLEASE Mark - stop giving me hassle and a quick google on Frequency Hopping will be time spent better than arguing with 'abrasive a*****e' me ...

Nigel

solentlife Posted at 2017-2-24 04:56
Can someone else please drop in here and explain to him about Frequency Hopping ... Interference rejection on WiFi / RC frequency range ?

Cause I give up trying to get through ..

You've repeatedly ignored this thread/link which I posted some time ago:  http://forum.dji.com/thread-84336-1-1.html

Mark The Droner Posted at 2017-2-24 04:59
You've repeatedly ignored this thread/link which I posted some time ago:  http://forum.dji.com/thread-84336-1-1.html

For the simple reason - forgive my 'french' ... its a crock !!

There's something else going on there and DJI Tech need to answer that instead.

And anyway - YOU accused me of being wrong on 5.8 ... Pro uses Lightbridge on 2.4 which is NOT same as WiFi or RC standards .... as to the format and construction of the Lightbridge 2.4 - DJI choose not to divulge for CR reasons.

AND I can add that we have at least 3 Pro machines in our club that regularly fly along side each other as well as Advanced ones  all on Lightbridge ... never any trouble,

I was avoiding the link for the very reason it has no value on this discussion - but you called me out ... so now I call you out to check out Hopping and Interference Rejection with 2,4 and 5.8Ghz ...

Oh and  .. mines a Guinness !!

Nigel

I'll definitely try flying it higher but at a greater distance from me instead of over me. I fly 100ft over power lines so I don't think thats my problem.

Flying overhead is a no-no ... you have both RC and AC antennas in the worst possible attitude to each other .... even if you push RC antenna flat ... the AC antenna are still at worst angle.

We all fly overhead at times ... but I know when I do it .. I am watching for it to lose contact ... and I have her 'flying through' as quickly as possible ...

Nigel

It's a crock?  Good retort.

I can find no evidence that DJI uses or used "hopping" on it's 5.8 control signal for the P3S.  

I am posting this link not to be smart or abrasive but think it may help to explain how modern High Freq systems such as 2.4 and 5.8Ghz can live together and not 'shoot each other down' as in the old days of FM / AM radios.
The article is about 2.4Ghz systems used in RC - so not exactly what we have here - DJI do not publicise their freq control but it would be silly if they ignored what the world has been using for decades ... . The principle of interference rejection and frequency slots allied to the ID code explains how we can fly more than one model at one time...  I do not say this is exactly what DJI uses ... but I would put money down that its close ... because its the only system that can do what we do.

http://www.rcmodelreviews.com/spreadspectrum01.shtml

Its quite an old article and since written FrSky has revolutionized the whole playing field by producing a newer system that is so bullet proof - other brands such as JR and Spektrum basically had to revise their format.  

I hope it helps and please ... don't shoot the Piano Player ...

Nigel

Mark The Droner Posted at 2017-2-24 09:12
It's a crock?  Good retort.

I can find no evidence that DJI uses or used "hopping" on it's 5.8 control signal for the P3S.

Yes exactly - because such a fault is most likely a fault in the AC or controller itself ....

You are now starting to look at the Freq interference question and not just throwing out comments.

Given that the technology for such Freq control is readily available on the market for peanuts ... it is not expensive and would be well within budget for the P3S - there is no need for DJI to develop alternative.

The fact that they did for Lightbridge is another matter - but look at the price of it as stand-alone !!

But even Lightbridge will need some sort of Spectrum freq system to avoid interference of another model. As I said - we have a number of Pro's and Advanced in the club and they all fly together without any trouble at all ... we have various 5.8 FPV and of course myself and others with P3S ... not to mention the hordes of 2.4 RC radios on a site at any one time ... no problems at all ...

So how can they all live together ? It is not unusual to have 4 or 5 models in the air ... couple of long range FPV's .... maybe 2 or 3 Phantoms as well as Syma and others ...all flying happily around with no problem at all ...

If the Pro's were fixed or not using Freq Spectrum system - then how ? Its just not possible ... they would not be able to fly more than one and with todays  2.4 RC world.

Mark .. world has moved on from the old days of FM and AM flying ...

Nigel

Alright so to be able to fly over 200ft high I should fly it at least 200ft away from me. I have trouble with the transmitter signal at 150ft up and 400ft from me.

greglegend Posted at 2017-2-24 10:02
Alright so to be able to fly over 200ft high I should fly it at least 200ft away from me. I have trouble with the transmitter signal at 150ft up and 400ft from me.

And ?

Sorry ... the matter of being above is a known factor. The matter of lack of range is also a known common factor with the P3S ... many people including myself go through this. We either cure it as I did or replace / move on. The P3S is basically a budget machine that has limitations and appears to suffer variance in quality of electronics ...

Nigel

The world class distance guys generally start out at about 50' height as they move out horizontally.  They keep an eye on the FPV signal, and the moment they see it drop a bit, they move up another 50 feet.  The signal improves.  They keep moving out.  Signal weakens a tad.  Rise 50'.  Signal improves.  Keep going.  etc.... Always aim the controller carefully.  A tripod helps a lot.  

Alright I'll try that for sure thank you for your help and suggestions

Mark The Droner Posted at 2017-2-24 03:37
IMO the power lines are nothing to be overly concerned with.  Yes, the certainly emit RF pollution - and if you have an EMF meter you can see it on the meter even from a hundred yards away or so.  I wouldn't want to stand near them and fly, but I have flown over them countless times, often low and close to them, and nothing ever happens.  I regard them kind of like the KP Index.  Technically we should all be terrified, but in reality and in experience, nothing ever happens.  

Cell towers are a different story, however.  I would stay away.

Probably so Mark, I live a one thousnand feet from a cell tower. I bought phantom 3 standard to fly out of
my back yard, it took me six months to get the courage, but am now flying from the my home,
Litchi missions only.

Ken

solentlife Posted at 2017-2-23 23:09
Just to clarify for Mark.

Same freq, same channel, - yes of course they interfere.

I think you will find Mark is the only person on the forum not reading the information you are accurately posting Nigel! Me, I can't be bothered to reply to him anymore.Seems he was a radio tech in the USN so knows it all {:4_157:}

Mark is on the button there ... as distance increases - you increase altitude to make sure you have best Line of Antenna to Antenna and no obstructions etc.

Today I did another 2000m flight with my P3S. Take-off into a steady flight forward and climb angle so at about 100m - I am about 40m high ... and maintain climb while going out ... at 2000m I was about 130m altitude which is actually lower than I usually go .. most times I am up about 200m high or so.

At the latter part of the flight - I was down to 5 - 9m flying around the frozen river filming the Ice fishing .... that was from about 100m to 200m out from me ... the signals were showing variables as I flew around ... but had good control ... climbing up immediately improved the signal when I decided to come into land.

I have video of this - but its still loading up ...

Nigel

Just wanted to update in case anyone is having similar issues. I decided not to send my P3S back, instead I got an Argtek antenna set. Installed over the weekend and first flight was just a quick hop in my neighbourhood. WOW! What a difference - can't wait to go fully rural and range test it but for the first time today I lost VLOS.

Very happy now.

Incidentally, the antenna connections on the factory installed antennas didn't feel like they were well attached.